Jump to content


F2P monetization tricks

F2P

  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
124 replies to this topic

Ioituma #41 Posted 09 July 2013 - 11:21 AM

    Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 10041 battles
  • 1,962
  • Member since:
    05-20-2012

View PostAst3lan, on 09 July 2013 - 11:18 AM, said:

Fair enough, then again why the need for gold to buy camo? What does camo give you? What do Premium tanks bring you? And another question, if people didn't win any gold in CW then.. how would you be able to buy this premium stuff? :blinky:
Camo makes tanks look good.
Premium tanks can be fun to play and some have pretty unique gameplay.
If there was no way to get free gold then CW winners would do the same as everybody, either buy it or play for free.

Ioituma #42 Posted 09 July 2013 - 11:24 AM

    Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 10041 battles
  • 1,962
  • Member since:
    05-20-2012

View PostREDdemidry, on 09 July 2013 - 11:19 AM, said:

Please allow me to put some words in your text, to make it more clear. Thx.

Buy dozens of garage slots, buy a full collection of premium tanks? Buy premium account to be able to grind enough top tiers and buy Camo and buy all other premium boosts for battles ? And so on.

Let me conclude: buy, buy, buy, buy and buy. And so on.
Oh so Sharpneli nailed it, you're that guy obsessed with spending money, Tadada or something. Get a grip man. You're an adult (I guess), no one else but you is holding your credit card.
And in the case we were discussing, it was rewarded gold, ie free gold.

REDdemidry #43 Posted 09 July 2013 - 11:31 AM

    Warrant Officer

  • Player
  • 50 battles
  • 679
  • Member since:
    06-03-2013
I'm the one obsessed, whoever I might be?

Simply enumerating the tons of crap this industry runs on makes me obsessive and the industry just ok. Lol.
They almost created all this by pure chance and concidence.  :trollface:

Edited by REDdemidry, 09 July 2013 - 11:33 AM.


Hummus #44 Posted 09 July 2013 - 11:32 AM

    Captain

  • Player
  • 19076 battles
  • 2,365
  • [DIIIK] DIIIK
  • Member since:
    04-17-2011

View PostPrivate_Bufu, on 09 July 2013 - 06:48 AM, said:

Reading all that makes me think what the world is slowly coming to though, more greed seems more common each year.

Hi, I'm from Holland. And I would like to inform you that this has been the case since the beginning of time.
Please don't be foolish enough that this is new. People have found ways to improve their fortunes at the costs of others for as long as there have been people.
Hell there is a guy somewhere on the internet selling bits of the moon ..... I'm not going as far as wall street and say "greed is good" but a little less stupidity would be a start I think :P

Nowadays we have google and wiki. The current youngsters are not the first generation gamers, so their parents at least have the possibility of learning how it all works (if the kids don't just read the wiki themselves).

On most of these free to play MMo's I spend about € 10-20, which is a hell of a lot less then the €10,- per month I used to spend on wow. And if you compare it to a night out on the town it is nothing.
On a side note : I think WoT has one of the best free to play models, which is one of the reasons they are this successful. It doesn't force you to spend money (oke maybe a few bucks on extra garage slots) but it just makes stuff so much easier if you have a few thousand gold standing there. Especially when you're getting higher skilled crews you want to do gold retrains etc.

sharpneli #45 Posted 09 July 2013 - 11:39 AM

    Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 19861 battles
  • 1,941
  • [NAKKI] NAKKI
  • Member since:
    05-15-2011

View PostAst3lan, on 09 July 2013 - 11:11 AM, said:

Strange, if you are so good why do you even need Gold in CW and Tournaments at all?  :glasses:

To farm less? What else? All the camos and whatnot can be bought via silver. 300k for full set of T10 camo for a month. That's like 15 games with T5 moneymaker. You cannot say that 15 games per _MONTH_ to support a single T10 tank camo is too hard to do until you earn enough gold to buy a permanent one. That's kinda what they mean by free2win. You have the same chances as paying players in tournaments and other competitive gameplay, you just need to farm a bit. After that use your winnings to get a prem account and prem tanks and whatnot and then you don't have to farm like a free player anymore.

On the other hand if you are not good enough there is a shortcut. Use your credit card.

I think serb said it the best:

Quote

- SerB explain the “free to win” Wargaming concept, compared to “free to farm”: “Free to win is a system, in which all the combat options (including gold ammo) are available to both paying and not paying players. Free to farm is a dream of noobs (SS: literally “freeloaders”), who don’t want to farm neither in the game, nor in real life. That won’t be implemented.”

And the best part is that if you're good you don't have to pay nor farm. Just earn gold from CW and tournies. There are even T3 tournaments from time to time. Grind Pz1C or T70, grind modules (few hundred games will get you fully pimped T3 tank with coated optics and all the other goodies and a good crew), get win, get prem account, grind T10 and other tournament tanks from that. Keep on getting gold and you're good to go.

Edited by sharpneli, 09 July 2013 - 11:44 AM.


MkH #46 Posted 09 July 2013 - 11:42 AM

    Major

  • Player
  • 39167 battles
  • 2,710
  • [BIGD] BIGD
  • Member since:
    04-30-2011

View PostIoituma, on 09 July 2013 - 11:21 AM, said:

Camo makes tanks look good.
Premium tanks can be fun to play and some have pretty unique gameplay.
If there was no way to get free gold then CW winners would do the same as everybody, either buy it or play for free.

I probably wouldn't use gold that I've bough with real money for buying permament camos though. The problem is, I can't differentiate between the gold I've got from CW and contests, and the gold that I've paid for with real money.

Edited by MkH, 09 July 2013 - 11:44 AM.


REDdemidry #47 Posted 09 July 2013 - 11:44 AM

    Warrant Officer

  • Player
  • 50 battles
  • 679
  • Member since:
    06-03-2013

View Postsharpneli, on 09 July 2013 - 11:39 AM, said:

To farm less? What else?

again, the obvious: "This additional stress is often in the form of what Roger Dickey from Zynga calls “fun pain”. I describe this in my Two Contrasting Views of Monetization paper from 2011. This involves putting the consumer in a very uncomfortable or undesirable position in the game and then offering to remove this “pain” in return for spending money."

Edited by REDdemidry, 09 July 2013 - 11:46 AM.


Adwaenyth #48 Posted 09 July 2013 - 11:46 AM

    Major

  • Player
  • 19570 battles
  • 2,778
  • [F_D] F_D
  • Member since:
    05-19-2011

View PostMkH, on 09 July 2013 - 11:42 AM, said:

I probably wouldn't use gold that I've bough with real money for buying permament camos though. The problem is, I can't differentiate between the gold I've got from CW and contests, and the gold that I've paid for with real money.

You want to know the difference once you have it? There is none.



If you can't control how much gold you spend in game, just control how much you spend on gold per month. Set yourself a fixed limit and if you run out of gold, you ran out of gold and that's it.  Then you can spend it on anything you like :blinky:

Dewirix #49 Posted 09 July 2013 - 11:48 AM

    Warrant Officer

  • Player
  • 13001 battles
  • 889
  • Member since:
    03-27-2011
The author directly mentions WoT in one of the comments below the main article, and it's in a positive context:

Quote

If we all go for the easy money and make money games, it will become the norm and our consumers will be forced to surrender to the model if there are no alternatives. If even just a few of us can make high quality skill games (like League of Legends and World of Tanks) but bring them to the social and mobile environments, the money games in those markets would quickly lose market share, ending their reign of..."fun pain". As far as I can see money games are 99% of the market right now for F2P in social and mobile, so it could stay like that for a while.

With F2P skill games like World of Tanks moving into the console space, I don't think that environment will be nearly as friendly to money games as social and mobile is now.


sharpneli #50 Posted 09 July 2013 - 11:48 AM

    Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 19861 battles
  • 1,941
  • [NAKKI] NAKKI
  • Member since:
    05-15-2011

View PostREDdemidry, on 09 July 2013 - 11:44 AM, said:

again, the obvious: "This additional stress is often in the form of what Roger Dickey from Zynga calls “fun pain”. I describe this in my Two Contrasting Views of Monetization paper from 2011. This involves putting the consumer in a very uncomfortable or undesirable position in the game and then offering to remove this “pain” in return for spending money."

Yup. That's how it works. Though I'd say that "very uncomfortable " is more than an overstatement. Do you consider 15 games with T5 moneymaker per MONTH to support T10 heavy camo to be "very uncomforable"? It hardly could be less. That's 1 game every other day. And it's that inconvenience that will drive people to pay.

Ofcourse one can overdo it. As an example War Thunder gives paying customers 6x experience compared to free customer (in WoT it's 1.5x).

REDdemidry #51 Posted 09 July 2013 - 11:50 AM

    Warrant Officer

  • Player
  • 50 battles
  • 679
  • Member since:
    06-03-2013

View PostAdwaenyth, on 09 July 2013 - 11:46 AM, said:

You want to know the difference once you have it? There is none.



If you can't control how much gold you spend in game, just control how much you spend on gold per month. Set yourself a fixed limit and if you run out of gold, you ran out of gold and that's it.  Then you can spend it on anything you like :blinky:
Yes there is, concrete and accountable difference.
For some you payed money, for the other you didn't. How is that not different ?  :smile:

Hummus #52 Posted 09 July 2013 - 11:52 AM

    Captain

  • Player
  • 19076 battles
  • 2,365
  • [DIIIK] DIIIK
  • Member since:
    04-17-2011

View Postsharpneli, on 09 July 2013 - 11:48 AM, said:

Yup. That's how it works. Though I'd say that "very uncomfortable " is more than an overstatement. Do you consider 15 games with T5 moneymaker per MONTH to support T10 heavy camo to be "very uncomforable"? It hardly could be less. That's 1 game every other day. And it's that inconvenience that will drive people to pay.

Why the *bleep* would you need camo on a tier 10 during times that you can't even be asked to play one game every two days !?
I mean you need to grind to even play the tier 10 tank .....

sharpneli #53 Posted 09 July 2013 - 11:54 AM

    Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 19861 battles
  • 1,941
  • [NAKKI] NAKKI
  • Member since:
    05-15-2011

View PostHummus, on 09 July 2013 - 11:52 AM, said:

Why the *bleep* would you need camo on a tier 10 during times that you can't even be asked to play one game every two days !?
I mean you need to grind to even play the tier 10 tank .....

That was just an example. And it referred to the time before this particular campaign.

Another example would be T8 ESL tank (T69 or AMX 50 100 etc). 240k per month. As there are ESL games every week and tournaments are going all the time it's useful to keep that kind of tank going.

E:

In anycase this has derailed a bit. I originally started to post as REDdemidry claimed that playing CW requires money instead of giving it to you. That's why I threw the 60k profits over last spring to his face.

Edited by sharpneli, 09 July 2013 - 11:57 AM.


Adwaenyth #54 Posted 09 July 2013 - 11:54 AM

    Major

  • Player
  • 19570 battles
  • 2,778
  • [F_D] F_D
  • Member since:
    05-19-2011

View PostREDdemidry, on 09 July 2013 - 11:50 AM, said:

Yes there is, concrete and accountable difference.
For some you payed money, for the other you didn't. How is that not different ?  :smile:

And once you have it on the account, it is not different in any kind. To be more precise, it usually is just an integer value on a harddrive on some server somewhere in the world. Since you can't revert it back into real money, it has no value at all.

What you actually did is pay WG for the service of increasing that number on that server of theirs... now think about it. How much is it worth to you, that some automated system adds a certain integer value to a specific database field.  :blinky:

Ast3lan #55 Posted 09 July 2013 - 12:06 PM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 10885 battles
  • 1,263
  • Member since:
    10-23-2011

View Postsharpneli, on 09 July 2013 - 11:39 AM, said:

To farm less? What else? All the camos and whatnot can be bought via silver. 300k for full set of T10 camo for a month. That's like 15 games with T5 moneymaker. You cannot say that 15 games per _MONTH_ to support a single T10 tank camo is too hard to do until you earn enough gold to buy a permanent one. That's kinda what they mean by free2win. You have the same chances as paying players in tournaments and other competitive gameplay, you just need to farm a bit. After that use your winnings to get a prem account and prem tanks and whatnot and then you don't have to farm like a free player anymore.

You just won the arguement for me without even realising it. Shortcuts, advantages, you need to farm if you want to stay free and thats the crucial point here.

View Postsharpneli, on 09 July 2013 - 11:39 AM, said:

On the other hand if you are not good enough there is a shortcut. Use your credit card.

So if i want to win i need to pay? Kinda defeats of a F2P model right?

View Postsharpneli, on 09 July 2013 - 11:39 AM, said:

I think serb said it the best:


And the best part is that if you're good you don't have to pay nor farm. Just earn gold from CW and tournies. There are even T3 tournaments from time to time. Grind Pz1C or T70, grind modules (few hundred games will get you fully pimped T3 tank with coated optics and all the other goodies and a good crew), get win, get prem account, grind T10 and other tournament tanks from that. Keep on getting gold and you're good to go.

But to win in tourneys and in CW you need to invest money in consumables, camos, the right tanks, 100% crews with perks and have gold.

There you have it, you have defeated the F2P arguement, so did SerB, the fact that you either grind to pay monthly, or weekly for some items, or you can have them permanently if you pull your credit card and pay for them in gold is a form of Paying to have something.

I'm not saying its wrong, do tournaments, play CW, win stuff thats all fine and fun, but don't call the game F2P because it isn't.

Ioituma #56 Posted 09 July 2013 - 12:10 PM

    Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 10041 battles
  • 1,962
  • Member since:
    05-20-2012

View PostAst3lan, on 09 July 2013 - 12:06 PM, said:

You just won the arguement for me without even realising it. Shortcuts, advantages, you need to farm if you want to stay free and thats the crucial point here.
And what's wrong with farming?

Also you misrepresented his post. He said "shortcut" as in "paying to cut the grind/farming", not "paying to win".

Edited by Ioituma, 09 July 2013 - 12:11 PM.


Ast3lan #57 Posted 09 July 2013 - 12:11 PM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 10885 battles
  • 1,263
  • Member since:
    10-23-2011

View PostIoituma, on 09 July 2013 - 12:10 PM, said:

And what's wrong with farming?

Its boring.

sharpneli #58 Posted 09 July 2013 - 12:15 PM

    Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 19861 battles
  • 1,941
  • [NAKKI] NAKKI
  • Member since:
    05-15-2011

View PostAst3lan, on 09 July 2013 - 12:06 PM, said:

So if i want to win i need to pay? Kinda defeats of a F2P model right?
YOU need to pay. I don't have to. I'm making more gold than I can spend. You however can compensate by farming.

View PostAst3lan, on 09 July 2013 - 12:06 PM, said:

But to win in tourneys and in CW you need to invest money in consumables, camos, the right tanks, 100% crews with perks and have gold.
You get all of this by credits, which are gained by farming.


View PostAst3lan, on 09 July 2013 - 12:06 PM, said:

There you have it, you have defeated the F2P arguement, so did SerB, the fact that you either grind to pay monthly, or weekly for some items, or you can have them permanently if you pull your credit card and pay for them in gold is a form of Paying to have something.

I'm not saying its wrong, do tournaments, play CW, win stuff thats all fine and fun, but don't call the game F2P because it isn't.

Now you understood it. You either pay via money, by being good or by playing the game (a.k.a farming).

You could say that it's farm2play if you're bad and free2play if you're a good player.

View PostAst3lan, on 09 July 2013 - 12:11 PM, said:

Its boring.

"who don’t want to farm neither in the game, nor in real life"

Edited by sharpneli, 09 July 2013 - 12:16 PM.


sharpneli #59 Posted 09 July 2013 - 12:16 PM

    Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 19861 battles
  • 1,941
  • [NAKKI] NAKKI
  • Member since:
    05-15-2011
--- DELETE THIS. STUPID DOUBLEPOST ----

Edited by sharpneli, 09 July 2013 - 12:16 PM.


REDdemidry #60 Posted 09 July 2013 - 12:16 PM

    Warrant Officer

  • Player
  • 50 battles
  • 679
  • Member since:
    06-03-2013

View PostAdwaenyth, on 09 July 2013 - 11:54 AM, said:

And once you have it on the account, it is not different in any kind. To be more precise, it usually is just an integer value on a harddrive on some server somewhere in the world. Since you can't revert it back into real money, it has no value at all.

What you actually did is pay WG for the service of increasing that number on that server of theirs... now think about it. How much is it worth to you, that some automated system adds a certain integer value to a specific database field.  :blinky:

Yes, the difference is blurred by that layer of intermediate and gratuitous premium currency.
It makes a disconnect from your actual real money spent.
What MkH points to is exactly this: He does not have control over his money once payed although, apart from the added noise, it matters a whole bunch more because it's been payed for.

There is a difference between two quantityes summed by one integer, as you put it, and he has no control over those two very different quantityes.
That's his point.

I rely more on the mother of all accountability: how much, in total, in a blunt number, has been spent because of that x game. It's much clearer. What happened to this sum of cash after payment doesn't even matter with those artists at smoke and mirrors.

Edited by REDdemidry, 09 July 2013 - 12:18 PM.






Also tagged with F2P

1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users