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Solution to the T-54 problem


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MARMIST #41 Posted 30 January 2011 - 08:59 PM

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View PostRumshot, on 29 January 2011 - 08:24 PM, said:

ooh yes?

         Battles Wins
T-54 306 190

i can se ur enjoying ur t54

pffffffff russian drivers only. not even caring.


View Postikiralight, on 29 January 2011 - 11:42 PM, said:

The T54 isn't as hard to kill as everyone makes it out to be, lol. I don't fear is that much in my King Tiger. T-54s usually win, but as far as I'm concerned they should, as they're the last medium tanks down the line and they often get put with tier 10s.


I'll give a hint; there's one weak spot on the front of T54s. Back is obviously an easy target, certain parts on the sides though hard to hit if not stationary, and the side/back of the turret are horrid.


and you have 60% winning ratio. YEs nice. Must be a hell of a weakspot

Ogroid #42 Posted 31 January 2011 - 12:13 AM

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T54 stays in game as it is and I will probably never pay. Why bother with any other tier 9 when 3 or 4 of them on a team can dominate with ease.

'World of T54's' anyone? No thanks.

FistofFury #43 Posted 31 January 2011 - 09:35 AM

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since i had some Games against T54 finally with my TigerII and TD, i have to say, i dont understand the whine Posts all over the forum. Can it be that some People just cant stand it to get raped by some meds? So far i had bouncers with my Tiger on the T54 but mostly on the front, a hit from the side does plenty amount of damage, even with the tigerII lowertier. Sometimes i do aswell damage through the front.
With the Jagdtiger, aswell with the Ferdi its not a Problem to hit him at all. Well there are bouncers sometimes but why not, its a T9 tank im facing ....

The Problem i see is not the T54 alone its a wolfpack and then its not just the T54... aswell his brothers from the german and us tank tree are killing machines if they come in packs. Easiest way to counter them is to stay together, which mostly doesnt work cause of the random group. And then its much easier to win with alot of meds.

But do you really want to play without meds? Sometimes i have the feeling the heavy tank driver just want to have heavy tanks as enemies, even if not a t54 is in the game, the heavies start to cry about the overpowered arties. Now i probably get an answer like " well we dont want to play without meds, the T8 meds can stay that s not a problem"....
Yeah and why can they stay? Cause they are peanuts for every T8-T10 heavy tank...

I say, let the T54 as it is, or nerf it slightly as it will with next patch and buff the other T9 meds, to finally have some challenge for the heavy tanks.

But there is no way that this tank is overpowered.


P.S. did i mention allready that i one shotted at least 5 T54? Ammohit ftw. The T44 i stopped counting ...

Hornet331 #44 Posted 31 January 2011 - 10:16 AM

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Sry but the tank is OP, or at least better then any other nation tank in the same class. Its confirmed by the Devs themself... T54 is the casual tank where even low skilled players can do good.

All that stupid arguing is pretty much over with this statement.

Legault #45 Posted 31 January 2011 - 10:52 AM

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View PostStavinsky, on 30 January 2011 - 11:21 AM, said:

I guess you are also fully "neutral" in your declaration about T-54 ? Mmmh let see,

ikiralight stats :
Tanks Battle Victory
T-54 116 71

61% ratio wining. I guess i don't have to point further away... Nothing personal, just
another fact pointed out.


What your very own situation show is that a good driver using a T-54
will achieve very high win ratio because HE/SHE will be a decisive factor
in the winning. And when you come to the play, 1 or 2 tanks should not be WHAT
make a team win. It should be the action of the WHOLE team.

And that's where the T-54 "well doing everywhere" with no real
weakness in matter of fighting is unbalanced compared to every other
tank of the game, whatever it's tier.
But even more when compared to the other Tiers 9 Medium.

And as we are in BETA test, we are not here to "destroy and enjoy being the most powerful players in game"
we are here supposedly to point out what's wrong in the balance, in the game mechanics,
or other bugs, so the dev team can correct those and when the game is released
it's a succes, and not a catastrophe.

If you want to take a look to a very recent "catastrophic" release, you should take
a look at the last Final Fantasy, and see how in huge troubles they are from
a lack of good beta testing and not realy taking their beta testers
informations into account.

As a player who waited very long for a good game of tank, i just really hope
to help as much as i can to have a nicely balanced game that is very enjoyable
and profitable to the dev making it, so they could have it running for as
long as possible.
With your logic even the T-44 is OP. T-34-85 is OP too. All capable of contributing greatly to a fight if your team isn't horrid.


And yes, I have a T-54. But I also have a Tiger II. I've shot plenty of T-54s with it because I know where to aim. It's hardly that bad. A T-54 does not make a team win on it's own either. Of course there's some cases where I almost singlehandedly won my team a match because they left a flank completely open and spotted/destroyed 4 artillery and then proceeded to shoot people in the back, but that's a mistake the enemy team made. I've done the same in other medium tanks. And yes, it almost always wins in a 1v1 with a tier 8 heavy but not without losing half of your health if the heavy driver has any clue what he's doing.


And it needs that much power, because it's the final medium and tier 10 heavies still sh*t all over it. Tier 9 heavies can be fought but they penetrate you on most hits so you lose if you're not in a better position than they are. Especially versus IS4s, which have the stats of tier 10 tanks... which does well everywhere. The IS4 can absorb a sick amount of damage (Ever seen 3 T-54s and a Panther II killing an IS4? It takes over half a minute with constant volleys and it still destroys something in the process, and that's at VERY close range), does a lot of damage itself, is fairly accurate, quite mobile compared to a lot of other heavy tanks and it feels like they devs gave it a flat 33% chance to bounce shots.


And don't forget matchmaking almost considers you equal to a ****ing jagdtiger or 704. The amount of tier 9/10 vehicles you have to deal with would really leave it useless if it got nerfed much. It's only OP versus lower tiers, which will be fixed if they lower the frontal armor a bit. Most tier 9-10 vehicles penetrate the T-54 like it's nothing, so it won't make much of a difference there.


And don't bother using the stacked T-54s argument. That just happens because it's a popular tank. I've been in matches where I was the only T-54 on my team, but with 1-3 Pershings and 3-4 Panther IIs. Know what happens if they stick together and rush? It's the same kind of rape. But the Pershing and Panther II should still be buffed until they're equal to the T-54 after they nerf it's frontal armor. They ARE the final mediums in the game.

Stavinsky #46 Posted 01 February 2011 - 05:41 PM

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View PostFistofFury, on 31 January 2011 - 09:35 AM, said:

since i had some Games against T54 finally with my TigerII and TD, i have to say, i dont understand the whine Posts all over the forum. Can it be that some People just cant stand it to get raped by some meds? So far i had bouncers with my Tiger on the T54 but mostly on the front, a hit from the side does plenty amount of damage, even with the tigerII lowertier. Sometimes i do aswell damage through the front.
With the Jagdtiger, aswell with the Ferdi its not a Problem to hit him at all. Well there are bouncers sometimes but why not, its a T9 tank im facing ....

The Problem i see is not the T54 alone its a wolfpack and then its not just the T54... aswell his brothers from the german and us tank tree are killing machines if they come in packs. Easiest way to counter them is to stay together, which mostly doesnt work cause of the random group. And then its much easier to win with alot of meds.

But do you really want to play without meds? Sometimes i have the feeling the heavy tank driver just want to have heavy tanks as enemies, even if not a t54 is in the game, the heavies start to cry about the overpowered arties. Now i probably get an answer like " well we dont want to play without meds, the T8 meds can stay that s not a problem"....
Yeah and why can they stay? Cause they are peanuts for every T8-T10 heavy tank...

I say, let the T54 as it is, or nerf it slightly as it will with next patch and buff the other T9 meds, to finally have some challenge for the heavy tanks.

But there is no way that this tank is overpowered.


P.S. did i mention allready that i one shotted at least 5 T54? Ammohit ftw. The T44 i stopped counting ...



Actualy i also did shoot my share number of T-54, what is the problem is when you take it 1 vs 1 it can manage itself almost against
everything in game. And in the actual situation a Medium tiers 9 should not be able to rape everything. That's what the t-44
was doing a long way ago and it got nerfed because the Dev said it was doing too well.

What we have actualy is a tank that has much higher stats that it has in real speaking about it's speed that a nothing to do
with a T-54 of 1950, or it's 120mm armor that was only tried on a lone prototype only to discover it was breaking
the tank suspension and other parts and they choosed to have it down to 99mm (hence the 100mm nerf).

What is also completly out of hand is the insane traverse amount that i don't guess was anything near the real
value of the time (i did not find any info on that but the way they have overdone all the other things....).

The real value for the speed for exemple are
48 km/h (30 mph) on road for T-54
55 km/h (34 mph) in 5th gear on road for T-55
50 km/h (31 mph) on road and 26 km/h (16 mph) cross country for T-55AMV


The front armor was
97 mm upper front of the hull
99 mm lower front of the hull

So i would easily bet the supposed 48 degree/second traverse speed
of the tracks are more than 'overdone', especialy compared to the 40 degree/second
of the Pershing.



Now to answer you Ikari, yes i have seen how fast it is for 3 T-54 to kill an is-4, as
i died a good number of time in my own IS-4 when faced to T-54, but strangely enough
those T-54 drivers where penetrating a lot from any angle, even frontaly where i could
barely do anything except "track them for 2 seconds", or bounce on their hull / turret
because they could turn them all the time i had an opportunity to fire. And that on most of the map.

But I don't mind bouncing some from normal situation, what i and most of the players don't accept is
how a T-54 can keep bouncing, and turn itself faster than an hummel, and do well in EVERY aspect
when all the other tanks have their weakness, yes the IS-4 has it's weakness with it's speed and
acceleration, even if it is better than some VK4502, and recently i bounce much more shoot
from front in my VK4502 than my is-4 but i don't mind, as i consider i should be damaged
when keeping hit, and it's something T-54 drivers don't seems to think normal that they could be
damaged in some ways.

But the huge difference is that if they choosed to balance the is-4 some i would not jump high
to defend it. I tried to defend the US heavies when they considered changing things,
and now we see the result they are going to rework the US tech trees and especialy
the Heavy line as it don't perform like they want. So i guess i was not 'wrong' with
the defense of those tanks.


Now to come back to another of your arguments Ikari, you say you see 2-3 Pershing or Panther 2.

Yes so do i have seen some wolfpack like those, strangely enough nobody are screaming about those
wolfpack as most of the time you can damage them and they don't just "roll over flanks" like the
mighty hand of god landing on Earth.

But to get your argument further, have you ever seen up to 11 Pershing or 11 Panther 2 in the same
game ? i guess you surely never have. Compared to the fact it's easily happening to see
up to 5-10+ T-54 in one game.

And to finish with your comparaison of a T-44 and T-34-85, they are not op, as they get damaged
when they fight against tank of their tiers or close. And they are not capable of 'insta turn'.
They do perform well in their job, but they don't outperform other tanks in jobs they are NOT supposed
to do, or simply not supposed to do so good.

As it is actualy, the dev inserted one of the first MBT in the world in a game where Main Battle Tanks
where not even a concept at the time.

So your comparaison don't stand against some reasonable analyse of the situations.
Especialy when you know the dev balance the tanks to reach some 50% stats.
And with so many 'casual' players using the T-54, and performing bad
there are a huge number of players who perform in ways that are definitively not
balanced just because they use the 'overdone stats' of a tank.


Actualy the dev are saying the T-44 and T-54 are supposed to be tanks for casual gamers.
Just that is a clear message of them saying loud -> YES WE KNOW a good player with that tank
outperform others.

So if they want to make a tank for casual gamers they are doing it the wrong way, as they
should make it so that a 'non-casual' gamer should not be able to have it
or that it should not be able to be such a decisive weapon in a game and the last
tanks of a tech tree line.

As we all know how players are, when you give them overpowered equipement. They tend to
all get for it. And i'm not the only player who do not want to see the game turning from
a "World of war 2 oriented tank with huge mix of tanks" to a "World of T-54 tanks with 20+
T-54 in each random battle".

But again, i must be a stupid guy to hope to see a balanced game that everyone could enjoy
and not only "hardcore gamers using OP tanks all the time".


My 2 cents.

Frankyy #47 Posted 02 February 2011 - 11:21 AM

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Hello guys!
I think T-54 MUST be nerfed.....it makes the game unplayable!!!
In RL this med tank was a main-medium-tank....soo CMON!!! DONT make it as fire of hell, with an armor what get about 20% damage from a tier max SPGs shot(if u hit directly), as long its one of the quickest in the game(wich acceptable from a medium tank)....
So PLEASE make it correct.... I think devs are patriots, but this is a game.....make it playable with every kind of tanks....
To developers: At the moment T-54 is not comparable with the other tier9 tanks....it much stronger!
FIX IT ASAP!!!.....or I guess you guys will lose a lot of partiot players.....(as I am sure you can imagine that there are some of this kind of people...can you?)
Simply think whats gonna happen if a JT hit a T-54 in RL......the crew goes to God, the tank with fall to pieces...it doesnt need to fire another...Am I correct?
...sorry for shit english...:)

Rhovan #48 Posted 02 February 2011 - 12:17 PM

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View PostFistofFury, on 31 January 2011 - 09:35 AM, said:

I say, let the T54 as it is, or nerf it slightly as it will with next patch and buff the other T9 meds, to finally have some challenge for the heavy tanks.

But there is no way that this tank is overpowered.

- Engine too powerful. although traverse speed
- tank too small campare too the other T9
- Armor too thick (thicker than in real)
- Get updates of 1960er years (after korea war)
- Things like engine fire rate of 10% (other T9 medium have 20%)

a tier 9 medium should be a good challenge for a heavy tank of Tier 9-10 because of better mobility. But with this stats the T-54 is far too overpowered or the rest of the tanks is crap.

Slightly changes?

They want to change the fire rate of engines for T-54 from 10 to 12%
The fire rate of Panther II and Pershing is 20%

YOu thinks that equal and not overpowered?

There are although much stats we didnt see in the overview and i thnik the T-54 will dominate there too.

Hornet331 #49 Posted 02 February 2011 - 03:44 PM

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no they use RL stats, but the cherry pick them.

Amor e.g. only the first 1000 tanks of so got the 120mm, but then got refit to 100mm due to weight imbalance.

In WoT you get the armor from the first modells with stuff from later 100mm models.

Paavopesusieni #50 Posted 02 February 2011 - 07:53 PM

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IMO this tank only need armor nerf to 100 mm nothing else. It should be fast and nimble that's why I chose Russian medium tree but Tiger II class front armor is bit too much for so fast tank.

Legault #51 Posted 02 February 2011 - 07:56 PM

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View PostMARMIST, on 30 January 2011 - 08:59 PM, said:

pffffffff russian drivers only. not even caring.





and you have 60% winning ratio. YEs nice. Must be a hell of a weakspot
Just noticed this btw lol.


63% win ratio now. Even in matches where I'm the only T-54 on my team and the enemy team has 4-5, I win. Yes, there's a weak spot, too bad you'd rather cry than try and find it. :')

Frankyy #52 Posted 02 February 2011 - 10:36 PM

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LOL.......some guys says we needda find the "week point".....well
Dont you think its far unbalanced if you only can destroy a tank "if u find" that?..... Beside its too fast to shoot on an exact point......even a tier 9-10 hvy has a lot of problem with t-54.....actually they are too slow to hit this f..en tank.....what are we talking about?!?!.....so...CMON T-54 FANs .......U GOTTA BE NERFED!!!!! ASAP!!! IT IS A MUST!!!
:angry::angry::angry::angry:

scartstorm #53 Posted 02 February 2011 - 11:59 PM

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Remove this tank from the game or nerf it into bloody pulp. Having 5 of these simply come over the field in Campinovka and destroying everything in sight in less than a  minute without taking any losses themselves... yeah, balanced indeed. Whoever claims that this tank is not OP, is worthy of a few words that the curse filter will not allow on these boards.

gegnar #54 Posted 03 February 2011 - 01:45 AM

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please patch this tank out of the game.. he is to fast, reloadtime is to short and bouncing is his secound name... sorry but this is no fun at all...

TOP_GUN_MAV #55 Posted 03 February 2011 - 12:50 PM

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The T-54 having a couple of weak spots does not balance it in the slightest. I have a T-54 and have fought against them enough to know just how difficult it can be to hit under practical battlefield conditions. Sure, you can destroy a T-54 easily enough if it's sitting still at point blank range in a training battle, but that has little reflection on reality.

Take a look at the Pershing and Panther 2, see the tank? There's its weak spot. The whole thing is one big weak spot.

Legault #56 Posted 04 February 2011 - 09:54 AM

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View PostDarkFenix2k5, on 03 February 2011 - 12:50 PM, said:

The T-54 having a couple of weak spots does not balance it in the slightest. I have a T-54 and have fought against them enough to know just how difficult it can be to hit under practical battlefield conditions. Sure, you can destroy a T-54 easily enough if it's sitting still at point blank range in a training battle, but that has little reflection on reality.

Take a look at the Pershing and Panther 2, see the tank? There's its weak spot. The whole thing is one big weak spot.
The pershing and the panther II are a joke when it comes to performing in tier 9-10 battles. They're pretty damn useless. When the front armor of the T54 gets nerfed it'll be easier to penetrate the front, but it's still not going to have a neon sign that says "fire a shell my way for free xp".


And honestly, as with all tanks, if a T-54 shows it's side or back it's an easy target. I have no problems shooting a T-54 on the other side of the map if it's moving sideways, it WILL lose 15-20% HP for showing itself. It so hard to NOT penetrate if your gun has over 200 armor penetration...

Snoken #57 Posted 04 February 2011 - 05:16 PM

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View Postikiralight, on 04 February 2011 - 09:54 AM, said:

The pershing and the panther II are a joke when it comes to performing in tier 9-10 battles. They're pretty damn useless. When the front armor of the T54 gets nerfed it'll be easier to penetrate the front, but it's still not going to have a neon sign that says "fire a shell my way for free xp".


And honestly, as with all tanks, if a T-54 shows it's side or back it's an easy target. I have no problems shooting a T-54 on the other side of the map if it's moving sideways, it WILL lose 15-20% HP for showing itself. It so hard to NOT penetrate if your gun has over 200 armor penetration...
Never been useless in my Pershing.

grdja #58 Posted 04 February 2011 - 06:33 PM

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Here's a ton of numbers.

Table on various T-54 models

Taurox #59 Posted 04 February 2011 - 10:26 PM

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The T-54 is heavily armored butt still as fast as light and has a hard hitting gun.
But yeah, lets look for its weaks... its small... oh no, another advantage...

Buff it or there will be T-54 drivers only after the people get how OP it is.

Peter_Waffen #60 Posted 05 February 2011 - 12:21 AM

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I am a top 1000 player, i play a lot, but this tank, (UFO) is a f***** joke. This and the obj704 kill this game. :-(




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