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The VK 28.01 is Washed Up


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Tazilon #21 Posted 22 August 2013 - 10:34 AM

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View PostLancasthor, on 22 August 2013 - 07:31 AM, said:

GG Taz, but do remember that even with your experience and battle count volume, there must be three miserable failures for every such heroic victory. Claiming VK28 Cougar redeemed because of few good rounds does not really give any justice for those who are new to the sport. Easier path for casual scouts still lies in Chaffee, T71, WZ-132 and AMX-13 trees.

Luckily for us "less favored" vehicle users, every upcoming patch gives hope for a little deserved buff. There is no way WG would bash german scout line even more for "historical accuracy" while putting them constantly against some cold war / NATO -equipment.

But well.. better not make a noise, WG seems to have ran out of common sense lately.

NO tank has a great round every battle.  And every line of Scouts has a dog or two to work through in order to get to a good one.  The point I am making is don't listen to the whiners.  The people who jumped on the 28,01 bandwagon are now unhappy because they lost their gravy train.  Tough!  The Scouts who learned how to actually drive the tank and not just spam HEAT are still racking up good missions.  Anyone else can too if they take the time to learn the tank.

Lancasthor #22 Posted 22 August 2013 - 01:22 PM

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View PostTazilon, on 22 August 2013 - 10:34 AM, said:

NO tank has a great round every battle.  And every line of Scouts has a dog or two to work through in order to get to a good one.  The point I am making is don't listen to the whiners.  The people who jumped on the 28,01 bandwagon are now unhappy because they lost their gravy train.  Tough!  The Scouts who learned how to actually drive the tank and not just spam HEAT are still racking up good missions.  Anyone else can too if they take the time to learn the tank.

That is what happens when you take away an advantage what player rely on. If people got into VK28 to play it as a heat spamming med, of course they're pissed when the HEAT is taken away from the picture. Some of bandvagoneers got definitely hit harder than the sneaky scout players hiding out there.

Nerbatting has other thing in it too.
I'd guess that a majority of experienced KV-1S players would say that it is slightly OP compared to the tier, but only a fraction of those would actually vote for nerfing it ..
.. without talking about 6th Sense -perk. Most of us can admit that it is easily the best perk around, but suggesting to alter it to be on par leads instantly to a sh*tstorm.

Maybe its not about the tank performance, it's about how people are used to play it.
Maybe we are only afraid of the change and efforts to re-learn a bit. That leads to forum rageness and snowball-effect opinions. Case 50-2 seems to go with this idea.

PuchaczTrado #23 Posted 24 August 2013 - 10:52 AM

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Hi Tazilon,
Guess which tank is going to be nerfed in 0.8.8?
Yep, that is VK 28.01. This time nerfes goes to suspension (-2 traverse arc speed) and slightly to engine (same horsepower with more weight), on the other hanf hull weights now less, so whole tanks weight is slightly smaller.

Edited by PuchaczTrado, 24 August 2013 - 11:12 AM.


filefool #24 Posted 24 August 2013 - 03:34 PM

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View PostPuchaczTrado, on 24 August 2013 - 10:52 AM, said:

Hi Tazilon,
Guess which tank is going to be nerfed in 0.8.8?
Yep, that is VK 28.01. This time nerfes goes to suspension (-2 traverse arc speed) and slightly to engine (same horsepower with more weight), on the other hanf hull weights now less, so whole tanks weight is slightly smaller.

Saw that on FTR blog. I know it's not that much worse but considering all the nerfs this vehicle had to endure in the last patches, it does fell like kicking someone who's already down.

Tazilon #25 Posted 25 August 2013 - 04:40 AM

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View PostPuchaczTrado, on 24 August 2013 - 10:52 AM, said:

Hi Tazilon,
Guess which tank is going to be nerfed in 0.8.8?
Yep, that is VK 28.01. This time nerfes goes to suspension (-2 traverse arc speed) and slightly to engine (same horsepower with more weight), on the other hanf hull weights now less, so whole tanks weight is slightly smaller.
Yeah..it basically goes back to same as it was before suspension-wise.  This is 4th or 5th update in a row where some part of the tank got nerfed.  No idea why - it has a terrible Win Rate now.  Why Wargaming feels the need to nerf a tank in the bottom 20% of Win Rate is beyond me.
lol..I'm worried they are going to keep nerfing it until I quit playing it so I won't get all the skills...lol
PS:  Whenever we get the RU251, if it is any good, mine is going to have the best crew in the game!

Edited by Tazilon, 05 September 2013 - 03:09 PM.


voodoospirit #26 Posted 25 August 2013 - 03:51 PM

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do u guys, still use the 10.5 HE or else?

have some troubles with this tank compared to the other tier6 scouts... the 10.5 seems to do low damages 80% of the time (but on scouts), i went on the 7.5 , rof is higher and i seems to do higher damages over the battles...but with the 10.5 , it has an increased chance to damage crew and equipment, as it s not shown during the battles, i might only see low (visible) damages...

savizudis #27 Posted 26 August 2013 - 12:51 PM

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Hi, i had same good batles too. They are rare, and are dependant on team performance, or simply on match making random factor.
Had same fights. Difference no premium here anymore, and if anyone asks of me about premium - premium gives bigg difference for this tank.
Already leaved game for whole month, now im here still nothing new.
Some people wrote it is not about tank nerf its about gameplay with it - and i agree, u cant play with vk as we did before nerfs, un cant dodge shots downhill now - cause tank slower, u cant ram scouts caus u cant catch them, u cant run away from them same speed problem. You cant go for couple shots 1v1 vs is or others now cause u cant circle them at all (unhited), untill u reach hide corner.. and etc etc.
Performance is problem. I'ts not same gameplay anymore. Most active scouting that it had at all, it is decreased awfully now.

Somebody mentioned 6th sence, at my opinion this shit must be removed.
So many heavies escaped from my silent spotings i bet 100% they used 6th sence to go back before artys hit. This is simply bullsshit.

Edited by savizudis, 26 August 2013 - 12:56 PM.


ZecvonZecstein #28 Posted 26 August 2013 - 12:57 PM

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Try playing 2801 without 6th sense lol...

Hammerzeit #29 Posted 26 August 2013 - 01:19 PM

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I think the tank is nowdays uber depressing. I don't even know where to start. The fact ISU derp will probably hit 50% more often, the fact this "light" tank hardly moves nowdays. I mean, i hardly won vs mt-25 yday and im pretty sure if the dude would bother aiming or actualy driving his tank theres no chance in hell to win a duel vs mt.let alone catch it. Since the armor nerf ive never again received a nice bounce on UFP vs another light tank but i do admit i play it rather little nowdays.
The nerfs are just way too much.Let alone you can't circle, you can't even half circle and if you do it,you will probably miss anyway from point blank and than you will get killed cause theres no way you can get out unless you playing vs bots. Scouting? pls. I was playing it for the last couple of days for the x5s, with 500% crew, case of cola & 110% gasoline each battle.... and the tank is still a tottal SH!T. MAkes me wanna create a new /rage thread in the forums each time i drive it out for a spin.And yeah im sure I cannot adapt to this new "awesome" vk and that the tank is still awesome yada yada... im wondering what is its role nowdays? drag your team down unless you get lucky with enemy tomatoes that you can derp with HEAT repedeately cause they dont have idea you are parked 5 m behind them? Pretty much the only scenario i see this tank working.
just..gahhhh fu wg for ruining the vk with your herp derp noob help HEAT shells.And its forever pissing me off that the community gave you tons of better solutions on how to deal with the nerf but no lets fuck them.
Untill next time when you nerf the chaffe. Or, god forbid, when I take my vk28 out again for a spin.
sry for rage taz :D gg

Edited by Hammerzeit, 26 August 2013 - 01:30 PM.


savizudis #30 Posted 26 August 2013 - 11:29 PM

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*ps on topic - simply gg, nice batle, i may say, thats why i liked and still litle bit like vk :)

View PostZhmirko, on 26 August 2013 - 12:57 PM, said:

Try playing 2801 without 6th sense lol...
lol - yes, sounds like lol, and i loled, but.. :
and no,  half batles i played wihtout 6th sence or maybe even 60%+ (simply didnt know how egzactly this thing works, and used something else) and yes i was normal and playable with old vk performance, good scout knows where and then he may be countered
maybe 6th sence must be option as for scouts only..

Edited by savizudis, 26 August 2013 - 11:34 PM.


Lancasthor #31 Posted 27 August 2013 - 07:07 AM

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View Postsavizudis, on 26 August 2013 - 11:29 PM, said:

maybe 6th sence must be option as for scouts only..

This is one hot potato.
Majority of "good" players have learnt to rely on 6th sense on almost all of their tanks and they just dont want to see their offbalance secret weapon nerfed or altered.
Instant sh*tstorm will occur if you suggest such thing even if such idea itself has plenty of sense behind it.

I recall seeing devs suggesting some alterations to 6th in future patches though. Lets see how this plays out.

Tazilon #32 Posted 30 August 2013 - 07:54 AM

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View PostLancasthor, on 27 August 2013 - 07:07 AM, said:

This is one hot potato.
Majority of "good" players have learnt to rely on 6th sense on almost all of their tanks and they just dont want to see their offbalance secret weapon nerfed or altered.
Instant sh*tstorm will occur if you suggest such thing even if such idea itself has plenty of sense behind it.
I recall seeing devs suggesting some alterations to 6th in future patches though. Lets see how this plays out.
6th Sense is hardly a "secret weapon".  It has been promoted as a must have perk since skills/perks came out and it is widely known as a must have perk throughout the player base.  There is nothing "secret" about it.

Edited by Tazilon, 30 August 2013 - 07:54 AM.


Lancasthor #33 Posted 30 August 2013 - 09:01 AM

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View PostTazilon, on 30 August 2013 - 07:54 AM, said:

6th Sense is hardly a "secret weapon".  It has been promoted as a must have perk since skills/perks came out and it is widely known as a must have perk throughout the player base.  There is nothing "secret" about it.

According to these unofficial server statistics, majority of EU (and US) server players have around 1000 battles played.
http://wot-news.com/...rver/eu/norm/en

How many 200% crews did you have at that point?
And how can you tell about the usefulness of 6th sense when you havent ever visited a forum, havent tried them all or bluntly do not care a damn thing.

In this light, rookie driving a shiny VI -tier against a veteran with well chosen 300% crew. surely gives the edge for the one who can distinquish a bad skill from a good one.

Tazilon #34 Posted 30 August 2013 - 02:55 PM

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View PostLancasthor, on 30 August 2013 - 09:01 AM, said:

According to these unofficial server statistics, majority of EU (and US) server players have around 1000 battles played.
http://wot-news.com/...rver/eu/norm/en
How many 200% crews did you have at that point?
And how can you tell about the usefulness of 6th sense when you havent ever visited a forum, havent tried them all or bluntly do not care a damn thing.
In this light, rookie driving a shiny VI -tier against a veteran with well chosen 300% crew. surely gives the edge for the one who can distinquish a bad skill from a good one.
Not having a skill doesn't make it a secret.
  
People who don't care, don't care so 6th Sense won't annoy them - they don't care.
There are PLENTY of guides and advice out there telling people which skills are good and which aren't, as well as telling them to move their crews to new tanks as they progress up the tech trees, thus enabling them to have highly skilled crews as they go.  New players trying to learn the game DO visit the forums and read guides, so they know.  Players who aren't motivated to learn and improve are mincemeat no matter what level crew skill they have so it is irrelevant whether they know about 6th Sense or not.
I have 4-5 tanks in my garage right now without 6th Sense because the crews are too young to have it.  Do I think that is unfair?  Heck no - it is part of the learning curve and growing pains for each tank I acquire.
I detest wannabes who only want Easy Street.  wah - it's so unfair he has something i don't..wah, wah, mommmmmmmyyyyyyy - help me mommmy - that big ugly unfair man has toys i don't....wahhh....  You are playing a WAR game- suck it up soldier and fight like a man.  
Things such as 6th Sense are REWARDS for having stuck with the game.  They are not game changing.  You can shoot someone with 6 th Sense before it even goes off warning them they are seen.

Edited by Tazilon, 30 August 2013 - 03:02 PM.


voodoospirit #35 Posted 31 August 2013 - 06:33 PM

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i played my ELC (started wot with the french scout tree....not  the easier ones) over 400 battles without 6th sense....dont remember what i had on the commander... recon or something like that to compensate the small view range. first time i put it is when i climbed the russian tree with the t-50 and thought....ok, it might be useful for my ELC.
6th sens improved my survability in active scouting ( reverse scouting) but all in all,  it allowed me more , to keep shooting knowing i didn t got spotted instead of backing in case of...., in active scouting, i KNOW that i might be spotted so i play like i already got spotted..
6th sense takes some time to show off, i got killed before it showed ( or hit while the lamp showed), it s not instant...it s more like a reminder: heyyyy dude, u GOT SPOTTED 3sec AGO!!!! EVADE!!!
my hellcat is upgraded but the crew is at 88% (didn t spent gold)..i get killed because i dont know that i got spotted but it s fair...i m grinding the crew, i just try to be a bit more behind so i can stay alive a bit longer.
a green lamp would be cool to tell u , that u r not spotted anymore....might be a bit too easy tho.
now all my scouts have 6th sense...and my 2 grinding TD will have.
all in all, i think that 6th sense should be restricted to scouts and arties or low armored tanks.

Edited by voodoospirit, 31 August 2013 - 06:35 PM.


savizudis #36 Posted 05 September 2013 - 12:35 AM

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thats what i mean, wot doesnt need it at all, it removes surrprise factor and normal map awareness ; it enchances beyond normal abilities cause normaly u cant see rival from many distances
at other side yes im using it its best skill ever, this topic is against my own will, but its fare - 6th sence ruins gameplay
and now 2 scouts facing eatch other (unseen, and well hiden in bushes) with 6th sences knows already about each other - this is LOL , strategicaly this changes game behaviour alot

Edited by savizudis, 05 September 2013 - 12:36 AM.


Cobra6 #37 Posted 05 September 2013 - 09:54 AM

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They've nerfed the VK2801 too hard.

They should have nerfed either the mobility or the gun, not both.

It's pretty much useless now, it's a hige slow target with a gun that can't do much anymore. Untill the mobility is fixed or the gun is buffed I will not play this one anymore.

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KimiSVK #38 Posted 07 September 2013 - 08:04 PM

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after cca year i know theres somebody that has more vk2801 battles than me (3700+), i finally managed to watch some of your replay, i read your guide also like year ago
about replay: interesting spot at start - safe and u can spot, but are there always any tanks? and u didnt even use binoculars...why? i got optics,vents and bino
when u went down and i was suprised u shoot jagdpanzer from 350m distance, i woudnt shoot because i think id be spotted but u werent,
when i dont want to be spotted and dont have any bush/tree to cover i shoot at least from 375m, do u know other tank view ranges to guess that distance?
also do u guess distance of spotting when not shooting? i keep atleast 300m distance from T8 and like 280m from T6
about nerfing: in my case i had 58% winrate for like year and now i got 57%, dunno if its because players are more skilled or more ppl use 6th sense,
id rather disable 6tx sense for everybody
i love the vk because it can spot, shoot and damage any tank not covered in bush without being spotted, and that didnt change, i also can do this in elc amx but being mostly in 7tier battles is boring and that terrible radio range...
and also i love that lot of players underestimate vk :)

bosqit #39 Posted 07 September 2013 - 08:23 PM

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are they going to nerf vk28 in 8.8???

"Changed the engines and characteristics of German vehicles: Е-50, E-75, Jagdpanther, Jagdpanther II, Jagdtiger, Panther II, Panther, Tiger, Tiger II, VK 28.01."

i saw someone mentioned trav. speed to be nerfed... thats bad. very bad.

it's already the worst t6 light nowadays http://www.vbaddict....=won_lost_ratio

HariSeldon #40 Posted 09 September 2013 - 08:28 AM

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Another patch another neft. And the nerfbat continue. At some point they will see the win ratio and make a huge buff, right?

Now i'm not close to drive it again anytime soon, my crew is having a great time in the T15, making top guns and ridiculous amount of exp by sealclubing in tier 3 with a 4 almost 5 skill crew. It's not my fault, wg make it happen!!




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