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Insults and abuse


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DeadEdcom #121 Posted 23 April 2013 - 09:08 AM

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View PostJosipBr0zTito, on 23 April 2013 - 08:31 AM, said:

There is no bullying on the internet (unless you are getting repeatedly targeted by a person or a group and even then they would have to resort to hacking)  considering that you can just ignore it.
Does bullying mean you have to be repeatedly targetted?  It's not something that has to be physical either.  If it's just a one off case then and not repeated is it called something else and is it then acceptable?  If it is acceptable then by whom? (perhaps as an self answer to this I can point to my previous suggestion a couple of posts above :wink: ).

The point of the original post was questioning the acceptability of insults and abuse.  Many seem to have said that it's ok and deserved.  I call that bullying.  We are talking about people playing a game and being insulted and abused because they are bad at it, because their stats suck, or simply because they do something different to what some armchair general thought they should have done.  The actions in the game are a reflection of the game and how serious someone plays, their understanding of it, etc.  The verbal abuse and insults in the chat are a reflection of the person throwing them.  You are talking to another person at that point, not shooting pixels in a virtual world.

JosipBr0zTito #122 Posted 23 April 2013 - 09:32 AM

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View PostDeadEdcom, on 23 April 2013 - 09:08 AM, said:

Does bullying mean you have to be repeatedly targetted?  It's not something that has to be physical either.  If it's just a one off case then and not repeated is it called something else and is it then acceptable?  If it is acceptable then by whom? (perhaps as an self answer to this I can point to my previous suggestion a couple of posts above :wink: ).

The point of the original post was questioning the acceptability of insults and abuse.  Many seem to have said that it's ok and deserved.  I call that bullying.  We are talking about people playing a game and being insulted and abused because they are bad at it, because their stats suck, or simply because they do something different to what some armchair general thought they should have done.  The actions in the game are a reflection of the game and how serious someone plays, their understanding of it, etc.  The verbal abuse and insults in the chat are a reflection of the person throwing them.  You are talking to another person at that point, not shooting pixels in a virtual world.

Yes, you have to be repeatedly targeted by the same person or a group of people.
Real life an the internet are very different. Here you can ignore some one or block him. I personaly don mind it or care about it considering that the person doesn't have any power over me. That's another reason its not bullying. The internet is freedom at its finest and its ugliest, and that's the reason I don't want it changed.

Edited by JosipBr0zTito, 23 April 2013 - 09:32 AM.


Cheezix #123 Posted 23 April 2013 - 09:33 AM

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View PostBlarpie, on 22 April 2013 - 04:53 PM, said:

I think a lot have turned the chat off.

Yesterday when I played a match as arty, the team didn't scout/check/protect half of the whole map (everyone execpt the arties lemminged).
In the chat I stated that unless someone goes to the other side to check for enemies I won't fire a single shell.
Result, didn't fire a single shell :p :D

So my conclusion is that either everyone has turned the chat off or they were idiots (most likely the last).
I may be an idiot for not helping out anyway but it sure felt good :p
The three arties went down pretty quickly so I didn't have to wait long anyway.

Yes I feel you ;) the point is most players play the game 1 vs 29 and have no idea how to cooperate in random battles. I always try to organize a little cooperation with asking questions at the start of the game. Since teamplay is the key to victory it's always useful to try this. But it annoys me big time when players in a standard battle just dont pay attention to anything, like the map or the chat or even the tanks in front of them, and at the start all go the same direction. My regular respond to this is to say "LEMMINGS DIE" and go the opposite direction. Sometimes... there are one or two players who decide it's better to come to my side. That always makes me happy and also deffinitely helps to win more battles :)

Taika_Apina #124 Posted 23 April 2013 - 09:34 AM

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I do bash my teams a lot when they play like s***. If you have a problem with that then too bad. If team plays remotely well and we still lose because enemy team was just better I let it slide, but this is rarely the case. Most of the time I lose games because team fails to take control of key positions on the map. And when you are one of the 2 tanks that is trying to do so and die early on in the match you bet I'm going to yell at all you campers back near spawn.

Rankkis #125 Posted 23 April 2013 - 09:47 AM

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View PostOutfielder, on 23 April 2013 - 07:23 AM, said:

+1 from me.

It never seizes to amaze me how people think that insults can get anything accomplished. I can't stop thinking: Why do they do that? Were they raised that way (meaning they don't even know how to communicate with others in a decent way) or are they one of those wannabee gangsters who think talking 'street'  will give 'em 'cred'?And at what point (if ever) will they realize they accomplish NOTHING?!?!?

It has been said thousands of times already, instructing bobs politely does absolutely nothing. They don't listen, as you don't listen when we tell you that they don't listen. Raging in the chat let's you blow of some steam and thus accomplishes at least something, even if nobody will listen to that either (and clearly someone does since there are so many bobs crying about it).

DeadEdcom #126 Posted 23 April 2013 - 09:48 AM

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View PostJosipBr0zTito, on 23 April 2013 - 09:32 AM, said:

Yes, you have to be repeatedly targeted by the same person or a group of people.
Real life an the internet are very different. Here you can ignore some one or block him.
Ok, thanks for the clarification, and also a good point about the blocking :)

aboch #127 Posted 23 April 2013 - 12:09 PM

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View PostRankkis, on 23 April 2013 - 09:47 AM, said:

It has been said thousands of times already, instructing bobs politely does absolutely nothing. They don't listen, as you don't listen when we tell you that they don't listen. Raging in the chat let's you blow of some steam and thus accomplishes at least something, even if nobody will listen to that either (and clearly someone does since there are so many bobs crying about it).

totally agreee with the blow of some steam, if there wasn't that chat a lot of people would shoot and team damage a lot more.

Rosetta_and_Philae #128 Posted 23 April 2013 - 12:30 PM

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Suck it up, either improve your skills or bugger off.  There are some players who want to enjoy playing and winning at the same time and really whip the other team cause they can.  Also there are other players who even after 1000's of battles are just pure dross that hold back the potential of others.

psge #129 Posted 23 April 2013 - 01:12 PM

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If you're giving out advice then fine.  If you're throwing out something that you intend to hurt the other person then it's bullying.  It doesn't help anyone.  Plus if you look at the fact that it is a pattern of a behaviour from that person (the one chucking out the insults).  Whether they are a good player or not doesn't cover over that fact that you are a bully.

Have you also thought about who you are talking to.  Kids do play this game who seem to rightly or wrongly get blamed for a lot of things in game, does it get you off abusing kids?  Does it make you feel like a 'real' man?  It's not the 'noobs' in the game that have a problem if the answer to the answer to any of those questions is 'yes'.

Finally, it is one thing when insults relate to the game, they usually have noob in them somewhere.  It's something entirely different when they are personal.  Wish someone had cancer was a recent one I say.  It was aimed at someone I know who father recently died of cancer.  Way to go in making his day!

This is a game played by players of different abilities.  Over thousands of games it all evens out, you will have won as many games as you have lost because of poor play on either side.  Your win/loss will look pretty much the same.  If the less gifted players left the game, it is likely most of the worse abusers would have worse records.

Play the game and have fun, if you feel the need to abuse then you're not having fun, so you go somewhere else.

PS  let the flaming begin  :hiding:

Taika_Apina #130 Posted 23 April 2013 - 01:40 PM

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View Postpsge, on 23 April 2013 - 01:12 PM, said:


Play the game and have fun, if you feel the need to abuse then you're not having fun, so you go somewhere else.


Well here's the problem I'm having fun playing the game when my team is not ruining it by playing abysmally bad. No one enjoys losing because 10 tanks in your team decided to rush through field at start in Malinovka. No one. If you say that you do enjoy even games like that you are lying. And if at least half of your teams are full of these tools even the most patient person will lose their temper from time to time. If you can keep calm in situations like this you have no will to win which is fine but for a competitive player like myself losing because your team went full on r***** is infuriating.

PS: If you think this game has a lot of abusers try playing Dota.

Signal11th #131 Posted 23 April 2013 - 01:47 PM

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View Postpsge, on 23 April 2013 - 01:12 PM, said:

If you're giving out advice then fine.  If you're throwing out something that you intend to hurt the other person then it's bullying.  It doesn't help anyone.  Plus if you look at the fact that it is a pattern of a behaviour from that person (the one chucking out the insults).  Whether they are a good player or not doesn't cover over that fact that you are a bully.

Have you also thought about who you are talking to.  Kids do play this game who seem to rightly or wrongly get blamed for a lot of things in game, does it get you off abusing kids?  Does it make you feel like a 'real' man?  It's not the 'noobs' in the game that have a problem if the answer to the answer to any of those questions is 'yes'.

Finally, it is one thing when insults relate to the game, they usually have noob in them somewhere.  It's something entirely different when they are personal.  Wish someone had cancer was a recent one I say.  It was aimed at someone I know who father recently died of cancer.  Way to go in making his day!

This is a game played by players of different abilities.  Over thousands of games it all evens out, you will have won as many games as you have lost because of poor play on either side.  Your win/loss will look pretty much the same.  If the less gifted players left the game, it is likely most of the worse abusers would have worse records.

Play the game and have fun, if you feel the need to abuse then you're not having fun, so you go somewhere else.

PS  let the flaming begin  :hiding:

Jesus dude man up, let me guess you wear cardigans and eat Tofu?  The most anyone can get abuse for is 15minutes and if a person is continually getting abuse round after round you would have to expect that the person is continually doing something wrong. If the abuse continues after the match then yes you may have a point but isn't that what the "block" function is for?

As I mentioned I see trolling and banter as a valid tactic in the game, if the guy is spending more time being all outraged at something I wrote than looking at the screen/map then the advantage is mine. Some people will find offence in anything that is written and usually this carries on to their "real life" as well.

Wishing someone had cancer is a bit OTT but in reality they are only words so you choose to ignore it or get all outraged and blow your top which is what the person is really wanting you to do.

Playing on public servers is a pretty soul-destroying experience for anyone where time after time you get the lemming train or the camp out squad playing and the usual morons who lemming on their own get killed and then call everyone noobs for now following him/her to their death. People get exasperated because they are trying to win but most of their team is doing their best to lose it's normal people vent.

I suppose the only thing that gets on my goat is when you get "arty round" and your arty is manned by Stevie Wonder and Ray Charles. 3 or 4 bad tanks in your team can be managed but you get 3 or 4 bad arty in your team you usually get royally screwed.

psge #132 Posted 23 April 2013 - 01:55 PM

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View PostTaika_Apina, on 23 April 2013 - 01:40 PM, said:

Well here's the problem I'm having fun playing the game when my team is not ruining it by playing abysmally bad. No one enjoys losing because 10 tanks in your team decided to rush through field at start in Malinovka. No one. If you say that you do enjoy even games like that you are lying. And if at least half of your teams are full of these tools even the most patient person will lose their temper from time to time. If you can keep calm in situations like this you have no will to win which is fine but for a competitive player like myself losing because your team went full on r***** is infuriating.


I'll be the judge of what I enjoy.  Try following other tanks when you're dead (of course you never die I would think so just ignore this) even on losing games you see good play.  Besides the point is it's all even, you win games and you lose games because of poor play.  So move on, no reason abuse someone.  No one is fantastic at everything so what you're saying is that if you're less good at something then the better person can abuse you?  Just remember how ever good you think you are there is only one 'best' so if skill gives you the right to abuse then only that person should be doing the abusing.

Edited by psge, 23 April 2013 - 02:09 PM.


psge #133 Posted 23 April 2013 - 02:08 PM

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View Postsignal11th, on 23 April 2013 - 01:47 PM, said:


Wishing someone had cancer is a bit OTT but in reality they are only words so you choose to ignore it or get all outraged and blow your top which is what the person is really wanting you to do.


Sorry neg repped you by accident, can't take it back so I'll plus rep you on something else.

Problem is that comments like the cancer thing aren't uncommon and can be upsetting.  Plus I don't undersand why you would want to make a team mate blow their top.  If the opposition is abusing I love it and ignore it and is rare.  Abusing you're own team, it can only be to upset them that the point.  Like I say, if you suffer from a poor team one game, the opposition will  get it the next, it evens out.  Some time sit can even out.

As for continually getting abuse (I don't btw) do you really think being called a noob continually is gonna help someone?  They get told not to camp, or not to rush scout or whatever continually then they might listen eventually.  Perhaps not in a lot of cases but then it will in some.  Abusing will never work, it won't change their behaviour for the better.  They either get mad and probably make mistakes or they ignore it.

Loved you comment about Stevie Wonder and Ray Charles though.

Apologies for the neg rep.  I'm off to rectify that and add one for the Arty joke.

JosipBr0zTito #134 Posted 23 April 2013 - 02:12 PM

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View Postpsge, on 23 April 2013 - 01:12 PM, said:

If you're giving out advice then fine.  If you're throwing out something that you intend to hurt the other person then it's bullying.  It doesn't help anyone.  Plus if you look at the fact that it is a pattern of a behaviour from that person (the one chucking out the insults).  Whether they are a good player or not doesn't cover over that fact that you are a bully.

Play the game and have fun, if you feel the need to abuse then you're not having fun, so you go somewhere else.

I explained what bullying is in a previous post and its not what you think it is.

It doesn't help any one?? It helps the one that's doing the insulting. Releasing some tension is good once in a while.

I will be the judge of when I'm having fun, thank you very much. :justwait:

Signal11th #135 Posted 23 April 2013 - 02:13 PM

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View Postpsge, on 23 April 2013 - 02:08 PM, said:

Sorry neg repped you by accident, can't take it back so I'll plus rep you on something else.

Problem is that comments like the cancer thing aren't uncommon and can be upsetting.  Plus I don't undersand why you would want to make a team mate blow their top.  If the opposition is abusing I love it and ignore it and is rare.  Abusing you're own team, it can only be to upset them that the point.  Like I say, if you suffer from a poor team one game, the opposition will  get it the next, it evens out.  Some time sit can even out.

As for continually getting abuse (I don't btw) do you really think being called a noob continually is gonna help someone?  They get told not to camp, or not to rush scout or whatever continually then they might listen eventually.  Perhaps not in a lot of cases but then it will in some.  Abusing will never work, it won't change their behaviour for the better.  They either get mad and probably make mistakes or they ignore it.

Loved you comment about Stevie Wonder and Ray Charles though.

Apologies for the neg rep.  I'm off to rectify that and add one for the Arty joke.

lol no probs, yeah trolling otherside I'll do but don't understand trolling your own team??? Obviously you do usually get the odd "rambo" tank who then gets blapped and blames everyone else, these people do deserve a "little" trolling. :-)

psge #136 Posted 23 April 2013 - 02:42 PM

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View PostJosipBr0zTito, on 23 April 2013 - 02:12 PM, said:

I explained what bullying is in a previous post and its not what you think it is.


Haven't read your other post but bullying is about how the person being bullied feels not you.  If you feel comfortable with upsetting someone deliberately because you can and you enjoy it then that makes you a bully.

As for being the judge of how you get fun, I wouldn't dream of it (and didn't).  There are lots of things that I'd like to do that I would find fun but don't because it isn't the right thing to do (illegal, anti-social "fill in you're own reason here").

Bored now...so feel free to post what you like.

Good luck all and have fun  :justwait:

JosipBr0zTito #137 Posted 23 April 2013 - 02:51 PM

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View Postpsge, on 23 April 2013 - 02:42 PM, said:

Haven't read your other post but bullying is about how the person being bullied feels not you.  If you feel comfortable with upsetting someone deliberately because you can and you enjoy it then that makes you a bully.

As for being the judge of how you get fun, I wouldn't dream of it (and didn't).  There are lots of things that I'd like to do that I would find fun but don't because it isn't the right thing to do (illegal, anti-social "fill in you're own reason here").

Bored now...so feel free to post what you like.

Good luck all and have fun  :justwait:

Well you should read my other post. Might learn something.
If we start to throw words like ''bully'' around every time some one gets his feelings hurt it looses its meaning.

psge #138 Posted 23 April 2013 - 03:06 PM

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View PostJosipBr0zTito, on 23 April 2013 - 02:51 PM, said:

Well you should read my other post. Might learn something.
If we start to throw words like ''bully'' around every time some one gets his feelings hurt it looses its meaning.

I don't need to read your post to know what bullying is.  People's feeling get hurt all the time, often unintentionally and that is unlikely to be bullying.  If your aim is to upset a person and get your way and from and also have 'fun' at their expence then it is bullying.

You can still bully people without knowing it, but here you're advocating abusing people for your enjoyment in full knowledge they will be upset.  How can it not be bullying?  I suppose you could argue that you only do it against that one person for one game.  But if you just pick on someone else the next game then that still makes you a bully.

Like i have said before, if you insult people then they will mostly likely ignore you or get upset either waythey will not do what you want.

Most people don't like to be called a bully and I make no judgement on you as I do not recall seeing you in game.

I really am off now.

Once again have fun and good luck.  May the 'noob' be avoided  :playing:

Edited by psge, 23 April 2013 - 03:16 PM.


JosipBr0zTito #139 Posted 23 April 2013 - 03:20 PM

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View Postpsge, on 23 April 2013 - 03:06 PM, said:

I don't need to read your post to know what bullying is.  People's feeling get hurt all the time, often unintentionally that's not bullying, but that isn't what you are talking about.  If your aim is to upset a person and get your way and from what you have said also have 'fun' at their expence then it is bullying.

You can still bully people without knowing it, but here your advocating abusing people for your enjoyment in full knowledge they will be upset.  How can it not be bullying?  I suppose you could argue that you only do it against that one person for one game.  But if you just pick on someone else the next game then that still makes you a bully.

Like i have said before, if you insult people then they will mostly likely ignore you or get upset and not do what you want.  Most peole don't like to be called a bully which is why I have been careful not to call anyone one, others can judge for themselves.

Wiki:
Bullying may be defined as the activity of repeated, aggressive behaviour intended to hurt another person, physically or mentally. Bullying is characterized by an individual behaving in a certain way to gain power over another person.

Or

Bullying occurs when a person is exposed, repeatedly and over time, to negative actions on the part of one or more other persons.

So no, you don't know what bullying means. Some one insulting you in game chat isn't bullying you considering you can block them.

Edited by JosipBr0zTito, 23 April 2013 - 03:21 PM.


psge #140 Posted 23 April 2013 - 03:32 PM

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View PostJosipBr0zTito, on 23 April 2013 - 03:20 PM, said:

So no, you don't know what bullying means. Some one insulting you in game chat isn't bullying you considering you can block them.

Where do I start, I don't think I'll bother I don't have time.  But if your only defence is that they can 'ignore me' if you don't want to hear my abuse then I then where does it stop.  If you continually try to alter people's behaviour by insulting them then you're a bully.  What else would you call them?  Just because it may be a succession of different people doesn't make you less of a bully.

You need to read the whole article you quoted.  What you're advocating is that it is alright to abuse someone.  Then the next game it's ok for someone else to abuse them, and then the next etc. You're advocating a culture of bullying.

Simples

Edited by psge, 23 April 2013 - 03:36 PM.





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