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What is the fuss with swastikas?


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Poll: Swastikas (40 members have cast votes)

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What is the fuss with swastikas?

  1. The things Adolf and his troops did (18 votes [45.00%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 45.00%

  2. The possible rise of Neo-Nazism (13 votes [32.50%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 32.50%

  3. Other, what? (9 votes [22.50%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 22.50%

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Laatikkomafia #1 Posted 02 July 2013 - 05:36 AM

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First of all, I am not a Neo-Nazi.
I just listened the Jingles' explanation why he was thrown out of Tankfest (WG quarters),
and I just wondered why pictures of historical symbols are still tabu?

Is it just the deeds of the Nazi Germany? Like other countries didn't do horrible things?
Could everyone just agree that it is just a historical symbol, with a dark hue?

Richthoffen #2 Posted 02 July 2013 - 06:01 AM

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looking at your name i guess your from Finland, that used the swastica itself not related to nazi Germany.
however in some european nations (Germany) nazi symbools are forbidden by law and as such wg has to comply with all european laws or atleast the laws of the countries it has customers

if your not from Finland, sorry for assuming that

s2k11 #3 Posted 02 July 2013 - 06:05 AM

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View PostLaatikkomafia, on 02 July 2013 - 05:36 AM, said:

First of all, I am not a Neo-Nazi.
How I hate such sentences. :( But everybody is used to say it or they are pidgeon-holed faster they can look. This world sucks.

For me it's important to have them in some video games. For example Wolfenstein. Here they are part of the atmosphere. In the german version of this game, all swastikas were replaced. So I just bought the us version.
On some planes [Edit: in WoWp (haven't seen this is the WoT forum :D)] I miss them too, but in this game they are not this important for the atmosphere.

I think people should take a closer look at the context. If it is in historical context, they just should accept it (in germany they are allowed for historical purpose - but only historical documentations und stuff like this). But most man have the "EVERYTHING is bad" mood. So they just don't want to allow anything linked to the 3. Reich. Even the good ones (yes, there were some of them).

Btw, I think this thread will escalate very fast ;)

Edited by s2k11, 02 July 2013 - 06:11 AM.


Richthoffen #4 Posted 02 July 2013 - 06:09 AM

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View Posts2k11, on 02 July 2013 - 06:05 AM, said:

How I hate such sentences. :( But everybody is used to say it or they are pidgeon-holed faster they can look. This world sucks.

For me it's important to have them in some video games. For example Wolfenstein. Here they are part of the atmosphere. In the german version of this game, all swastikas were replaced. So I just bought the us version.
On some planes I miss them too, but in this game they are not this important for the atmosphere.

I think people should take a closer look at the context. If it is in historical context, they just should accept it (in germany they are accepted in this context - but only historical documentations und stuff like this). But most man have the "EVERYTHING is bad" mood. So they just don't want to allow anything linked to the 3. Reich. Even the good ones (yes, there were some of them).

Btw, I think this thread will escalate very fast ;)

if you visit a military auction site in germany or some site thats has trading of military stuff you will notice a symbols are masked

s2k11 #5 Posted 02 July 2013 - 06:22 AM

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Really? Well, if we take it accurate, this isn't a historical documentation :D But according to my opinon they should be allowed here, too. People and law should distinguish more.

Richthoffen #6 Posted 02 July 2013 - 07:48 AM

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i fail to see how any political symbol adds anything to the game

DasNiveau #7 Posted 02 July 2013 - 07:57 AM

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View PostLaatikkomafia, on 02 July 2013 - 05:36 AM, said:

Could everyone just agree that it is just a historical symbol, with a dark hue?
Would be far to easy. But we have our laws and must respect them. Thats the thing with laws.



View PostRichthoffen, on 02 July 2013 - 07:48 AM, said:

i fail to see how any political symbol adds anything to the game
Tahts why this tread is in OT and not general discussions

TheDOD #8 Posted 02 July 2013 - 10:57 AM

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View Postviens_la_mort, on 02 July 2013 - 06:37 AM, said:

They must forbidden also hammer and sickle!
Stalin was like Hitler a criminal leader.


Posted Image

Exept this is sign of Comunism and not Stalinism. Read what comunism and Nazim is all bout

Nazim: the strongest "race" should dominate the rest of humanity, while "under race" should be exterminated

Comunism Socialism: Make a state where everyone is equal and no one is left behind. The state should eather be a democratic state, or it should not have a leader at all.

Comunism: Classless, Stateless and Moneyless Social order (with other words, total equality)

See the difference? (This is very much shortened if any one is in doubt for some reason, if you want to get deep into the ideologies, get your self "Min Kampf" and "Das Kapital" and "The Comunistic Manifesto")


P.S And no, USSR was far from being comunistic

View PostRichthoffen, on 02 July 2013 - 07:48 AM, said:

i fail to see how any political symbol adds anything to the game

And this

Edited by TheDOD, 02 July 2013 - 11:14 AM.


DasNiveau #9 Posted 02 July 2013 - 11:09 AM

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View PostTheDOD, on 02 July 2013 - 10:57 AM, said:

Nazim: the strongest "race" should dominate the rest of humanity, while "under race" should be exterminated

Comunism: Make a state where everyone is equal and no one is left behind. The state should eather be a democratic state, or it should not have a leader at all.

Nazim: the "aryan" is a better human and should rule over the world
Comunism:  the "communist" is a better human and should rule over the world

TheDOD #10 Posted 02 July 2013 - 11:11 AM

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View PostDasNiveau, on 02 July 2013 - 11:09 AM, said:

Comunism:  the "communist" is a better human and should rule over the world

Exept no one will rule, since the ideal comunism (sorry i discribed socialism in my first post), since you will have Classless, Menetary and matrialist less society

TheDOD #11 Posted 02 July 2013 - 11:16 AM

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View Postviens_la_mort, on 02 July 2013 - 11:13 AM, said:

You know nothing about comunism!
I lived 40 years in comunism, is the same like  the nazi Germany!
Perhaps you are a russian Kid, who never lived in comunism.

Oh, Ofc you lived "in comunism"... Right... There was NO Comunist countries in the History. USSR, Comunist China, Norht Korea, Vietnam, Cuba and tons other supposedly comunist nation was nothing but corrupt totalitarian states, that breatht just as much Capitalism as any other nations.

Just because Nation call it self comunist, Have a Red flag, dos't makes it a Comunist nation.

Go ahed, Neg rep me

BTW, it's internet, you might tell the truth about that you live in a Comunist nation or you might be as well a troll who just have nothing better to do. So "I lived in XYZ nation" dosn't count on the internet

Edited by TheDOD, 02 July 2013 - 11:18 AM.


DasNiveau #12 Posted 02 July 2013 - 11:19 AM

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View PostTheDOD, on 02 July 2013 - 11:11 AM, said:

Exept no one will rule, since the ideal comunism (sorry i discribed socialism in my first post), since you will have Classless, Menetary and matrialist less society
The ideal comunism is a pretty and absolutly unrealistic dream and had NOTHING to do with actual existing comunisms. So please do not even take that into account when comparing these both dictatures.

Edited by DasNiveau, 02 July 2013 - 11:20 AM.


TheDOD #13 Posted 02 July 2013 - 11:23 AM

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View PostDasNiveau, on 02 July 2013 - 11:19 AM, said:

The ideal comunism is a pretty and absolutly unrealistic dream and had NOTHING to do with actual existing comunisms.

Did i say it existed? I said what was the ideal Comunism. That one that existed is just a bad joke compare to to what was planned.

BTW, unrealistic? Classless and Moneyless society without a leader is far from unrealistic. Instead of bits on Computer screen and Paper, you just spread the Resources of the planet across to people. That way we probably would have fixed the povetry in Africa, Asia and other Under developed countries Years ago. It's all about removing the materialistic ideas that people NEED somthing and just make people care about others. Education my friend, is all that needs to be changed

DasNiveau #14 Posted 02 July 2013 - 11:26 AM

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View PostTheDOD, on 02 July 2013 - 11:23 AM, said:

BTW, unrealistic? Classless and Moneyless society without a leader is far from unrealistic. Instead of bits on Computer screen and Paper, you just spread the Resources of the planet across to people. That way we probably would have fixed the povetry in Africa, Asia and other Under developed countries Years ago. It's all about removing the materialistic ideas that people NEED somthing and just make people care about others. Education my friend, is all that needs to be changed
There is just one big problem. I would not work with humans. We are no ants after all. And even with ants there are different colonys.

TheDOD #15 Posted 02 July 2013 - 11:31 AM

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View PostDasNiveau, on 02 July 2013 - 11:26 AM, said:

There is just one big problem. I would not work with humans. We are no ants after all. And even with ants there are different colonys.

Why not? The only thing that is kicking the "ideal Comunist" in the Teeth is the big companies that bombard us with the idea "More, Bigger, Better". Remove the need of the bigger better stuff, and voila, we already on the right way

View Postviens_la_mort, on 02 July 2013 - 11:25 AM, said:

i don't lie, i had enough from the lies of the drunken russian "conselours" in my country.

Fine with me, but that dosn't change the fackt that it was far from Comunism. The only reason Russians is not intirely against the old USSR, is the fact most of them lived better than now.

And, just to get clear, i am against the "old-USSR", but i freaking going to support a Proper well working Socialis or Comunist Union if the candidate for actual plan have a proper brain and have his ideas straight

FreakaMan #16 Posted 02 July 2013 - 11:50 AM

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View PostTheDOD, on 02 July 2013 - 11:23 AM, said:

Did i say it existed? I said what was the ideal Comunism. That one that existed is just a bad joke compare to to what was planned.

BTW, unrealistic? Classless and Moneyless society without a leader is far from unrealistic. Instead of bits on Computer screen and Paper, you just spread the Resources of the planet across to people. That way we probably would have fixed the povetry in Africa, Asia and other Under developed countries Years ago. It's all about removing the materialistic ideas that people NEED somthing and just make people care about others. Education my friend, is all that needs to be changed

Any concept of organization that does not take into consideration human nature and the reality of planet earth is unrealistic.
Resources are limited, thus a human wants to be sure he has enough of them, thus he will stockpile, thus leaving even less resources for others. The definition of "enough" unfortunately is not based on actual need but on comparisson with thy neighbor so competition appears, which leads to classes, monetary system, pseudo-democracies (the ones where most people don't go to vote because they don't feel their choice actually matters), and all the nice things we have.

Ignore the natural drive for competition between humans and you get a fail system like comunism, and it doesn't actually matter if it look good on paper, it's a sum of ideeas that trick people into believing in them while in turn spawning abusers like Stalin and this means it deseves to be incriminated just as much as Nazism.

If you actually want to improve the human race, erradicate poverty and move it past the wasteful capitalism, stop thinking of how systems like comunism sound so good on paper and start learning, become a researcher, discover new methods how we can use our resources better and more efficient and invent the ultimate recycling machine (like the replicator from Star Trek).
Politics will never solve this problem, science might, and chances are slim here too.

RePlayBoy101 #17 Posted 02 July 2013 - 12:11 PM

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View Postviens_la_mort, on 02 July 2013 - 06:37 AM, said:

They must forbidden also hammer and sickle!
Stalin was like Hitler a criminal leader.


Posted Image



dude im with u ... swastika was just a simbol that represented Germany before and during ww2... if hitler didnt didnt do what he did then swastika wuld be used even today (i dont know but it culd)

DasNiveau #18 Posted 02 July 2013 - 12:23 PM

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View PostTheDOD, on 02 July 2013 - 11:31 AM, said:

Why not? The only thing that is kicking the "ideal Comunist" in the Teeth is the big companies that bombard us with the idea "More, Bigger, Better". Remove the need of the bigger better stuff, and voila, we already on the right way
Humans are egoistic. The mayor thing thats kicking the comunism in the teeth are the humans in it. Why should i have the same as anybody else when i could have a bit more ...  an there goes the comunistic dream. Shot right between the eyes. Executed.

Gnomus #19 Posted 02 July 2013 - 02:06 PM

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First: Both Hitler and Stalin were bad guys who made bad things. They shouldn't be glorified, but neither should they be hidden in archives of history. I won't say either was better or worse than other, as both were bad enough.

Difference why Swastika is forbidden in game and Hammer and Sickle are not is that Nazies were declared illegal organization by Nurneberg wartribunal while Stalin has never been found guilty in court of law (or at least not in court important enough). This is why WG doesn't tolarate anything connected to nazism. If you are people with foliohats you can do your own conspiracy theories if it's just judigal reasons and fear of losing German markets or some sinister plan to promote stalinism while forbidding nazism.

In my opinion WG has gone little too far in their anti-nazism. I can understand banning nicknames like 55wiking, but when names like swisscheese (fictional name, but I don't remember anymore all those funny names that were banned because some mystical connection to nazism) are forbidden because they have ss in them things go strange.

Then we had this nice episode when MARS clans logo was forbidden because it had this evil nazisymbol. Logo is Finnish "Vapaudenristi" (http://www.mannerhei...iamerkit/04.htm) (still in use and highest decoration given in Finland). You can check logo of MARS now http://worldoftanks....500003201-MARS/ so it seems WG got it's way. Small but meningfull difference. WG's reasoning was that it was nazi-symbol and so unlawfull and it might offend Germans and brake German law because there swastika is forbidden. Funny thing is that same time Finnish president was visiting Germany and had no problem with Finnish presidential flag (http://commons.wikim...entin_lippu.png).

I think it's ok to have firm line with nazism, but there's no need to be paranoid about it.

BigglesFlysAgain #20 Posted 02 July 2013 - 02:59 PM

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View PostGnomus, on 02 July 2013 - 02:06 PM, said:



Then we had this nice episode when MARS clans logo was forbidden because it had this evil nazisymbol. Logo is Finnish "Vapaudenristi" (http://www.mannerhei...iamerkit/04.htm) (still in use and highest decoration given in Finland). You can check logo of MARS now http://worldoftanks....500003201-MARS/ so it seems WG got it's way. Small but meningfull difference. WG's reasoning was that it was nazi-symbol and so unlawfull and it might offend Germans and brake German law because there swastika is forbidden. Funny thing is that same time Finnish president was visiting Germany and had no problem with Finnish presidential flag (http://commons.wikim...entin_lippu.png).

I think it's ok to have firm line with nazism, but there's no need to be paranoid about it.


Seems a moot point now, but perhaps they could have just created an official Finnish presidential flag for people to use, that way they still get to refuse user submited content with Swastikas which would be somthing they would be keen to avoid, and they could have kept the clan happy too.




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