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12 Battles in a T-54


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ekental #41 Posted 02 January 2011 - 09:21 PM

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While I understand how having experience playing the T54 is useful. I don't think your experience in 12 battles shows how it shapes up against other tanks of it's tier.

On paper, the T-54 outclasses both the Panther II and Pershing in raw stats by a fair margin.

But taking it into games is just as important when you're doing comparisons. The problem I have with your post is that you haven't played the mediums from any other tier, which makes it hard to do a comparison.

Personally, I have a T23 & a Panther II, although I've logged a fair few matches on a T-44 on a friends account to. Generally speaking, the T23 has speed, the Panther has poor maneuverability and handling but a good gun, and the T-44 has good armor, maneuverability, and almost as much speed.


The problem with the T-54 is that it has the most speed, maneuverability, and packs a gun that can easily penetrate any of it's counterparts from any angle except the obvious glancing shots.

WoT is a game that punishes you for being out of position or making poor choices in where you want to go or what you want to be doing.

With the Panther II, being out of position means at the least, losing HP. With the T54, the armor and steep sloping means that even if you make a mistake, you have a good chance to avoid being punished, while the speed and maneuverability means that even when you're caught out of position or you're blind sighted by a lot of enemies, you can easily reposition, and advantage the Panther II doesn't have.

What I'm getting at is the T54 is a very forgiving tank. You can make mistakes on it and get away with it a lot more often than any other medium in the same tier. Drivers of the other Tier 9s flat out have to play better to beat one simply because a mistake on their part is more likely to be damaging than the reverse.

I don't think that's the way it should be at all. People should be rewarded for playing well, not choosing the right tank.

Benaulim #42 Posted 02 January 2011 - 09:28 PM

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View Postthejoker91, on 02 January 2011 - 08:33 PM, said:

(...) Panther II and Pershing need to do magic to penetrate the T-54, T-54 can just autoaim and fire away. (...)

Nonsense. We all know that autoaim doesn't work like that anymore. About the only targets I use it upon are artillery units when I approach them while evading their shot(s), especially when there's more than one around since I then need to keep moving. Not to mention that you would be surprised on how many targets I do bounce or hit for zero damage even with thorough manual aiming.

In any case you don't want a T-54 be able to circle you. Which isn't that hard to prevent except you run into it on one of the rare plains without any obstacle (or boundary) to back up against. Nothing has changed here since the days when the T-44s were considered to be overpowered. Same goes for the simple lesson that you never want to engage a T-54 on your own.

Last but not least the T-54 still only uses a 100mm meaning it takes quite a while to take down a target (starting with two hits needed for Leos or A-20s). The other day I watched two hostile T-54s approaching our last tank, an afk'ing Tiger (t7). They shot him from front and side and each hit caused like 16-17% of damage ...

Paavopesusieni #43 Posted 02 January 2011 - 09:33 PM

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View Postgrdja, on 02 January 2011 - 08:00 PM, said:

I'll say once again that T-54 has least HP and DPM of all T9 meds.

Except with its huge unrealistic armor it won't lose any of that HP.

View PostNazgutek, on 02 January 2011 - 08:04 PM, said:

People seem to think the T-54 should not compare to an IS-4, VK4502, or T34.

What!? Of course tier 9 mediums shouldnt be comparable to Tier 9 HEAVY TANK. This super medium has armor of a heavy and damn good and accurate gun and it's small. Armor shouldn't allow mediums to play like heavy and ignore all lower tier tanks like heavy can do, it is MEDIUM tank with MOBILITY and lower match making weight. Also it's the only medium that can play like heavy and is also fastest with really good gun (best medium gun after PAnther II gun).

The MOBILITY, ARMOR and GUN is all damn good in this tank, it has with no real weakness. Nerf is needed in my opinion. Of course all the T-54 players and russian mediums players (except me and few others) think that it's is not OP when they play the tank like it's undestructible and die and then say that they died so can't be OP.

Baine #44 Posted 02 January 2011 - 09:43 PM

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I want to add, i have despised all the people that cried "Russian Devs = Russian tanks op", and never felt that way with any of the other tanks.
But the T54... is really outstanding when it comes to the combination of firepower, armour and mobility.

ekental #45 Posted 02 January 2011 - 10:02 PM

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View PostBenaulim, on 02 January 2011 - 09:28 PM, said:

Nonsense. We all know that autoaim doesn't work like that anymore. About the only targets I use it upon are artillery units when I approach them while evading their shot(s), especially when there's more than one around since I then need to keep moving. Not to mention that you would be surprised on how many targets I do bounce or hit for zero damage even with thorough manual aiming.

In any case you don't want a T-54 be able to circle you. Which isn't that hard to prevent except you run into it on one of the rare plains without any obstacle (or boundary) to back up against. Nothing has changed here since the days when the T-44s were considered to be overpowered. Same goes for the simple lesson that you never want to engage a T-54 on your own.

Last but not least the T-54 still only uses a 100mm meaning it takes quite a while to take down a target (starting with two hits needed for Leos or A-20s). The other day I watched two hostile T-54s approaching our last tank, an afk'ing Tiger (t7). They shot him from front and side and each hit caused like 16-17% of damage ...

I think what he means is the T54 can penetrate other Tier 9 mediums at any angle, while the reverse is not true. Personally I find it offensive auto-aim aims straight at the turret, so I don't use it.

A lot has actually changed since the T-44 vs the Panther. The most notable being that the upped Tier 9 medium guns all have the same penetration, which goes a long way to eliminating the reason why you would pick a Panther over say.. a T-44.
Added to that, all the advantages that the T-44 had over the Panther (armor, speed, maneuverability) have been compounded to the point where the Panther II has trouble penetrating the T-54 from the front, an advantage the T-44 did not share.

I'm actually uncertain what paradigm your talking about that actually has transferred from the T-44/Panther relationship over to the T-54/Panther II one and it's a little ridiculous to say that you need team-mates to take a tank of equal tier on your own.
I expect to be able to outshout a T-54 if they engage say.. my Panther II in a long range shooting contest or charge at me from 500 meters away. That's the supposed strength of a Panther II in the first place. But instead I find that T-54s have a good chance of ignoring so many shots that I need to maneuver to get a shot at their side at close range if I want a chance at winning.

As for the T54's gun, the DPS is almost exactly the same, Panther II's get a little over 1% more DPS with their upped gun, so I'm not sure what you're on about there.

aggressive_perfector #46 Posted 02 January 2011 - 10:29 PM

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There's too many posts, so I'm not going to specifically respond to any of them and am going to throw a few points out:
You can throw anecdotes around all day, but it's the general trends that matter. I've had a Leopard bounce an IS-3's BL-9 from the rear before but that doesn't mean it occurs on a regular basis. I see people claiming they bounce shots all day with their Ferdinand or ISU-152, but looking at the stats, assuming the sloping gives 240mm effective armor (Which has yet to be experimentally established - the IS-3 in theory has over 220mm hull armor head-on, but 175mm will penetrate it all day) and the TD has the final gun, they will still penetrate more than half the time. So, the people in these TDs talking about how their shots always seem to bounce must either not have a fully upgraded TD, have incredibly bad luck, or are suffering from selective memory.

I've gone up against Panther IIs a few times and I do think the T-54 beats it by a wide margin head on. I don't take this as a sign that the T-54 needs a nerf - rather, the Panther II needs a buff. I haven't played against the Pershing enough to form an opinion. As a T9 tank that gets placed in matches where there are almost always two or more Superheavies on each side, I don't think having just one side that provides a measure of protection against their guns is unwarranted. Let's not forget the Panther II's niche role is from a longer range - I just had a game where a Panther II and I were shooting at another Panther II in a hull-down position. The Panther II was able to hit his turret and penetrate multiple times, while I was having trouble penetrating with my LB-1. I imagine that if I had a D-54, I'd be penetrating more but at the same time landing less hits.

Nazgutek #47 Posted 02 January 2011 - 10:46 PM

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View PostPaavopesusieni, on 02 January 2011 - 09:33 PM, said:

What!? Of course tier 9 mediums shouldnt be comparable to Tier 9 HEAVY TANK.

You don't 'get' Tiers.

WolfHeart #48 Posted 02 January 2011 - 10:48 PM

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View Postaggressive_perfector, on 02 January 2011 - 10:29 PM, said:

I don't take this as a sign that the T-54 needs a nerf - rather, the Panther II needs a buff.
As a Panther II driver I disagree with both statements :)
You see, I don't believe we should judge both vehicles based on how they perform against each other. It's completely fine if a T-54 is better than a Panther II - after all, there's got to be a winner in this competition. But I also don't think that any medium should feel completely invulnerable to, for instance, a one tier lower medium, or two tiers lower heavy.
Sure, Panther II is reliably penetrated even by a Panzer IV with a long 75 mm, and I see no problem with that. A medium tank should not work as a damage soaker. Find some cover. Use evasive maneuvering. Hide. My conclusion is, the only real issue with the T-54 is its frontal armor - it's much too effective.
And about a PII buff - the only thing I could really think of is the stock cannon, which is a sick joke. Aside from that, it's completely fine IMO.

enu_ #49 Posted 02 January 2011 - 10:53 PM

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stock cannon on T-54 is also a joke :)

WolfHeart #50 Posted 02 January 2011 - 11:07 PM

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Perhaps... but it doesn't have 138 avg penetration ;)

ekental #51 Posted 03 January 2011 - 01:20 AM

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View Postillidan, on 02 January 2011 - 10:53 PM, said:

stock cannon on T-54 is also a joke :)
Here you go, pick a gun for your Tier 9 medium tank.

Posted Image

Ivin #52 Posted 03 January 2011 - 01:34 AM

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View Postillidan, on 02 January 2011 - 10:53 PM, said:

stock cannon on T-54 is also a joke :)

LOL yes we get it illidan, you are a Russian fanboy with only 50 of you 2100+ battles in tanks other then Russian.

For starter the T54 starter gun is unbelievably better then the Panther II's gun and significatly better then the Pershings.

and secondly if you want to compare tanks in history the T-54/55 has been the biggest joke of a tank.  every major tank battle they have been involved in they have lost.  so get over youself and learn a little about what you are talking about before you open your mouth.

lyone #53 Posted 03 January 2011 - 02:18 AM

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if you want to keep the German tanks down, you have to kick them in the bullocks too. hence, the gun deficiency.

Dravin #54 Posted 03 January 2011 - 02:18 AM

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What i find more hilarious then the t-54 being overpowered are the people saying the t-54 isn't overpowered... lol

I have friends with t-54's and they all laugh their ***** off at what they can accomplish in matches with that tank, i personally don't own one, i own a pershing and i enjoy it for what it is and not what it aint, against panther 2's i generally win 1v1 matches, against t-54's i generally lose and believe me i know where to shoot :)

Maybe after the dev's get some numbers over the next few weeks and see what kinda creation they developed and will tone it down a bit, they like to use actual in-game stats ie; win % etc for these kinda judgement calls and if people actually take the time to view the stats of players driving t-54's you will notice anywhere from a 5% to 20% increase in their win % over any other tank they drive.

In the end i believe the dev's will see this and try to balance it out a bit, atleast i have to believe that  :Smile_great:

In the mean time we'll just have to deal with them matches where opposing teams can get up to 6 t-54's and just steam roll their opponents... i tried to get our GW Tiger driver to use his sattelite dish to call in a nuclear strike on them t-54's but he informed me that a t-54 already took out his dish  :D

Paavopesusieni #55 Posted 03 January 2011 - 03:05 AM

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View PostNazgutek, on 02 January 2011 - 10:46 PM, said:

You don't 'get' Tiers.

I don't understand at all what you are trying to say.

enu_ #56 Posted 03 January 2011 - 03:29 AM

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View Postekental, on 03 January 2011 - 01:20 AM, said:

Here you go, pick a gun for your Tier 9 medium tank.

Posted Image
i'll pick the left one, every 2 shots made by D-10T u get 3 with L/70
but i can't mount L/70 on T-54 so u must go with D-10T

View PostIvin, on 03 January 2011 - 01:34 AM, said:

LOL yes we get it illidan, you are a Russian fanboy with only 50 of you 2100+ battles in tanks other then Russian.

For starter the T54 starter gun is unbelievably better then the Panther II's gun and significatly better then the Pershings.

and secondly if you want to compare tanks in history the T-54/55 has been the biggest joke of a tank.  every major tank battle they have been involved in they have lost.  so get over youself and learn a little about what you are talking about before you open your mouth.
i played with german tanks before softwipe, russian are better for me :)
i'm not fanboy, i enjoyed playing with T-44, and after so much wining to nerf T-44 (and destroying him tottaly) i stopped, played some russian heavies waiting for a new medium with which i can play. so it arrives.
and for the last sentence in your post, u r totally right, tonight i was killed by Pershing, SU-152 and many more tanks, but i won't whine here to nerf all those tanks because i was killed by them.


oh i forgot, it's going to be nerfed soon, so no need to grind for him ;)

Ivin #57 Posted 03 January 2011 - 05:03 AM

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View Postillidan, on 03 January 2011 - 03:29 AM, said:

i'll pick the left one, every 2 shots made by D-10T u get 3 with L/70
but i can't mount L/70 on T-54 so u must go with D-10T

i played with german tanks before softwipe, russian are better for me :)
i'm not fanboy, i enjoyed playing with T-44, and after so much wining to nerf T-44 (and destroying him tottaly) i stopped, played some russian heavies waiting for a new medium with which i can play. so it arrives.
and for the last sentence in your post, u r totally right, tonight i was killed by Pershing, SU-152 and many more tanks, but i won't whine here to nerf all those tanks because i was killed by them.


oh i forgot, it's going to be nerfed soon, so no need to grind for him ;)

you really have NO understanding of this game and if you chose a gun that does 138 pen over 175 ......................................... Edited /Tanitha.

also they never "nerfed" the T-44 only fixed the warping issue. and don't say the -5% engine power was a nerf as they did the same to the Panther.

No insults please, Warning +1 /Tanitha

Pahech #58 Posted 03 January 2011 - 05:57 AM

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Troll?  Even if I don't think a fully upgraded T-54 is overpowered compared to a fully upgraded Panther II, I still think a stock Panther II is ludicrously bad.  The 75/70 has no place on a tier 9 battlefield.  Honestly as a T-54 driver I feel bad about stock PIIs that just gets absolutely murdered by everything tier 8+.  They should have that 75/100 as stock gun.

Benaulim #59 Posted 03 January 2011 - 11:37 AM

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View PostIvin, on 03 January 2011 - 05:03 AM, said:

(...) also they never "nerfed" the T-44 only fixed the warping issue. and don't say the -5% engine power was a nerf as they did the same to the Panther.

I think he meant the known issues with the matchmaking. T-44s getting balanced against IS-3s and KTs was neither fun nor did it help your team.

Hornet331 #60 Posted 03 January 2011 - 11:51 AM

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indeed




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