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Luchs, the tier 4 powerhouse


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maroar #1 Posted 03 August 2013 - 11:54 AM

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As of late I'm seeing allot of topics about the luchs being bad and being in a need of a buff.
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I think it is fine as it is, why?
Well it gets MM from tier 4-8
On tier 4 its a beast that can easily kill tier 3 tanks and tier 4 TDs (as they have a low HP pool).
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Even the tier 4 matilda can be killed with quitte some ease thanks to the great speed and great gun(s)
In my oppinion it is one of the best tier 4 tanks in the game, the only "problem" it might have is that people want to play it like a "regular" tank.
And just like the ELC and, when you use the 3cm, maybe more like the AMX light tanks, this is not a "regular" tank.
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I have some replays to show its effectiveness:
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tier 4; you dont get them that often, but when you do this sort of result is easy to get
http://wotreplays.co...pzkpfw_ii_luchs
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tier 6; you need to be carefull on which targets you pick but most tanks can still be damaged frontally when you know where to shoot
http://wotreplays.co...pzkpfw_ii_luchs
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tier 8; this is where it will become more difficult, you are mainly a spotter, but with the 3cm (as it has 95mm of penetration) and finding the right targets you can do some good damage as well and be important for your team
http://wotreplays.co...pzkpfw_ii_luchs
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tier 8; in this 2nd one I have more luck but I am picking the targets that are alone and I can penetrate (this one also shows that with the autocannon you can get allot more modules damaged, and thanks to knowing where enemy modules are located in the first place I can get the ammorack)
http://wotreplays.co...pzkpfw_ii_luchs
http://www.youtube.c...h?v=Cgs6OHd7M-Y
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So what is important in all light tanks:
1. Look at the Battle tier of the match
-Is this a regular match, tier 4-5 (maybe 6)
-Is this a scouting match, tier 6/7-8
2. Look at the tanks which are in your team and in the enemy team
-If tier 6 can you damage all the enemies, if yes, you can play as if it was normal MM, is it hard, you will be more of a scout
When you see it is a scouting match:
-If you have fast enough tanks to support you, you can go in an advanced position, if you have not, or they are not following you taking the advanced position will be a greater risk
-If the enemy has faster tanks you might want to pick a not so advanced position as this will increase the risk of you being spotted, killed and not being usefull to your team anymore
3. Dont be ashamed of running, when you are outgunned (mainly in scout MM) run, you being dead and maybe doing 100 damage to an enemy is allot less usefull then being alive and spotting the enemy so your team can do (for example) 600 damage to them.
4. Look at your minimap, its your best friend, this is true in every tank but knowing the enemy tank is by itself and given its the right tank you can kill him (by circling and shooting it in its weak sides and rear)
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People are really happy with having a good scout in their team, as allot of people uselessly suicide in the first minute.
__________________
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MY  SETUP
3 cm M.K. 103
I am mostly a scout tank so when I do come out to do damage I want to be out for the shortest ammount of time and do the most damage in this time, afterwards I will want to cover or run, as I cant take a hit from the big guns most of the enemy will have. In that time my clip will reload, my camo will be back up and I can spot for my team, when fully reloaded I can repeat again.
"Luchs 5 cm" turret
Some people use the stock turret ("Luchs 2 cm") as it weighs less and this will give you better manoeuvrability, I think this is not the way to go,
I use the "Luchs 5 cm" turret for the extra viewrange and extra rounds in the clip.
Why "Luchs 5 cm" turret instead of the "Luchs 2 cm" turret
-With the "Luchs 5 cm" turret you will still have great manoeuvrability.
-Because of the greater viewrange you can see an enemy from greater distance (especially with the equipment which will be discussed later) this will mean you will see him allot sooner then he can see you this means you have more time to reposition if needed and that your teammates can take him down allot sooner then he will spot you (as they will have more time before he will get close enough to you)
-Also the extra damage, you get 1 round more which fires 2 shots, this will increase your damage from 240 to 300 average per clip
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-EQUIPMENT:
vents;
to boost all the things in this tank, most important it boosts camo and viewrange (also clip reload time)
coated  optics;
your  viewrange will be boosted (together with vents and 100% crew) to 400m+
binocs;
the luchs is a great passive scout as well, with this you will spot the enemy sooner from your favourite bushes, (also with vents and 100% crew) boosted to over 450m (awesome because this will negate some camofactor on enemy tanks that have good camo)
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-CREW SKILLS:
commander:
-6th  sense; kn ow when you're spotted
-camouflage; The distance in which the enemy will spot you is allot shorter, so you wont be spotted as easily
driver:
-camouflage; see commander
-smooth  ride; to re duce the time I have to expose when I shoot as I wont have to aim for as long, this increases your survivability as you will be able to unload sooner and you can go back into cover sooner
radio  operator:
-camouflage; see commander
-situational  awereness; to boost y our viewrange even further spotting the enemy sooner and from a greater distance
loader:
-camouflage; see commander
-repairs; anything goes here really, I just picked this for the times I derp out in some matches and get myself tracked while im not in any danger and can let the tracks be repaired by itself
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in the first tier 8 battle it was a inexperienced crew that did not have a 100% first skill so the setup was:
C: camouflage
D: smooth ride
R: camouflage
L: repairs
the equipment at that time was:
optics, toolbox, binocs
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Looking at this repairs is quitte pointless here so I would now go for
C: camouflage
D: smooth ride/camouflage
R: camouflage
L: camouflage
__________________
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5 more replays
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1. Live Oaks, A loss with a good lesson;
In the end I move out to soon against the AT-8, I underestimated his traverse speed and could have easily waited for him to get much closer thanks to my excelent camouflage
http://wotreplays.co...pzkpfw_ii_luchs
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2. Himmelsdorf, assassin;
If I the enemy turns towards me like they do it is usefull as well, this will releave my allies of the fire of one cannon and will increase their chance of succes
http://wotreplays.co...pzkpfw_ii_luchs
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3. Westfield, getting disturbed;
In my plan to scout and spot the enemy to death on the east flank I get disturbed by a suicide rushing enemy scout and a KV-1.
In the hill seems lost and I spot and kill the remaining enemy heavies there.
http://wotreplays.co...pzkpfw_ii_luchs
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4. El Halluf, a map that is heavily favored to the side with the good scout
I play cautious in the beginning and this pays of as the cromwell rushes down and if he spotted me, he could have easily killed me.
Knowing where the enemy scout is (as I spotted the M5A1 myself) I plot my route to close the distance and get some more spots for my team.
I descide to take out the AMX myself as my team cannot snipe it's weakspot from that distance, 1 out of my 10 shots should hit his weakspot and I can retreat into cover as my own team has pushed the north west side to a point that there can be no enemy in my back. I go hunting for arty and the game is won.
http://wotreplays.co...pzkpfw_ii_luchs
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5. Live Oaks, tier 4 kolobanov ;D
highest damage so far (kolobanov, top gun, defender).
-I sit on top of the little hill, looking if I can spot anything and looking if my team is going into the town, if a sustainable force goes there I will follow, if not then I cannot go there.
-I do not go into the town, as without enough of my team there I would be a sitting duck during my reload and overrun.
-I take some bad shots from over 400m (the small calliber of the gun means that on this distance and greater it will not penetrate anything)
-I see on my minimap that the other flank is falling and that the B1 is in the open, I decide to attack him (from a safe distance) to try and safe the M3lee and the flank.
-I do not commit to the flank as the M3lee is being shot at and I previously spotted 2 other enemy tanks on that flank, without any support there it would not be safe for me to go there with my long reload in between clips
-I go back to focus on the town and decide I will have to deal with the other flank later on.
-My team is falling and we could not clear one flank before being surroinded, I have to retreat to the only (moderatly safe place there is for me hoping I can poke out to pick of some opponents
-The enemy gets overconfident and come at me one by one seing as they are all damaged I can one-clip each of them.
-after I got through the hetzer and LTP dual attack I knew I could easily win.
-I took a shot from the M3Lee which was bad play by me as I could have gotten into a position (in this ditch) where  I would have been reloaded before he could have gotten his gun on me.
-I spam my gun at the SAu without aiming as I see he is on very low HP and and I think from that distance enough shots will go in.
-The enemy LTP doesnt spot me comming from behind the bushes untill I fire.
http://wotreplays.co...pzkpfw_ii_luchs
https://www.youtube....h?v=n4KUYKNz2hk
__________________
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The "Proscout" website is great for more information on your scout tanks, maps, tactics, etc.
Here si the link to that site:
http://www.tazilon.net/

Edited by maroar, 21 August 2013 - 04:39 PM.


yaourti #2 Posted 03 August 2013 - 03:14 PM

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I agree, it's a nice tank, I was scared to buy it for a while because of the bad rep it received but so long as you are prepared for scout matchmaking then there's nothing to worry about and the gun is 'special' (I use the big turret for bigger magazine and view range).

Equipment: vents, optics and binocs

I'd love to watch your replays and learn to play it better but embarrassingly, I don't know what to do with those replay links- can someone very kind please explain it in this quiet corner of the forum?

Fizzinger #3 Posted 03 August 2013 - 03:17 PM

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Download them and open them with the WOT.exe, not with the launcher, then you can watch them.

yaourti #4 Posted 03 August 2013 - 03:26 PM

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Thanks, Fizzinger- out of +1's unfortunately.
Sorry I'm a bit of a retard but how do I open an internet link with WoT.exe?
When I click on the link in the OP it takes me to WoT replays screen and I click on 'download replay'.
This then opens up a page of text and I just don't know what to do next, there is no file in my downloads folder to open with anything.
I tried sending it to my desktop, then dropping it into my own replays folder but it won't open there it seems to be just a link to that page of text.

Edited by yaourti, 03 August 2013 - 04:00 PM.


maroar #5 Posted 03 August 2013 - 04:30 PM

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You download it to your desktop and then just double-click it, if its an 8.6 replay just click yes when asked if you still want to check it.
If it's and 8.7 replay only thing you need to do is double-click it.
The replay will start
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Hmm, dont know about that wall of text you are talking about, I signed out and I could still download the file.

Edited by maroar, 03 August 2013 - 05:11 PM.


Tomatosauce #6 Posted 03 August 2013 - 06:20 PM

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I've got the exact same problem, ahem,

I go to the download link and click download replay (There is no option where to download it to)

This opens up a web page of code, which looks game related with various text like moves, spotted and suchlike- it looks like it should be a replay file- if I close the page I find I haven't downloaded anything- I can send to desktop, but what it sends is a link to this page of replay code- if I double click it just opens this page again, no replay.?????

maroar #7 Posted 03 August 2013 - 07:15 PM

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Are you out of the game?
So is WoT completely closed?
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It needs to be completely closed for you to be able to watch replays
also, have you updated all of your browsers Add-ons?
might have something to do with it as when I have the game running I can still download normally, just not watch them

Edited by maroar, 03 August 2013 - 07:18 PM.


Tomatosauce #8 Posted 03 August 2013 - 07:30 PM

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Thanks for trying to help- I always have WoT closed when I'm browsing the forum so that shouldn't be a problem.
When I click 'download replay' it doesn't seem to download- it opens up that text and code location (webpage) if I close the page, nothing has downloaded at all.
I tried 'save target as' by rightclicking on 'download replay' and saved as the default, filename WoT replay.
I then had a WoT replay file of 788Kb or so in my download folder- I dragged it onto my desktop and double clicked- it opened up Wot to the login screen- if I do nothing, nothing happens, if I hit return it just loads and loads and nothing happens.
Windows 7 64bit- I have no problem watching my own replays if I want to see 'how not to play' lol.
Edit- by using Chrome, (instead of IE) I can download it by clicking the button- but then if I try to open it, it launches WoT client and no option to 'open with' on right click.

Edited by Tomatosauce, 03 August 2013 - 08:49 PM.


maroar #9 Posted 04 August 2013 - 10:37 AM

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Can you post some screenshots, so we/I can see what the problem is (as I dont get any of these problems myself)

Tomatosauce #10 Posted 04 August 2013 - 12:05 PM

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I have no idea how to post screenshots, total retard :hiding: .

It's really good of you to be so helpful and I fear that I am becoming exceptionally irritating and derailing the 'Luchs' thread, I started a separate topic in the newcomer's forum but it has only helped to a certain extent.

Now I have the replay file and want to play it.

Using Google Chrome instead of IE 10 means that I can download the replay normally (Why won't IE 10 do it?!!?).

When I double click or open with rmb menu it opens the WoT client to my login details- I click continue and it just permaloads requiring me to end task with task manager.

I'm sure someone said that it needs to be opened with WoT.exe not client (not quite sure what that means or if it's correct)

I feel that I should stop spamming your thread now maroar, you've really tried to help me and I appreciate your time.

yaourti #11 Posted 05 August 2013 - 04:15 AM

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Just to say, I just worked it out- I'm going to enjoy watching your replays tomorrow.

BoletusLuridus #12 Posted 05 August 2013 - 11:57 AM

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Scouting in tier VIII battles? Nooope. 5 cm KwK loaded with gold is a really destructive force.

The only sad thing is that Hellcats don't want to scout for me...  :glasses:

maroar #13 Posted 05 August 2013 - 06:37 PM

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View PostBoletusLuridus, on 05 August 2013 - 11:57 AM, said:

Scouting in tier VIII battles? Nooope. 5 cm KwK loaded with gold is a really destructive force.

The only sad thing is that Hellcats don't want to scout for me...  :glasses:

The 5cm is an option, and since you bring the topic up on the guns let me explain why I chose the 3cm.
1. As you can see in the replays: I expose myself when shooting, I dont re-aim for every clip, I pull back.
When exposing myself I am not yet spotted
When I fire I will be spotted, so I want to minimize my time being exposed in these scout MM battles as most tanks can 1-shot me
The 3cm will give me a max burst damage of 300hp (when having to shoot weakspots expect 120 damage)
During the reload I pull back and my camo wil be back up again

With the 5cm you will get of 1 shot, maybe 2 before the enemy will return fire and kill you with that 1 shot (or seriously cripple you)
so expect 70 or 140 damage so average 105 damage(if they all penetrate and even with the 130 penetration I doubt all will penetrate the tier 8 more often then the 3cm)
When you are trying to use the higher DPM of the 5cm you will be exposed the whole time as you will shoot every 2 seconds and the camoflauge wont start working again.

2. Best penetration without premium ammo (with premium shells 15 more penetration is not enough for me to use them, as the weakspots I hit will be penetrated with 95 pen as well, I do think they might be an option for the Leopard, which im currently trying to master)

3. in the non scout MM battles you will easily be able cripple an enemy tank with the burst damage of the 3cm
whereas the 5cm is just a regular gun in these matches
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Your remark of not scouting in tier 8 matches worries me.
You are not a regular tank here, why?

1. The enemy will likely also have a scout tank
If he is any good he will be able to spot your tanks and get them shot up without the enemy tanks ever being spotted (this ofcourse is not true so much in city battles)
(As seen in my tier 8 battle replay on murovanka, I spot the enemies and they get shot up without my teammates being shot back at)
By spotting even 1 enemy tanks to death you have been more usefull, then by doing half an enemies HP by yourself and letting your "top tier tanks" get shot up.

2. You do not have the damage output that the other tanks have, but you do have the advantage of the camouflage so use it.

By spotting you keep your team alive and killing the other team.

3. If your team would be bad, when do you think they will be able to do more damage?
-When they are totally safe from enemy fire and can take their time to take a shot (when you are spotting)
or
-When you do not spot the enemy tanks, your teammates spot the enemy and so get spotted themselfs and get shot at.
They will have to drive, aim and shoot the enemy (with the minusses their aimtime gets from this movement)

In situation one: you take out 1 enemy gun for none of your own (or crippling one of your own by it being shot at)
In situation two: (as I said your team is bad) your teammate starts to trade with the enemy and fails to kill the enemy and gets killed himself
or if hes a better player he loses HP which he might need later on in the game

maroar #14 Posted 05 August 2013 - 07:12 PM

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3 replays added in the OP
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BoletusLuridus
If you have some replays of how you play the luchs with great result please post em here yourself and I can add them in the OP, to make 2 different sections a 5cm section and a 3cm section (I hope you also have a 5cm replay without premium shell use on the higher tiers as I intended to show how the luchs is great as it is ATM)
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If I can have great fun with the same vehicle in a different way that would be great for me as well, as I dont have to get a new crew or buy a new vehicle ;)
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Also add why you chose the 5cm please so people can see which playstyle would fit them best

Edited by maroar, 05 August 2013 - 07:19 PM.


maroar #15 Posted 20 August 2013 - 02:09 PM

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Updated;
Got my setup in there and why I chose this setup

El halluf replay added (which is a great map for scouts)

If anyone does things differently please add this as I am sure there are more ways to play this tank effectively

yaourti #16 Posted 20 August 2013 - 05:03 PM

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Great stuff, loving your replays!  :smile:

Rajahz #17 Posted 21 August 2013 - 11:46 AM

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Hello guys, I'm a newbie and I play Luchs (learning obv) and I wonder what about teaching the driver the Off-road driving ? Is this wrong because many people advice it.
EDIT; Already learnt Camoflauge.

Edited by Rajahz, 21 August 2013 - 12:14 PM.


maroar #18 Posted 21 August 2013 - 04:24 PM

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View PostRajahz, on 21 August 2013 - 11:46 AM, said:

Hello guys, I'm a newbie and I play Luchs (learning obv) and I wonder what about teaching the driver the Off-road driving ? Is this wrong because many people advice it.
EDIT; Already learnt Camoflauge.

Ok I will tell you why I chose my driver skills like I did, by going through every dedicated driver skill and it's effectiveness (or how effective I think it to be) in the luchs.

Controlled Impact
Decreases ramming damage.
With the luchs only weighin 13.07 tons (in my setup) you are the 2nd lightest tier 4 light tank (with only the T-80 being lighter).
There are only 2 tier 4 artillery lighter then you (and only by a small margin).
You will often face higher tiered, and much heavier, opponents so you will seriously criple yourself by ramming anything and will most likely kill yourself by ramming.
-not effective-

Off-Road Driving
Reduces ground resistance while driving on soft and moderatly soft terrain.
The luchs already has a very low ground resistance and this results in all the slides it makes while turning on higher speeds.
Sliding means losing speed so by lowering my ground resistance I will slide on a lower speed then without this skill (so I will lose speed more often, and speed is key in a scouts survival)
The plus side however is that in a straight line you might get up to speed faster, not by much as luchs already has very low ground resistance.
The drawbacks of this skill, for me, outweigh the advantage it will give, as I am turning allot in my games, also on these high speeds.
-effective in some cases, harmfull in others-

Smooth Ride
Improves accuracy on the move.
This means I will be able to make more hits on an enemy while circling him as more of my shots will hit where I aim.
The big advantage for me however was that your aiming circle will just be smaller when you stop from moving and start aiming to shoot someone.
So when I attack someone I will be in the open and driving, so this skill works for me,
second if im not in the open but am going to attack, I will move out of cover, attack and retreat.
In this scenario " Smooth  Ride" helps aswell . The aimcircle will not be as big when driving out (as without this skill) this means I will use less time aiming, I am able to shoot the enemy sooner and I can then retreat sooner.
This all helps in my survivability and me being able to do damage even in high tier games.
-effective-
(when you only want to do spotting in a match this is ofcourse not an effective skill, but as it can easily do damage in all its matchups I think its highly efective)

Preventive Maintenance
Reduces chance of engine fire.
If you catch fire it might be once a game, If you dont die with the first shot you receive ;)
On every MM tier it gets it can get one-shotted so I want something that will help me survive longer, either by not being shot at or by being able to take out the threat.
-not effective-

Clutch Braking
Increases vehicle rotation speed.
"Clutch Braking" will be either useless or harmfull (and of little use).
Useless, in the sense that on the high speeds you will slide already before you will be able to use this upped traverse speed.
Harmfull, in the way that you will be able to slide on lower speed by the upped traverse and this way you will lose speed wile turning on a lower speed then without the skill.
Little use when not moving forward or backward, pivoting will be slightly faster but the pivot turning speed is already great.
For me these drawbacks again outweigh the (little) advantage.
-not effective-

Hope this helps ;D

Flinsenberger #19 Posted 21 August 2013 - 04:43 PM

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1st of all: Congratulations for deflowering the Hall of Fame for the Luchs :-) I was hoping to be the one, but there is still some skill to pick up, so far my highest was something around 1720.

The only thing I was wondering about: What do think about the deadeye perk as a second skill for the commander. While camo is nice, it can be acquired rather quickly again, esp. the first 50%. I think the high number of rounds makes the Mk 3cm the perfect gun for the deadeye. Too bad my crew isn't there yet, neither on the Luchs nor the Leopard, or I'd happily try it out.

maroar #20 Posted 21 August 2013 - 05:31 PM

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View PostFlinsenberger, on 21 August 2013 - 04:43 PM, said:

1st of all: Congratulations for deflowering the Hall of Fame for the Luchs :-) I was hoping to be the one, but there is still some skill to pick up, so far my highest was something around 1720.

The only thing I was wondering about: What do think about the deadeye perk as a second skill for the commander. While camo is nice, it can be acquired rather quickly again, esp. the first 50%. I think the high number of rounds makes the Mk 3cm the perfect gun for the deadeye. Too bad my crew isn't there yet, neither on the Luchs nor the Leopard, or I'd happily try it out.

A great question and one I am trying to answer for myself as well,
as my crew is getting pretty close to 100% on its 2nd skill

The deadeye perk seems great as you already get allot of modules damaged without it this will only increase that number.
I myself am thinking about a couple of options for my commander.

What I also take in account is the usefullness of the other crewmembers' skills that are left.
What I think are usefull skills (that I dont already have)
C: Snapshot, Deadeye, Designated Target, Recon, Repairs, BIA
D: Repairs, BIA
R: Repairs, BIA
Call for vengence not included: I would much rather have something effective for several minutes (when I'm alive) then 2 seconds (when I die) also I do not plan on getting myself killed ;P
L: BIA, (loader perks dont really seem more usefull to me then repairs or BIA, repairs I already have)

Looking at this I have made 2 options (for myself)

1.
C: BIA, 6th sense, camouflage
D: BIA, camouflage, smooth ride
R: BIA, camouflage, Situational awereness
L: BIA, camouflage, repairs

2
If I will not go for BIA I will probably go for "Snapshot" over "Deadeye" as more hits means higher damage and also higher chance of module damage
C: 6th sense, camouflage, Snapshot
D: camouflage, smooth ride, repairs
R: camouflage, Situational awereness, repairs
L: camouflage, repairs, ?

At the forth skill I might retrain "Snapshot" for "Deadeye" and then start retraining "Snapshot" again, however I dont know if I will get the 3d skill to 100% ;P

Take into account that this is all purely for a Luchs crew, going up to the VK2801 and higher you will have also a gunner.
This means the gunner skills on your commander will then become useless, so if you are planning on selling the luchs and going up to the VK2801 and higher you dont really want to use gunner skills on your commander




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