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Games ruined at Tier II (whine thread)

T18 Pz.IC

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Stokkolm #41 Posted 31 May 2013 - 12:45 PM

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Dear MartiniHenrie, you are an average player with 3316 battles and from your posts I can tell your understanding of the game is close to zero, and your got near 1000 WN7 rating probably just thanks to quick reflexes. That's ok, no one can be perfect. But please refrain from trolling and insulting other people. Thanks.

Justerin #42 Posted 31 May 2013 - 12:50 PM

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Anyway, I really enjoy tier 1-3 battles. In very rare cases I pick T18 and I didn't ever try German vehicles. So I don't agree with the topic starter.

PS: I'm still a noob with 1.5k games

Edited by Justerin, 31 May 2013 - 12:51 PM.


MartiniHenrie #43 Posted 31 May 2013 - 12:50 PM

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View PostStokkolm, on 31 May 2013 - 12:45 PM, said:

Dear MartiniHenrie, you are an average player with 3316 battles and from your posts I can tell your understanding of the game is close to zero, and your got near 1000 WN7 rating probably just thanks to quick reflexes. That's ok, no one can be perfect. But please refrain from trolling and insulting other people. Thanks.

Dear Stokkolm,

I don't care about how many games you have played, nor about your WN7.  They mean nothing to me.  Your views on the game however are insulting and poorly thought through.  If you think that pointing out the obvious flaws in your arguments is trolling then you need to grow up some.

I understand the game just fine, and it appears that I understand how game balancing works better than you as well.  Thank you for attending, but until you can come up with valid, defensible arguments I will continue to to 'troll' you by pointing out the error of your ways.

Oh to clear up, I'm an oldish fart, so reactions are not gonna be anywhere as snappy as the kids that play...

:glasses:

Edited by MartiniHenrie, 31 May 2013 - 01:06 PM.


mad0mat #44 Posted 31 May 2013 - 12:53 PM

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I love my Pz1C. Great stress and rage relief after playing with morons in higher tiers. One max two games a day. I don't really care if I lose or win in it. Just pure driving fun with astonishing 80 km/h. Yeah it is seal clubbing, but my dear how fun this little bugger is. Nerf it if you want, I will just switch back to Pz II.

Stokkolm #45 Posted 31 May 2013 - 12:53 PM

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View PostMartiniHenrie, on 31 May 2013 - 12:50 PM, said:

I understand the game just fine, and it appears that I understand how game balancing works better than you as well.

Of course you have a very good opinion about yourself. That's very logical: http://en.wikipedia....-Kruger_effect

Edited by Stokkolm, 31 May 2013 - 01:03 PM.


Jigabachi #46 Posted 31 May 2013 - 01:01 PM

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Just a little hint: The OP probably got negrepped because he's basically saying "OMG! Those tanks annoy me when I'm sealclubbing! NERF!!!" instead of just stating the facts.
But what he said is pretty much true.

T18 is definitely OP. Rebought it for the last T18-thread and played some matches with 50% crew and only a camonet. And if an average player like me, who completely abandoned the lower tiers when all those autoloaders came in (they duck it all up pretty well, too), can wreck THAT much chaos... it could be that there is something wrong.
And btw: BOTH guns are deadly. Derp just one- or twoshots everything, accuracy is only a small issue, especially if you sit in the second line. And the other one (better for loners) is very fast - with good pen, accuracy and damage.

Same for the 1C and other chaingun tanks. Sometimes they don't pen anything, but as soon as you use the speed and agility to your advantage, you will kill everything in seconds. That's why I hate the lower tiers.


View PostHarland, on 31 May 2013 - 02:15 AM, said:

I hope those tanks will never get nerfed, because they force newbies to use tactics and teamplay to kill them, instead of going point and shoot.
That is nonsense.
We're talking about tII... in a game that doesn't explain anything besides how to move forward and use autoaim.

MartiniHenrie #47 Posted 31 May 2013 - 01:02 PM

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View PostStokkolm, on 31 May 2013 - 12:53 PM, said:

Of course you have a very good opinion about yourself. That's very logical: http://en.wikipedia....-Kruger_effect.
Hey, you're sooo cool, nice link to an empty wiki page, pretty sums up your discourse skills  :trollface:

Can we get back onto topic, or have you run out of real reasons as to why you want these two tanks nerfed to satisfy your hurt feelings, because loosing a tank in a game to something that does't work how you specifically want it too is bad?

:playing:

Stokkolm #48 Posted 31 May 2013 - 01:07 PM

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Corrected the link, but it wasn't for you anyway, you wouldn't understand it.
No, we cannot get back on-topic as long as you are present around. Everything you post is off-topic from start. Better go to thread more suited for you to discuss what tank you should grind next or how to earn credits, and leave complex matters for more experienced players.

MartiniHenrie #49 Posted 31 May 2013 - 01:11 PM

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View PostStokkolm, on 31 May 2013 - 01:07 PM, said:

Corrected the link, but it wasn't for you anyway, you wouldn't understand it.
No, we cannot get back on-topic as long as you are present around. Everything you post is off-topic from start. Better go to thread more suited for you to discuss what tank you should grind next or how to earn credits, and leave complex matters for more experienced players.
So where does that leave you, as you are so obviously clueless?

Spoiler                     


vargata #50 Posted 31 May 2013 - 01:13 PM

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View PostMartiniHenrie, on 31 May 2013 - 01:02 PM, said:

Hey, you're sooo cool, nice link to an empty wiki page, pretty sums up your discourse skills  :trollface:

Can we get back onto topic, or have you run out of real reasons as to why you want these two tanks nerfed to satisfy your hurt feelings, because loosing a tank in a game to something that does't work how you specifically want it too is bad?

:playing:

u are not just hopeless u are an awful noob. u dont do anything just say it hurt us cos we can play against it... no, we can. you the newbies cant.

when the new low tiers came in i had to sit back in case of making my techtree looks good again. i've played only one battle with the t-60 and then quickly sold it. 2000 xp for trampling down the whole enemy team... newbies has enogh problems when an older goes back to play lower tier tanks, they dont need an op enemy to learn. they will not learn from being trampled, it will just drive them away from the game. on any level balance is one of the most important thing and that one is not balanced. stop just harassing others, learn to play and you will see when you sit in an op tank then you will know its op.

(like when i go to play my beloved matilda :) that is balanced many ways but still in good hands its freaking op)

Edited by vargata, 31 May 2013 - 01:17 PM.


Grabz19 #51 Posted 31 May 2013 - 01:17 PM

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Pz1C is useless if you approach it from a longer distance so don't let it get close to you... and if you are a non-autoloader sniper tank (which is the majority of tier 2 tanks) you can just track it or something, or kill with RoF while it's trying to get to you. The only OP thing about 1C is that all the pros tend to play it. Other than that, it's a really crappy tank which bounces off most tanks, can't snipe and is not very good at carrying matches. Plus, a little angle can make it bounce half the drum.

No comment about T18. I think it deserves a nerf to it's gun, ie. it should not have a howitzer.

Edited by Grabarz19_PL, 31 May 2013 - 01:18 PM.


MartiniHenrie #52 Posted 31 May 2013 - 01:27 PM

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View Postvargata, on 31 May 2013 - 01:13 PM, said:

u are not just hopeless u are an awful noob. u dont do anything just say it hurt us cos we can play against it... no, we can. you the newbies cant.

when the new low tiers came in i had to sit back in case of making my techtree looks good again. i've played only one battle with the t-60 and then quickly sold it. 2000 xp for trampling down the whole enemy team... newbies has enogh problems when an older goes back to play lower tier tanks, they dont need an op enemy to learn. they will not learn from being trampled, it will just drive them away from the game. on any level balance is one of the most important thing and that one is not balanced. stop just harassing others, learn to play and you will see when you sit in an op tank then you will know its op.

(like when i go to play my beloved matilda :) that is balanced many ways but still in good hands its freaking op)

Sticking with the personal rather than the proof, well I can rise above that.

New players need to 'learn to play' quite literally.  If they do not learn such lessons at tier 1, 2 or three then where do you stop with the nerfs because so and so feels OP because if you play it a certain way it does this?  In the lower tiers the auto cannon is king because most tanks have little armor on any facing, what happens when they hit tier 4-5 with those same weapons?  They don't work so well, so what do we do to make them competitive in comparison with their low tier equivalent?  You can't by design.

Each tank at that tier has it's weakness, but some of them you have to put some effort in your play to take advantage of said weakness.  Learning these simple (to experienced players) tricks will stand them in good stead for later tiers, where you can still be one shotted regardless.  Some life lessons are harsh, and some lessons need to be learned before you can advance.  Either way you still have to learn, and wrapping early tiers in cotton woll does the game no favours.

If they were OP, I would agree, but they have too many flaws to make them game breaking...

Turnipsi #53 Posted 31 May 2013 - 01:42 PM

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It's funny to see t18 players roll around all high and mighty until I start penning them with my tetrarch.

PZ. 1 C gets f***** in higher tiers even though it is really good against tier 2 and 3.

Stokkolm #54 Posted 31 May 2013 - 01:53 PM

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View PostMartiniHenrie, on 31 May 2013 - 01:27 PM, said:

New players need to 'learn to play' quite literally.  If they do not learn such lessons at tier 1, 2 or three then where do you stop with the nerfs because so and so feels OP because if you play it a certain way it does this?  In the lower tiers the auto cannon is king because most tanks have little armor on any facing, what happens when they hit tier 4-5 with those same weapons?  They don't work so well, so what do we do to make them competitive in comparison with their low tier equivalent?  You can't by design.

If you want to teach low tier players to flank tanks, T18 should get the traverse speed reduced from 30 to 15, and the side armor and back armor reduced from 25-32mm ot 20mm so autocannon tanks can pen it at least there. Just giving an example not saying this should actually be done. I have over 2000 battles in turret-less tank destroyers, trust me you can't go around a TD with 30 traverse and 26 HhorsePower/Ton faster than he turns.

how2skate_com #55 Posted 31 May 2013 - 02:02 PM

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View PostStokkolm, on 31 May 2013 - 01:53 PM, said:

If you want to teach low tier players to flank tanks, T18 should get the traverse speed reduced from 30 to 15, and the side armor and back armor reduced from 25-32mm ot 20mm so autocannon tanks can pen it at least there. Just giving an example not saying this should actually be done. I have over 2000 battles in turret-less tank destroyers, trust me you can't go around a TD with 30 traverse and 26 HhorsePower/Ton faster than he turns.

You can't? Well boy I'm doing it on a daily basis with my Pz.II (not the fastest tank at that tier even!).

You linked to the Dunning-Kruger effect, which is exactly what this is about: people cry about losing to a tank that can one-shot them. They can't believe that their amazing tactic of driving straight towards it doesn't work. They think it must be OP if they can't kill it.

I play my Pz.II more regularly than my T18, so I have no reason to defend the T18 other than giving my true opinion.

Also, you lost the discussion in the previous topic, so why do you start from scratch again here? Do we have to throw all the stats in your face again to make you finally stop?

Edited by how2skate_com, 31 May 2013 - 02:04 PM.


MartiniHenrie #56 Posted 31 May 2013 - 02:04 PM

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Nope, no trust at all, because I can, have and used auto cannons to take out T-18's from the flank.  There just is not enough to prove that these two tanks need a nerf beyond the fact that some seal clubbers like to go into the low tiers and take out their frustrations.

Coming up with a bunch of individual what-if cases is not an argument.  So what if some can't pen a T-18 from the front? leave it to those that can, anything that carries a 2 pdr will go through for starters, or do we have to go through each tank in detail (something I can't do because I haven't bothered to play all the low tier tanks yet) which would ultimately be pointless.

You may also want to include evidence given by other players that can reliably pen T-18's from the front, if you are so determined to use anecdotal evidence.

MartiniHenrie #57 Posted 31 May 2013 - 02:05 PM

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View Posthow2skate_com, on 31 May 2013 - 02:02 PM, said:

You can't? Well boy I'm doing it on a daily basis with my Pz.II (not the fastest tank at that tier even!).

You linked to the Dunning-Kruger effect, which is exactly what this is about: people cry about losing to a tank that can one-shot them. They can't believe that their amazing tactic of driving straight towards it doesn't work. They think it must be OP if they can't kill it.

I play my Pz.II more regularly than my T18, so I have no reason to defend the T18 other than giving my true opinion.

Also, you lost the discussion in the previous topic, so why do you start from scratch again here? Do we have to throw all the stats in your face again to make you finally stop?

Ha ha, owned  :trollface:

xCaptainObviousx #58 Posted 31 May 2013 - 02:28 PM

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View PostMartiniHenrie, on 31 May 2013 - 01:02 PM, said:

Hey, you're sooo cool, nice link to an empty wiki page, pretty sums up your discourse skills  :trollface:
:playing:

The WoT forum likes to break links, let's try that again.
http://en.wikipedia....g–Kruger_effect

taattis #59 Posted 31 May 2013 - 02:38 PM

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I am amazed at how can anyone defend T18 in its current state.

MartiniHenrie #60 Posted 31 May 2013 - 02:46 PM

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View PostxCaptainObviousx, on 31 May 2013 - 02:28 PM, said:

The WoT forum likes to break links, let's try that again.
http://en.wikipedia....g–Kruger_effect
Thank you for correcting the link.  Interesting reading.

Nope, doesn't apply Stokkolm.  I know that I have gaps in my knowledge of the game, and I also know that I haven't played the top tier tanks, so cannot comment on them either.  What I do have is enough experience to form a cogent argument that I can defend, and not just rely on anecdotal evidence and personal attacks.

I am also open to having my mind changed when provided a reasonable argument backed with good evidence, some thing which is lacking in this case.





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