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Generally there is a little less camping since the patch but it has totlay nothing to do with arty, origins of this comes from huge amount of meds who are much more suitable for dogfights than they were before. I see 4-6 meds in battle at average, which is about 3-5 more than before. Arty wasnt suited for shooting moving targets before and it isnt even now. Numbers of arty players dropped down, but they will drop even frther when players grinding for higher tiers of arty will stop because of lousy fun playing it provides.
I saw campinovka totaly rushing both sides several times, even both sides had 3 artys, and i saw it totaly camped down without artys. That is just matter of players and few brave people going to attack and the rest joining them. And Karelia ... I am probably playing on some other server. Its played as it has allways been, some attack south, some block north. And some meds usually attack north, but thats again meds issue, arty wasnt able to hit them well before and isnt able to do it now, no change there, its just their numbers have grown so that they try what they didnt before because now they can achieve something given their higher numbers, speed and low profile.

 bat21zing, on 02 January 2011 - 06:02 AM, said:

Give mi armor like heavy tanks or speed like scoout or hidden abillity like TD then I can risk with artillery.
You NEVER played artillery! Try first!

 baronnn, on 03 January 2011 - 08:46 AM, said:

I really doubt that artillery is the major cause to your bought-out point of sudden deaths. I tend to think that you accredit all kills, where killer is nowhere to be seen, to artys. And if so, then you are greatly wrong. Considering RoF, dispersion of shots and usual number of artys (5 is rare, 2-3 is usual), it ain't that probable that they are always omgwtfpwn-killing everyone or pushing them to deep-campholes.

It isn't purely arty that makes people to camp behind farmhouses/abbey in malinovka. Wasn't then (before arty-killer patch) and is now even less. It is just the way ppl are used to play that map with or w/o arty. It's the layout of that map.
Also i have never seen Karelia been camped out around bases and "taking pot shots". There is _always_ some action (arty support or no) around NW corner boulders and there is _always_ some "pleasantries exchanging" in SE/E valley (usually more than some). Thing that is rarely seen is middle-road rush.

I have been sitting (post-patch) in quite open place several times in my SU-85 and seen how quite many arty shells fired at me (that any single one of them would certainly have killed me before patch considering shooting arty models and time they had to zero out on me) just landed all around me and just made some minor scratches. The "random-landingspot"-nerf + aiming time increase have effectively ruined the possibilities for arty to justify their existence. And that, as much as i see, isn't the fun from arty-driver's side. Also it encourages me not to plan my moves/think while i play, because "arty will not get me anyways even when i don't move an inch".

PS! su-5/su-26 are too low tier artys to get the real understanding of the effects that "arty-killer patch" had on them and their playability. Try to grind up to su-8 and you see some "wonders"

What would solve all this "omg i got pwned by arty" qqing is simple message log showing dmg reports. "Xyz has hit you for zyx dmg and damaged our ammo rack". Game probably has something like this with modul dmg since it shows down the screen, problem is, its unrollable, disappears fast and doesnt show number of dmg.
So my idea is about creating a toggle-showing, simple log, which would after being made visible show all those simple facts that happened to the player.
It shouldnt be definitely visible all the time, since it can spoil the wiew, and shouldnt be complicated, just show who did damage to me, and only to me. Would it be possible, devs? Just some simple log window?

What brought me to this idea is todays El Halluf i played in the morning. Two zergs of meds hounded in the hilly NW corner while being sniped by heavies and TDs from both sides. One low tier arty managed to finish off some low HP T34, no matter being it the first shot the SPG did in the game and not doing any resious damage, the person started to whine to chat by "i hate arty it ruins the game" messages. People generally dont see TDs and tanks killing them, since as long a shells drops from the skies, its artys fault and unbalancing, like always.

i don't like playing arty after the update because its not fun anymore. find a target, aim for it he moves, you aim again, loosing time, being useless and u finnaly fire the shot and guess what? you missed, grrr, then u w8 35+sec more for another hit while your team mate is already dead because u missed the shot. then u'r beeing flamed and called useless as u truly are after the update.    


so either bring it back like it was be4 the update or decrease reloading speed (and maybe lower the dmg). lets say u fire every 20 sec with slight less dmg. if u miss a shot it isn't so bad because in 20 sec u got another chance to fire which is much faster than be4 and u get more fun in playing because u'r more active in game.

 tarellond, on 03 January 2011 - 04:37 PM, said:

that's true also,
on more occasions when i was playing SU-85 with 107mm gun i would snipe down some hvy with crit hit then he would comment something like: fkn arty and i had problems convincing him that it was my shot who dmged him.

 exori, on 03 January 2011 - 04:58 PM, said:

A HE fired from a tank from the top of the mountain into the valley looks just like an arty shell

 sharpeh, on 03 January 2011 - 06:48 AM, said:

Heh.  Making it unplayable is the equivalent to removing it.  If it is not worth playing, only beginners will try it, then abandon it.  And long term, it will be a dead woodchuck rotting under the porch.

So either it is made playable and a main part of the battle, or it becomes a useless nerf'd stub that no one bothers with.  As of right now, it will become that useless stub.

Personally, I don't care which.  I can adapt my play to handle anything.

 Ice8205, on 03 January 2011 - 05:35 PM, said:

I have to agree w/you - it needs a purpose.  I've noticed an uptick in people saying "thanks arty" lately.  Shocked me actually.  Usually some lower tier medium getting molested by something he can't take solo (i.e. T34/85 vrs IS-3) or something like that.

I've also noticed (human mind finding a pattern where none exist?) that some games with my hummel are almost like "normal".  I can hit many tanks.  Other games, I'm literally firing 4 to 6 rounds and hitting nothing before I die...  really weird, as I know it has something to do with my team (keeping people spotted long enough for me to aim) and the other team (sitting still long enough to get shot at).  But I also feel that there is some kind of "random" check made before battle as to whether or not the accuracy is nerfed or not..  Really strange.

In any event, I've taken up the challenge of the TD line, and am almost ready to buy my SU-100...  We shall see how that goes.

 Yankeegunner, on 03 January 2011 - 07:48 PM, said:

I have noticed this as well in my Hummel- seems some games the gun hits, and some games it never hits - very obvious in the Wespe too - have taken to calling it the "Roulette Cannon"

and yet my su-26 still dominates any game it plays in  


go figure

While i wouldn't go as far as to call the arty unplayable, because it still is playable (the number of arty per battles is evidence to this, and the fact that my SU14 still pwns a lot of stuff), i can clearly state that the patch hasn't made anyone happy, in fact it has made just more people unhappy with arty.

For the regular tankers the new patch doesn't change much to arty, now a days the arty might miss once before LOL-Pwning what's it aiming at (or totally ruining it's day), so random instant death by arty is still here = Tankers are still annoyed with arty mechanics and thus the devs.

Scouts hate it, not only is it getting harder and harder to get those good scout runs in but now even when they do, there's a random chance that the arty gave up track and gun to find will escape alive because of a hidden 'roll' that makes the incoming hand of god miss. So they die and get very little for their troubles = Scouts are now more annoyed with the arty mechanics and the devs.

Arty will hate it, long reloads, fast moving targets, super sensible accuracy, broken LoS and the chance that one of those 2 shells per min will miss really takes it's toll, we are now playing world of waiting to reload. So they miss because of the random 'roll' and then they miss because it went invisible and then they miss because they made a mistake = Arty is now annoyed with arty mechanics and the devs.

Well we've made everyone equally unhappy with the arty mechanics, i guess you could call that progress.

 MasterWolf, on 02 January 2011 - 02:49 AM, said:

I've been using mainly the IS series in this game and I have to say this is blatantly untrue. Yes the Russian IS series is unbalanced, but in no way are the artillery pieces ineffective at stopping them. I used to drive an SU-14 and I've one shot IS-4's on multiple occasions in it. Not only that, but I just got an IS-4 and it's pretty much unplayable due to high tier artillery, especially on open maps like Komarin and Malinovka. I can't move forward at all due to both the broken viewing system and the fact that an artillery piece can take off 90+% of my hp in one shot, and it's a complete waste of a tier 9 tank. Unless the enemy artillery gets destroyed I have to spend the entire map hiding behind a building or else I will get destroyed by something I can't see and have no defense against, which puts the other team at a major advantage. The artillery makes this tank WORTHLESS.

 FangTwo, on 04 January 2011 - 02:18 AM, said:

Ah yes - Russian Arty - big damage, high accuracy, slow reload - not really hurt it seems by the patch - compared to the other trees from what people are saying.

 MasterWolf, on 04 January 2011 - 10:01 AM, said:

Well... I'd correct you - big damage IF you manage to hit something other than landscape... Decent accuracy IF you _were_ patient enough and you fought lethargic enemies. Now (post-patch) even the patience of the turtle won't help you if your hand happens to move a fraction of a pixel... And to top it of - reload measurable by centuries if not even eons... It seems always that the tree you are running is getting the strongest hit by the nerf-bat. But truth is that your wespe and hummel didn't get any "special attention" from patch... All arty models got beaten...

This picture is from a game during 0.6.2.7 patch and our whole team was hiding behind cover the whole match. Yet the SUs somehow managed to shoot all of us. Only our last panther moved away from our base when their tanks attacked us and we had only that panther and 3 arties left on our side.



Everyone can draw their own conclusions from here.

Well, its almost unprotected corner and russian T6 with their huge dmg and splash were shooting you ...
As regards el halluf, you can hide well in the passages along the map boundaries towards this corner, but this corner is a total grave, ive seen 13 tanks die there in 2 minutes. Really not the best spot to fight, either because of arty or TDs.

 Mr_Weedy, on 04 January 2011 - 02:26 PM, said:

Only conclusion I can draw from here is that you weren't completely hiding the whole match. How else can you explain some enemy tanks being killed? Also when you can't see the enemy, because some rock is between you and the position you _assume_ enemy is, doesn't mean right away that enemy can't shoot you - they can move to one side or the other and shoot you from the flank. Also you can't shoot enemy through impenetrable obstacles - you must peek out from there and that's the moment what good arty "pilot" uses and when they are patient and lucky enough, they can kill you at those moments. Also arty can see not only tracers from other arties, but also from tanks. So they can use them as sort of beacon (not the best shot, but better than completely blind shots). One more point is that arty shells land from above (sadly not directly from above) and with that they still can hit you when cover is not high enough. Plus don't forget the splash damage that does not much but still some damage.

Also... Hiding behind cover = being stationary target = being easier to hit (but still nowhere near 100% sure) -> once arty knows where you are camping, he knows where to concentrate his focus and only thing that holds him back then is his insane reload times.

Later addition: Also, when you look out profiles of those two arty players, you see, that they are quite experienced arty-players, so one can assume they know a thing or two about how arty might work and they might know how to implement that knowledge, not just "point and click". And for example the place your wreck is in that battle (according to mini-map), is quite well and directly bombardable (no really big obstacles in direct LoS for arty trajectory) from squares J5, K5 & K6.

The SU-8 is absolute garbage now.

I gave it the benefit of the doubt and fitted it out with 100% crews +10% aiming and loading equipment but it is a complete waste of a Tank slot.

No Tank that is stationary can stay revealed long enough for the aiming reticle to zero-in, without being killed by other tanks first.

On the rare occassion that you can get the reticle zero'ed (by ignoring the rest of the battlefield and just staying focused on a last known location until the precise location is revealed) still results in the majority of shots completely missing stationary targets.

I have played all Tank classes effectively and am fully aware that "sometimes" in a single battle you may get a few shots to hit their targets but with every other class you can consistently hit multiple targets every battle.

While SPG's used to be my favourite class, I will not bother with them anymore as they currently are.
_____

If the devs want to "spread" the damage out as indicated by the larger aiming reticle then the round should do less damage but to the whole area, instead of "Random acts of God".

or keep the reticles tight and the reloads fast, penetration high but the damage low.

Now that we have played bit longer with new patch i have noticed differences on how arty play. My own playing style has changed too first i didnt notice it, but now i see that i dont hunt enemy arty any more. I shoot them if our scout spot one, but i used to hunt arty whole game at same time (when i was loading or just loaded i searched arty and observed other tanks from minimap and was ready to fire tanks when it seemed for me that it's needed or when arty support was called) when i hunted enemy tanks. Also enemy arty doesnt seem to hunt my arty anymore. Only sometimes and it's much more peaceful for arty now.

People still camp maybe even more, but camping has changed players now camp also in bushes where they dont have any real cover unless they don shoot at all. Result is arty counter battery has changed to "Search mids from bushes battery".    So i noticed that i kill much more mediums and mid tier heavys like tigers and also lights that i used to shoot only if they where coming to kill me. So primary objectives used to be 1. Tanks that scout you 2. Enemy arty 3. High tier heavys and also calls for arty support was high. Now me and other artys kill much more tier 4-7 tanks and enemy arty is mostly left alone by arty. Arty doesnt help tanks much anymore because it's really risky to shoot for help your teammates since artys doesnt want teamkills. Every day more artys notice this and change they way to play since it brings more exp and credits.

Update mostly just made camping worse, took a lot of fun away from arty, killed pretty much arty support for a team, made mid tier players game worse etc. Cant find first good thing that update brought.

So it now seems that this update eventually made things worse for most players and also those who first started to complain about arty and made this update to come reality wich is kinda funny. Kicking your own knee isnt good idea.

I don't know what the issue is with arty or what the fix is. I do know that EVERY game I join with no arty in it people are cheering (including me) and its a general party on both teams while the start timer counts down. Something is seriously wrong with them to cause such an effect.