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New ELC AMX matchmaker

ELC AMX scout tank destroyer

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Castellorizon #1 Posted 27 April 2013 - 09:04 PM

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in the 8.5 patch WG decided to up the matchmaker to the ELC that already had an special matchmaker just for it.

with the New matchmaker it often sees tier 9 games.

i thought this was already settled, that the ELC isnt an scout tank.
placing it in an tier 9 game is unfair.

the main point of the ELC is an highly mobile tank destroyer, with the top gun it has 170mm of pen and 240~ damage, balanced by an slow rate of fire of only 5 rounds per minute.

it now seeing tier 9 games means that you are most likely to get one shoted by anything, and even if you stop after being spottet to take cover high tier arty will most likely love to rain hell down on any 14mm armored speedy light tank to protect themself later in the game. even if they dont hit you its going to seriously hurt you if not kill you.

for the love of god change the matchmaker back to what it was.

comradecoates #2 Posted 27 April 2013 - 09:14 PM

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When ELC first came out it could face t9 (even t10?) and I LOVED it there. Lower tiers have so many faster firing guns that you cannot dash in, take a shot and run away whilst enemy is reloading.
You used to make enemy think "do I risk a shot on that little bugger?"

And seriously, if you are sat around waiting for high tier arty to hit you you are doing so many things wrong.

Castellorizon #3 Posted 27 April 2013 - 09:29 PM

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the ELC has an too long aiming time for peek a boo style play, your only gona get smacked in the the face.
240 damage at tier 9 is not worth the risk to take. the t50-2 has more of an scout role than this with its higher top speed, mobility, health, armor, weight, view range and radio.

at tier 9 you have to be aiming at weakspots to pen them in the first place, meaning you have to come close, that allso mean that you have to stop and aim the little deathstar at them that takes 3~ seconds aswell for one 240 damage shot.
try shooting at long range and all your going to hear is "we just dinged them" and if your shooting from long range your most likely in an bush, say hello to arty shells.

parking next to an tier 9 heavy will get you killed very fast, he can just turn and hes going to rip apart the 7 tons next to him.
allso if you touch anyone even at low speeds you will explode or lose your tracks, leading to an explosion either way.

the ELC cant really be an good passive scout either with low view range.

Homer_J #4 Posted 27 April 2013 - 09:32 PM

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ELC did not have special matchmaking in 0.8.4 but t could get into tier 5 battles as top tank against tier 3, where it was rather OP.  This was not on the original 0.8.4 mm chart though but got hastily added to the RU version (the EU one never got the update).

The official 0.8.5 mm chart again says tier 5 lights can't get tier 5 battles.  I don't know if it is right yet.  I played a few rounds today and didn't see tier 3 though.

The top tier has not changed.

Homer_J #5 Posted 27 April 2013 - 09:37 PM

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View Postcomradecoates, on 27 April 2013 - 09:14 PM, said:

When ELC first came out it could face t9 (even t10?)

Just gone back through my collection of matchmaking charts and the ELC always had battle tier 6 to 9, apart from in 0.8.4 when it got battle tier 5 added (which I think was a mistake).

Gabblack #6 Posted 27 April 2013 - 09:37 PM

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ELC can be used as a scout tank and you'd better get use to it, because it's successors are scouts (light tanks in high tier battles, where sometimes you can't do sh*t just scouting) as well, and for example Amx12t has much worse mobility and way bigger silhouette than this little thing. It's gun could be better than Amx12t's (better penetration, higher alpha damage but lower rate of fire, aiming time both suck), you have mobility, goodish camo, acceptable viewrange (which can be upgraded by optics or binos) so there is nothing to stop you being useful in high tier matches.
Don't rush, be a passive scout if you don't trust in your mobility and use your gun, when enemy tanks are occupied, don't go alone for artys, just spot them, let your artys deal with them, you'll get the half of the credits for the arty's kill because you lighted them up.

Edited by Gabblack, 27 April 2013 - 09:39 PM.


IronBranch #7 Posted 27 April 2013 - 09:40 PM

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I like it as a scout, i dont know why you wouldn't. Endless humor when hugging large tanks at the high tiers, a lot of high tiers seem to have bad acc as well as low reload; what more do you want in a game while driving an ELC?

Castellorizon #8 Posted 27 April 2013 - 09:46 PM

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none of the french lights are scouts. the ELC can do the job in an pinch, but the t50-2 does the job much better.

the new matchmaker whould throw an ELC in an team as an scout, and and 50-2 in the other team.

imagen rushing into their base lighting up arty, but the lack of an proper radio doesnt get to light anything up for your arty.

Castellorizon #9 Posted 27 April 2013 - 10:07 PM

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oh im sorry im forgetting that this is an russian game.

Gabblack #10 Posted 27 April 2013 - 10:27 PM

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Yeah you got the point, the radio could be a limiting factor for scouting role, but you are not forced to scout the enemy base at the start of the game. Later there could be a fellow player nearby (inside the vast range of your radio, namely 360m :sceptic: ) that can transmit you signal further.
The T-50-2 is a dedicated end of the line scout (maybe we can call it the tier10 of light scout tanks) while ELC is a tier5 light for money making and fun and of course it is a step in the line of the french light/medium tech tree, so it doesn't have to be as awsome as it's russian pair is.

I don't know if the matchmaking value of the ELC is the same as the T-50-2 or not, but if it is, it's wrong of course, otherwise it must be compensated somehow within team setup.

Castellorizon #11 Posted 27 April 2013 - 10:40 PM

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with the ELC it whould take you around 2 minutes of constant fire into an tier 9 heavy to kill him, 2 minutes yeah..

the ELC was designed as an high firepower platform or scouting, it cant fill that role anymore.

i dont really understand why it is in the light tech tree in the first place, id fit more in the tank destroyer tree, an premium one at that.
why does the russians get to have all the fun  :sceptic:

and if and they are going to change anything change the standard ap rounds to HEAT, that is what it originaly was and it whould explain why such an tiny gun has 170 pen.  :unsure:

Castellorizon #12 Posted 27 April 2013 - 10:42 PM

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another thing to take into consideration is how absurdly bad the stock ELC is, now grinding that at tier 9 games, ohboy.
that whould make the french light tree an painfull grind from tier 1 to tier 7..

Observer413 #13 Posted 27 April 2013 - 10:45 PM

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Wall of text incoming!
Well i didnt play it in current patch yet, so i too cant tell if it gets to tier5 and whether it can or won't see tier3.
And to OP: you got few points correct, for example that when fighting at high tiers, touching anything will kill ELC(well, im talking about real beasts like kv5, kv4, e75, Tiger2, Vk45 and so on).
But i see some flaws in the way you think about this tank.
1) "i thought this was already settled, that the ELC isnt an scout tank."
Yes. It has poor radio, so if your team doesn't have a top notch radios themselves, they won't see what you spot. And no. It is very fast and nimble, so you can actually be a active/passive scout, the only thing is that you shouldnt drive too far away from your teammates. You could say it is a short range scout. No rushing for enemy cap here. To be honest- anything can be scout, when the need for one arises ;p I already can assure you, that for example german medium tanks like pz3 or pz3/4 are fullfilling this role quite nicely, and they aren't designated as scouts.
2) "the main point of the ELC is an highly mobile tank destroyer"
The main point of the ELC for me, is that is an unique machine, like m3lee or amx40, that cannot be put in simple restraints as light tank, td and such. Bad radio for long range scouting. Too low DPM and abysmall accuracy/aiming time to be an effective TD.
I prefer to think of it as a "epic backstabber/annoyance/distractor when played right". Trying to be 'just' a LT or TD is a waste of its true potential.  I'll get to it later.
3) "the ELC has an too long aiming time for peek a boo style play, your only gona get smacked in the the face."
And thats why you don't play that way, geez. - -'
You got no armor, low hp and amazing speed, and you try to brawl or smth? That is a major tactical mistake, gameplay-wise. Its like being a forward tank in Panther or AMX M4 45 during pushing of the flanks - just wrong, unless its unavoidable because of the match/team situation in said moment.

4) "the ELC cant really be an good passive scout either with low view range."
360 is low? Take binos and you are almost or already achieving the view range limit. Also, most of the spotting will be performed from distance lower than 300, i believe, since you just need to zoom in, zoom out(which makes said binos obsolete, get optics instead). And then repeat many times, you don't need to light up enemy 24/7 for your team to hit them.

5) "imagen rushing into their base lighting up arty"
NO. >:(
Just-no. Unless you already feasted upon wrecks and corpses on the enemy top tanks, then it may be acceptable.

And my all time favourites!
6)  "placing it in an tier 9 game is unfair."
"it now seeing tier 9 games means that you are most likely to get one shoted by anything"
"at tier 9 you have to be aiming at weakspots to pen them in the first place, meaning you have to come close, that allso mean that you have to stop and aim the little deathstar at them that takes 3~ seconds"
"240 damage at tier 9 is not worth the risk to take"
Unfair? Yes. For the enemy team. If you play that tank right, that is. Killed in one shot? Don't get shot then. Problem solved.

And now my point: the higher the tier is, the better it gets for the ELC!!!
Not just because for fighting higher tiers you get better Exp and Credit scores.
Its because the higher tier is, the bigger and slower some of your enemies get. Im not talking about light tanks or some of low profile mediums. Im talking about huge land-battleships like Lowe, KV5, KV4, E75 or tank destroyers. These are your favourite food.

Let me tell you a short story of my Tiger2.
Once upon a time, there was a happy tiger2 in Ruinberg, in the middle of most likely a 'win' match.
And then the wild ELC appeared! Tiger2 was prepared for him, he loaded HE in his long 10.5cm gun, ready to blow ELC away. He aimed, and aimed carefully. When he was ready, he took a shot.
A shot missed by an inch.
"Not a problem"- Thought Tiger.
"I have some more of these for such occasions."- he smiled to himself.
But until our hero managed to reload his gun, the ELC managed to get next to him.
Tiger nonchalantly looked down on a vermin ELC. Or tried to do so. And then his heart was struck with horror, terror, nightmare and a feeling of impending doom, and his pants were filled with bricks.
Cause it wasn't until that very moment, when Tiger realised: "OMFG. I got no gun depression to get him down there. I'm boned."
(luckily, ELC decided to get a kill on my teammate KV-1s, so i got a second shot at him which got rid of the threat)

I hope this story gives other ppl insight in something i consider a main asset to the fun factor of that tank: slaying of the big/slow tanks. Funny thing is, that some of your enemies doesn't have enough of gun depression to shoot at you when you park next to them, and if you drive properly they won't be able to neither touch(ram) you, nor get a distance from you to be able to shoot at you. Try that, its hilarious! It needs a bit of practice, though. Its also dependant on players awereness, since target may have a support of other tanks that can shoot you, while you are dancing with your victim.
And for the bonus: If you want a weakspot, i can tell you of such one. It is called "side/rear armor of all kind of s--- you will meet in that tank".

Seriously, the MM for the ELC is fine and benefits this tank.

Edited by Observer413, 27 April 2013 - 10:53 PM.


Homer_J #14 Posted 27 April 2013 - 10:47 PM

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View PostGabblack, on 27 April 2013 - 10:27 PM, said:

I don't know if the matchmaking value of the ELC is the same as the T-50-2 or not,

T-50-2 and Chaffee both get special mm, battle tiers 7 to 12.  So bottom is same as the lowest for a tier 7 med, top is the same as the top tier for a tier 10 heavy or tier 8 arty.  Theoretically could get into battles with only tier 10 med/heavy/TD, tier 8 arty and lights, and T-50-2 and chaffee.  No tier 9, no tier 8 apart from lights and arty.

Castellorizon #15 Posted 27 April 2013 - 10:58 PM

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if the tiger 2 stood still an elc whould spend over an minute to kill him on full health, 1,200 DPM vs 1500hp tank. and you whould hardly see an tiger 2 be okay with having an ELC poking at his bum for that long.

allso i never had any problem hitting an ELC, most of the times i see them i think easy prey and load HE, elc gone. then again most people play the ELC like an pure scout.

if your very lucky an ELC can net you 40k credits. most of the times just 10k. hardly an money maker as all the tier 5's have reduced credit earnings.

Gabblack #16 Posted 27 April 2013 - 11:16 PM

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View PostHomer_J, on 27 April 2013 - 10:47 PM, said:

T-50-2 and Chaffee both get special mm, battle tiers 7 to 12.  So bottom is same as the lowest for a tier 7 med, top is the same as the top tier for a tier 10 heavy or tier 8 arty.  Theoretically could get into battles with only tier 10 med/heavy/TD, tier 8 arty and lights, and T-50-2 and chaffee.  No tier 9, no tier 8 apart from lights and arty.
OP said that in one of his battles, his ELC was in his team and a T-50-2 was in the other team as scouts. I know their possible battle tiers are not the same, and my point was that the difference between the value of the scouts should be compensated elsewhere (for example ELC's team gets one more heavy tank, while T-50-2' gets a medium). I talked about macthmaking value not battle tiers. Maybe my post was ambiguous.

Observer413 #17 Posted 27 April 2013 - 11:22 PM

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View PostLeonMk2, on 27 April 2013 - 10:58 PM, said:

if the tiger 2 stood still an elc whould spend over an minute to kill him on full health, 1,200 DPM vs 1500hp tank. and you whould hardly see an tiger 2 be okay with having an ELC poking at his bum for that long.

allso i never had any problem hitting an ELC, most of the times i see them i think easy prey and load HE, elc gone. then again most people play the ELC like an pure scout.

if your very lucky an ELC can net you 40k credits. most of the times just 10k. hardly an money maker as all the tier 5's have reduced credit earnings.
First off: its easy to put germans on fire. This often greatly reduces enemy hp pool and combat capabilities. Second, random ammoracks are random. Never underestimate them. DPM rating does not take this two things into consideration, and these things really shortens tank lifes.

Of course KT wouldnt be ok with poking(200damage on 1600 tank is poking? Hardly.) ELC. But alone, against a COMPETENT ELC player, you will have a hard time getting away. It doesnt matter what a Tiger thinks of such scene. Alone, in open, he or she can as well just spread legs and bend over.

Reduced income in fight tier5 vs tier9? Are we playing the same game? I'm not playing with premium acc right now and i do not posses tier7-8 premium tanks, so that 20k-40k of clean income is most welcome.

Never had problem hitting ELC? NEVER? Good for you, cause they sure as hell give me hard time with all that speed, "0 damage crits" BS and such.

Castellorizon #18 Posted 27 April 2013 - 11:50 PM

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View PostGabblack, on 27 April 2013 - 11:16 PM, said:

OP said that in one of his battles, his ELC was in his team and a T-50-2 was in the other team as scouts. I know their possible battle tiers are not the same, and my point was that the difference between the value of the scouts should be compensated elsewhere (for example ELC's team gets one more heavy tank, while T-50-2' gets a medium). I talked about macthmaking value not battle tiers. Maybe my post was ambiguous.

so heavy tanks are better by default then, if im hearing you right.
the t50-2 is much more valuble in an battle than an ELC is.

now take the average tiger 2 driver and put him up solo against an ELC, who is most likely to win? and those rare occasions you catch an tiger 2 in the middle of an field you might if your lucky ammo rack him.

"in best case scenario this tank is really good" arguments arent really worth much, since you are unlikely to encounter them a quarter of your battles.

its like playing an at2 at tier 5 with no arty and none firing HE ammo at you, then its godly, as soon as someone has an 105 derp gun or arty, your close to useless for first line offense. because of scenario 1 people will think its OP with the 208mm frontal armour, when its really not.

my point being the ELC is not suited for +4 tier battles, it if saw tier 5-8 it whould be more like it, instead of 6-9.

Edited by LeonMk2, 27 April 2013 - 11:54 PM.


Castellorizon #19 Posted 27 April 2013 - 11:56 PM

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View PostObserver413, on 27 April 2013 - 11:22 PM, said:

First off: its easy to put germans on fire. This often greatly reduces enemy hp pool and combat capabilities. Second, random ammoracks are random. Never underestimate them. DPM rating does not take this two things into consideration, and these things really shortens tank lifes.

Of course KT wouldnt be ok with poking(200damage on 1600 tank is poking? Hardly.) ELC. But alone, against a COMPETENT ELC player, you will have a hard time getting away. It doesnt matter what a Tiger thinks of such scene. Alone, in open, he or she can as well just spread legs and bend over.

Reduced income in fight tier5 vs tier9? Are we playing the same game? I'm not playing with premium acc right now and i do not posses tier7-8 premium tanks, so that 20k-40k of clean income is most welcome.

Never had problem hitting ELC? NEVER? Good for you, cause they sure as hell give me hard time with all that speed, "0 damage crits" BS and such.

tier 5 tanks have overall reduced credit earnings, i said 40k credits IF your REALLY luck. do expect 8-10k average.

Homer_J #20 Posted 27 April 2013 - 11:59 PM

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View PostGabblack, on 27 April 2013 - 11:16 PM, said:

OP said that in one of his battles, his ELC was in his team and a T-50-2 was in the other team as scouts. I know their possible battle tiers are not the same, and my point was that the difference between the value of the scouts should be compensated

In that case, yes.

T-50-2 and Chaffee count as if they were tier 6.  As they always have done.

ELC counts as a tier 5.




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