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Research Results: Leopard 1


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Ry0ken #21 Posted 29 March 2013 - 03:22 PM

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Ah and Blanchard the next time you get to Germany tell me! Would love to have a closer view to some tank museums to.  :smile:  Or was the research of Leo outside of Germany?

Gaulwa #22 Posted 29 March 2013 - 04:04 PM

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View PostRy0ken, on 29 March 2013 - 03:22 PM, said:

Ah and Blanchard the next time you get to Germany tell me! Would love to have a closer view to some tank museums to.  :smile:  Or was the research of Leo outside of Germany?

Leo was in a museum close to Hamburg.

Ry0ken #23 Posted 29 March 2013 - 05:59 PM

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View PostBlanchard, on 29 March 2013 - 04:04 PM, said:

Leo was in a museum close to Hamburg.
Ah ok. I'm currently located in München/Munich but sometimes visit NRW. So if you strumble accross Bavaria or NRW it's likely I can join.
Btw. do you know this beauty:
https://www.youtube....h?v=QsodIneQGzI
https://www.youtube....h?v=3G31zX_DAns
Maybe we can climb into it to find out details about gun depression/elevation if this part of the tank is functional as well? It's located in Koblenz/Trier I guess.

Edited by Ry0ken, 29 March 2013 - 06:05 PM.


Gaulwa #24 Posted 29 March 2013 - 06:16 PM

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As much as I would love to meet our players, most of my research are confidential until the tank get officially announced.
Leopard 1 research were done last year. I cannot speak of the most recent works in progress, therefore, my travels are not publicly announced.

Ry0ken #25 Posted 29 March 2013 - 07:23 PM

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To bad. But reasonable!  :honoring:

Dead3yez #26 Posted 30 March 2013 - 11:23 PM

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Is the engine petrol or diesel?

Ry0ken #27 Posted 01 April 2013 - 12:14 AM

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View PostDead3yez, on 30 March 2013 - 11:23 PM, said:

Is the engine petrol or diesel?
It is a so called "MTU MB 838 CaM500 10-Zylinder-Vielstoffmotor" which translates to multifuel engine which is run by diesel but can use other fuels to if necessary.

Edit: Early versions of the engine only could use diesel, the ability to use other fuels was introduced later during production because of technical difficulties. So as we got an early version of the Leo1 it probably could use diesel only.

Edited by Ry0ken, 01 April 2013 - 12:33 AM.


Gaulwa #28 Posted 02 April 2013 - 10:41 AM

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despite being able to use all kind fuel in case of necessity, every multifuel engine will get damaged one way or another (or work at reduced output) if you do not feed it its primary fuel.

Ry0ken #29 Posted 09 April 2013 - 03:25 PM

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View PostBlanchard, on 28 March 2013 - 03:47 PM, said:

Right, sorry for not replying earlier. I was not aware of this, and I will forward the information directly to the devs. To be honest, I would be very surprised if the mirrors were to block the cannon.
Just saw that in the newest version of Leo1 the mirrors got changed. Did talking sense to the WoT devs finally work?  :smile:
Then please -8° gun depression for Panther and closed spaced armor doors for PanzerIV next! :honoring:

Edited by Ry0ken, 09 April 2013 - 03:26 PM.


Gaulwa #30 Posted 09 April 2013 - 04:32 PM

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View PostRy0ken, on 09 April 2013 - 03:25 PM, said:

Just saw that in the newest version of Leo1 the mirrors got changed. Did talking sense to the WoT devs finally work?  :smile:

I did report your point about the mirrors.
I can only suppose the devs double-checked it and decided to remove them so they wouldn't clip with the gun.
(See? We are reading and listening to you! :P)

Ry0ken #31 Posted 09 April 2013 - 04:43 PM

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View PostBlanchard, on 09 April 2013 - 04:32 PM, said:

I did report your point about the mirrors.
I can only suppose the devs double-checked it and decided to remove them so they wouldn't clip with the gun.
(See? We are reading and listening to you! :P)
Well you and some other mentionable individuals of mods I had contact with are reading and are listening. (Still less than a hand full.) Thanx a lot u guys are out there and we know your impact is limited!  :honoring:

But the dev HQ is a different story... *cough*anti-German/pro-Soviet sentiment *cough*simply deleted long threads of accurate data&information regarding correct camo jobs for UK/GER-tanks and technical data...  :facepalm:

Never the less thanx for your efforts to those who deserve it!

Harim #32 Posted 17 April 2013 - 05:58 AM

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Hu... this is a great topic, reading an official WG member answering and reacting to questions, really.  :smile:  :smile:  :smile:  :smile:

But... some questions simply remained open... but ok. How about seeing more officials here on this forum, this would be so great.

Gaulwa #33 Posted 17 April 2013 - 10:29 AM

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View PostHarim, on 17 April 2013 - 05:58 AM, said:

Hu... this is a great topic, reading an official WG member answering and reacting to questions, really.  :smile:  :smile:  :smile:  :smile:

But... some questions simply remained open... but ok. How about seeing more officials here on this forum, this would be so great.

I do try to reply to as many questions as possible.
However, since I am not part of the design team, I cannot answer anything about game balance, or in-game mechanics.
All the same, I cannot reveal a number of confidential stuff. (like upcoming patches, tanks planned, specific dates...)


I think I answered everything I could here. Did I forgot something?

Panocek #34 Posted 17 April 2013 - 05:21 PM

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View PostBlanchard, on 17 April 2013 - 10:29 AM, said:

I do try to reply to as many questions as possible.
However, since I am not part of the design team, I cannot answer anything about game balance, or in-game mechanics.
All the same, I cannot reveal a number of confidential stuff. (like upcoming patches, tanks planned, specific dates...)


I think I answered everything I could here. Did I forgot something?

During research couldn't you find any better gun mantle design for Leo?  :tongue:

Harim #35 Posted 17 April 2013 - 07:10 PM

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View PostRy0ken, on 29 March 2013 - 03:16 PM, said:

Thanx in real life where tank combat is more long distance it may not be that crucial. But with the game engine/map design forcing close quarters gun depression is absolutely essential for the German medium tank line because they can not circle the enemy and are forced to fight most enemys including heavy tanks up front. Hull down is a must. It's not that important for the brawlers like T44/T34-2/French because I do not need those few degrees more when I'm at the enemy tanks side or rear and his tank fills the whole screen. Plus T44/T34-2/French are way smaller so depression is not that improtant to them as for the taller Panther tanks. Due to bad agility, insufficient camo value, big silhoutte, weakspots, insufficient frontal armor and so on playing PI/PII is hard enough allready. I always think of the Panther tank as a very tall sniper guy, with a red jacked, no kevlar vest, who can not lower his gun, and has to hit his target between the eyes ten times...  :harp:

Yeah and the Panther also could not turn its turret when it stands on a sideslope of more then +/-5°! But the WG devs have etablished a very nice double standard in my eyes. Everything that "can" be treated in a bad way for the Germans will be implemented, good traits as suspension are not implemented. Same goes for the spaced armor doors of the PzIV - "Hey Heinz let the doors open so Ivan can shot us better!"  :tongue: Why not modell all hatches open on KV tanks to?
While on the other hand the IS tanks had two component round taking immense time to load - yet this is not reflected in the game. Also I would wonder about the loading capability in those crammed T44/54 turrets, can they load at any angle? Has anyone looked at crew exhaustion due to working in extremely limited room? I also bet Russian tanks had several flaws that got looked over! So at least the devs could make the Panther tanks FIRE at -8° to +18/20° and RELOAD at -6° to +18/20°.

Maybe this questions? Ok, these are not concerning the leopard, but ok.

Anyway, u did a great job here.  :smile:

Gaulwa #36 Posted 18 April 2013 - 11:09 AM

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View PostPanocek, on 17 April 2013 - 05:21 PM, said:

During research couldn't you find any better gun mantle design for Leo?  :tongue:

Sorry, no. You will have to direct your complains to the German engineers :)

View PostHarim, on 17 April 2013 - 07:10 PM, said:

Maybe this questions? Ok, these are not concerning the leopard, but ok.

Anyway, u did a great job here.  :smile:

The questions concern gameplay balance between nations or in regard to the limited size of the maps. Sadly, I cannot comment on this, I am not a designer.

Ry0ken #37 Posted 18 April 2013 - 03:07 PM

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View PostBlanchard, on 18 April 2013 - 11:09 AM, said:

Sorry, no. You will have to direct your complains to the German engineers :)
Well I really like the Leopards looks. I'm just unsure on the Indienpanzer, because the gun looks awkward long. It's the same reason I kicked away all L100 guns in my WoT client per mods, just looks ridiculus.

View PostBlanchard, on 18 April 2013 - 11:09 AM, said:

The questions concern gameplay balance between nations or in regard to the limited size of the maps. Sadly, I cannot comment on this, I am not a designer.
I think the sad part are the WG designers. Most hobbyists have more knowledge on German armor then they have. That is resonable as I also know very few stuff about russian tanks for example. But the WG designers don't seem to listen very often. We did not get -8° to +20° gun depression/elevation for PantherI&II tanks in 8.5.  :sad:

Also I found some issues of the Panther V-IV model:

Posted Image

http://forum.worldof...equest-pz-v-vi/

As we can clearly see from WG's own sources it had Schürzen on its tracks as well as on the turret. Yet WG devs seem to give a crap. Again some fan work does the job far better and guess what - without beeing one of the WG expert developers/designers he figured out that the crew probably comenced combat with CLOSED doors!  :ohmy:  omg... who would have thought about that...  :great:

Also the hull of the WG PzV-IV is a late modell where the original photo shows an early hull instead.

PS: Sorry for my sometimes negative wording, it's just... well a long history of suggestions beeing ignored. Somehow none of my suggestions in fact made it to the player suggestion thread. How are those threads reviewed before release?

PPS: Tried to fix this: http://forum.worldof...with-schuerzen/

Edited by Ry0ken, 23 April 2013 - 03:22 PM.


CauldronBorn #38 Posted 19 April 2013 - 08:12 AM

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View PostRy0ken, on 29 March 2013 - 03:16 PM, said:

Yeah and the Panther also could not turn its turret when it stands on a sideslope of more then +/-5°! But the WG devs have etablished a very nice double standard in my eyes. Everything that "can" be treated in a bad way for the Germans will be implemented, good traits as suspension are not implemented. Same goes for the spaced armor doors of the PzIV - "Hey Heinz let the doors open so Ivan can shot us better!"  :tongue: Why not modell all hatches open on KV tanks to?
While on the other hand the IS tanks had two component round taking immense time to load - yet this is not reflected in the game. Also I would wonder about the loading capability in those crammed T44/54 turrets, can they load at any angle? Has anyone looked at crew exhaustion due to working in extremely limited room? I also bet Russian tanks had several flaws that got looked over! So at least the devs could make the Panther tanks FIRE at -8° to +18/20° and RELOAD at -6° to +18/20°.

THIS!
Example? German testing with captured T-62 (not A tho) showed that the tank and turret was so cramped and the ammo storage so "special" that the rof after the 2nd round dropped to 3 rounds a minute. (source: 50 years armoured corps of the Bundeswehr; more or less an "official" book )
Now our T-62A has a 100mm and not the 115mm but 9 rounds/min?  :trollface:

Edited by CauldronBorn, 19 April 2013 - 08:13 AM.


BP_OMowe #39 Posted 20 April 2013 - 04:57 PM

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What you all need to keep in mind is that this is a GAME. That means that a tank that was superior in regards of historical accuracy either will have to be excluded entirely or have invented weaknesses in order to not ruin the game balance.

Ry0ken #40 Posted 23 April 2013 - 03:16 PM

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View PostBP_OMowe, on 20 April 2013 - 04:57 PM, said:

What you all need to keep in mind is that this is a GAME. That means that a tank that was superior in regards of historical accuracy either will have to be excluded entirely or have invented weaknesses in order to not ruin the game balance.
What you need to keep in mind is that you are talking to some versed people here.

Putting the correct gun depression on Panther1/2 will by no means make them OP or imbalanced tanks. In fact Panther-M10 has the correct gun depression and I have never ever heard of anyone saying Panther-M10 is an OP tank. In fact the German medium Panther tanks are some of the hardest to play tanks like mentioned before. So there is absolute no concern in them becoming OP by giving the correct gun depression to Panther1/2. In fact it's absolute nonsense to use tank models of correct size and use the wrong gun depression on it, as the original gun depression always is designed in regard of the whole tanks design. The higher the tank the more important is an appropriate gun depression. Small tanks dont need that much gun depression to hit the very same point!

Same for the PzIV, its sides are high and vulnerable allready. And the turret Schürzen don't seem to work as good as the Russian spaced armor on IS-3/7 anyway. So there is for sure enough weak spot visible when they close the turret Schürzen doors on the PzIV.

So thank you for your concern, but you got no point here really.  :honoring:

Edited by Ry0ken, 23 April 2013 - 03:19 PM.





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