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Changes for the VK 36.01 (H)


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Pootchy #121 Posted 27 August 2013 - 09:00 AM

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Tank Acc. is a lot worse
Konisch nerfed
new Topspeed is useless
Top gun 132Pen for Tier 6 Heavy?
Rip VK3601h :(
Those usless german tank nerfs --- WG u are shitt..
I knew why i havent played german tanks on my very first year of wot. then i decided to grind some german tanks (e75 & co) and know they all get nerfed time by time...
dont play german tanks, they will get nerfed anyway...
this was my last german grind...

Edited by Pootchy, 27 August 2013 - 09:11 AM.


Dadoz79 #122 Posted 27 August 2013 - 09:20 AM

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I repeat my suggestion.

88L56 Penetration to 145mm (still inferior to real one end not umbalanced even for the other 88/56 user).
Maybach HL 174 to 550 hp (hystorical one end not game umbalanced).
Increase Konish DPM on VK3601 H (you cannont nerd dpm alpha end make him a heavy thank nerfing mobility, giving 50 hp as consolation prize).

If cospiracy/bias is not the case, what is it? Incompentence? Business strategy? (making all the german user left for the new crappy umbalanced fantasy tank?) Try to make a balanced heavy one at least, cause is not balanced at all now, german user should have tank usable for company too, not only KV1S end IS3.

GibMeister #123 Posted 27 August 2013 - 09:26 AM

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Every battle I have played in the test server the vk36 has been bottom tier, so its hard to get fair impression, the konisch still works fine although damage is poor now. but the worst thing is the slow sluggish performance its horrible. mine will be sold if that's how it stays, too nerfed.

Takeda92 #124 Posted 27 August 2013 - 09:55 AM

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the problem with the konisch alpha now is that gun is available in VK30.01H which is tier 5 heavy now. they probably nerfed the alhpa to make it reasonable for tier 5 (and that gun is the only thing good in that tank anyway), and RoF boost in tier 6 VK. so now they are stuck because whatever they do to the gun it will effect both tanks!

FubarOldGit #125 Posted 27 August 2013 - 11:49 AM

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can the konisch gun be used with the stock turret as original ??

Despots #126 Posted 27 August 2013 - 12:05 PM

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That means that top gun at T6 is the same gun as in T5 (konisch). Why the hell i should keep VK3601? Just sell it and enjoy VK3001H (although there is not much to enjoy besides staying back and sniping).
WG should change alpha dmg back, but reduce RoF for T5 gun and give back normal RoF for T6

Xandrass #127 Posted 27 August 2013 - 12:48 PM

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For VK3001H on V tier take away Konisch and leave only 75mm L/70 (150mm penetration / 135dmg)
For VK3601H and Panther A (scaut) leave Konisch with the same damage like on 8.7 patch (157mm penetration, 165dmg). Reload cant be like now, about 4,3s (team on 100% + ventilation)
Change penetration for short 88mm? To many tanks use this gun, so better don't change it.

christos_swc #128 Posted 27 August 2013 - 02:34 PM

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My VK3601H is picking up dust.
I will take it out again after the patch because I very much liked playing it as a "heavy" with the L/56, even if I was a noob back then and didn't do it justice, especially during the grind.
Since the Konisch got a buff the L/56 was not a decent choice and I found the Konisch very boring.
Sure it was great, played a few games, trolled people and got Top Guns and stopped playing it.
So I will immediately sell my hard nerfed Tiger 2 and take out the 3601H again, with the correct gun this time.
Pen is a touch low but heavy tank playstyle that should not prevent it from reaching greatness.
Just forget about long range shots at decently armored targets.
If anything I rarely found myself being fully aimed shooting with the Konisch.
If I missed a shot I didn't mind because I had another one coming soon after that.
Time to learn how to shoot again when you cannot afford misses.
I can understand all you guys feeling frustrated after this patch, I have my quarrels concerning some specific tanks that I will now sell and be done with it.
But seeing as the Tiger is a sniper and will be more of a sniper in the next patch, the Tiger 2 will be relegated from heavy to "sniper heavy", my only German tank I can currently play and enjoy as a heavy will be the VK3601H.
Sadly that's the case.
The only really rough part about the gameplay of the 3601H with the L/56 is what happens when you get into tier 7 or 8 battles.
I remember I never felt as disappointed and inclined to jump into a river or go AFK(both of which I have never done) than in tier 8 battles with the 3601H and Jagdpanzer IV.
Playing as top tier you have a chance against KV-1Ss but in high tier battles you will often find KV-1Ss finishing top of the exp list while you find yourself mid pack at best.
If I have to say something to WG is that they should make sure the MM of the 3601H protects it from getting into high tier battles often.

Edited by christos_swc, 27 August 2013 - 02:55 PM.


Maxmk6 #129 Posted 27 August 2013 - 03:18 PM

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I reckon this is a total disaster and fail. For me, just as good as how the VK36 played was how attractive it looked with the standard fast traverse turret & konisch gun. It looked like a listiger wolf, it looked like what it was. Now it seems, the only option is to use the ugly frankenstein second turret to gain the extra hp coz the traverse rates are same for both, and to mount the r'tard 88. Well done WG, you just killed what was a keeper tank, that I spent (wasted) gold on to buy a garage slot, permanent camo & inscriptions. With this change, you made WOT's far less interesting and far far less attractive.
And what justification was there? According to noobmeter.com, the VK36 was played 75% more than any other tier 6 medium, the next most popular being the T34-85. But that's not extreme, every tier & category has a tank that's played roughly that much more than the rest, and they're not being nerfed into oblivion. But the KV1s is played 650% more than the next most popular tier 6 hvy, which is another way OP Russian tank the KV2. 650% more - and you decide to nerf the VK36!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So clearly, it's not for game balance or to reduce any over representation of a tank in game. Fine, if you must, reduce the alpha on the konisch & buff it's rof but leave everything else the same so we have a chance to make that work. How do you make a low alpha gun work when u are too slow to advance & retreat quickly out of cover and with rubbish turret traverse? How do you make it work with no camo factor? It's just a joke. And worst an ugly joke.
WHY DIDN'T YOU JUST RELABEL IT A HEAVY AND LEAVE EVERYTHING ABOUT IT THE SAME. WHY HAVE YOU MADE IT SO WE HAVE TO USE THE FRANKENSTEIN SECOND TURRET.

Edited by Maxmk6, 27 August 2013 - 03:26 PM.


McPaddy #130 Posted 27 August 2013 - 05:33 PM

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Oops they do it again ... Dear WG i cant believe it, the next tank "balanced" to death! What is your intension? For me and many other players it means frustration ... not the first one. You call it "balancing" ... but by the way this is impossible! Pure balance means absolutely equal values for every tank ... that would be a boring game. The fascination of the game is to find tanks who are different, with an extraordinary aspect. You grind for him, you train your crew and so on. You are happy with him. But then the almighty WG balancers take your tank out of your hand and make a piece of discarded metal out of it. That means negative vibes and frustration for the players. They are ANGRY.
Angry and frustratet persons dont spent money for a game. At the moment no similar game is out there .. But times are changing!
P.S.: My "gifttank" Pz.Kpfw. V/IV from the pre-order pack was the first big disapointment with wg. WG must realy hate his faithful clients to present such a "gift".

Edited by McPaddy, 27 August 2013 - 05:39 PM.


Hydro_Argentum #131 Posted 27 August 2013 - 05:37 PM

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Sorry if i only compare the VK 36 to the russian heavies or maybe the Tiger but i only got experience with them. ;)
The old VK 36 was/is my favourite tank, so i don't like the change of course.

Mobility:(-)
Somewhere between the KV-1 and the KV-1S, you are sloooowww. Even if you don't compare it with the old VK 36 (also slow-ish) you will still need hours to get a good sniping position.
If you want to climb a hill: forget about it, it feels like a D2.  Top speed is a plain lie. They could also could have said top speed is light speed.

Turret Traverse:(--)
Also very slow. Of course it's because its a heavy, but the traverse is less than the speed of the KV-1S or the M6. With a high Alpha you could stop the light/medium that is circling you at the beginning, but with this low Alpha....
Easy prey for every fast medium and light. Even a luchs can penetrate the side/back armor. With the old Stock turret or the old speed it was no problem to shot the circler., but now...

Armor:(+-)
Nothing changed. The value is high but its completely unsloped and even with angling its very difficult to dodge many bullets from higher tiers. With the big weakspots in front its even more difficult.
Good enough against lower tiers but it becomes a second line tank in its tier and above. Thats no great change to the old VK, but now its a heavy. Many player think heavies are front tanks and if you stay in second line with your tiger they start insulting you. I can ignore them but it brings a kind of toxicity to the game.

Weapon:(--)
Lower Alpha with same DPM doesn't look like a bad thing at first, but it is. So often you only got the chance of ONE shot, after this the enemy is behind cover or you must draw back to not be shot at. Peek-a-boo duels are always lost (and so every fight in a town).
If you meet a KV-1S and you both are at 300 HP it is always lost for you. And so on...
The DPM is also lower the the 122-boomstick, even if you meet on a open field (noob tactics)
The 8,8 doesn't have enough penetration in my opinion. Try to scratch a higher tier tank with it. They often bounce even the konisch on high range on their weakspots. (Sniper? I don't think so...i hate the IS-3)
Also they gave you only 5% more grenades (68-->72) while they decreased the damage by 22% . It doesn't happen very often that you shoot all your bullets, but i think its a point to mention.

All-in-all: Beloved tank, now for sale.
It was the best german tank imo. And the germans have overall the worst tanks (in this game).


My personal conspiracy theory:
They made the german tanks in a way they look good on paper without further thinking:
High top speed (but no horsepower), high DPM (but low alpha), high armor (but unsloped), high accuracy (but low camo value)
So they can say: german tanks are very strong, look at these values, why buff them? Better nerf them some more....


Historical Accurency?
The KV-1 only had the ZiS-5 with only 111 rounds, the first tank with the 122 mm was the IS-2.  So no boomstick for the KV-1S (it had a ZiS-5) , just sayin'...

burocracy #132 Posted 27 August 2013 - 05:40 PM

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View PostTakeda92, on 27 August 2013 - 03:37 AM, said:

I may agree that vk isn't that good anymore and it may have trouble competing.. but I do not agree that the pz4 is useless crap tank. now i do not know how was it before this nerf you speak of, but now, even with just the 75mm I still find it fun.. one of my favorite tanks. I got my ace tanker in it a week ago.

probably WG knew that the players that are used to the medium vk mostly will not like this new vk. but those new players who will come after 8.8, or those who never used it before will probably find a way to make this tank works.. or at least have fun in it like I did with the pz4. and who knows, maybe after the patch is live and sometime WG will check the tanks stats and see it is not performing as it should be, and they'll give it a buff!

He was referring to the Panzer IV S premium, which IS a crap tank.

christos_swc #133 Posted 27 August 2013 - 06:04 PM

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View Postburocracy, on 27 August 2013 - 05:40 PM, said:

He was referring to the Panzer IV S premium, which IS a crap tank.

Panzer IV S is as good in tier 6 as Tiger is in Tier 7.
And actually better because it bounces lower tiers, unlike the Tiger.

Maxmk6 #134 Posted 27 August 2013 - 07:10 PM

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Unlike the Pz4s, the Tiger is an awesome tank. It does fine in tier 7. It's good early game as a sniper, and it works really well if mid / late game you are prepared to use it's speed and agility to use it very aggressively, like it was used and worked in history, which is a concern coz if it now accelerates slower in 8.8 coz of WG's psychotic German hating nerf bat it will be less viable than before, at least in the play style I found works for it. And it does bounce shots, you just have to learn to sidescrape and angle and when the time is right to keep moving fast as you can - coz it's accurate on the move and obviously being at speed puts the enemy aim off. And at least at it's own tier, an aggressive Tiger scares / panics them.

The Pz4s is bad because it is only a support tank and it only has the Stug tier 5 rof on it's 75mm, and if u are in a poor team that loses too many too fast and so too many enemy get too close, even if u r hull down, it can't hold it's ground against multiple targets. I nearly always do at least 200% of it's own HP's in damage, but only have a 47% win rate in it, way below my other German mediums & sniping tanks. The Pz4s needs buffing. But no, it's German, so won't happen. In fact, let's nerf bat it some more. Please, WG, I don't want to just hate my German tanks, I want to utterly despise them, just like you clearly do.

Louis2brosGummer #135 Posted 27 August 2013 - 08:54 PM

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Changed German tanks are much too slow and sluggish now. They cannot defend themselves properly in close combat. They are not fun to play anymore = sell

razierster #136 Posted 28 August 2013 - 07:44 AM

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the mother of all problem an unbalanced game is 88mm L56 that is basically a shit with 132mm of penetration. Infact the put 88mm L70 on Tiger P and Tiger H, and add 105 on jadgpanther, etc... Storically 88mm L56 was a GREAT cannon.

_Whiteman_ #137 Posted 28 August 2013 - 07:54 AM

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Because historically russians win...with american vehicles !!! Sorry for misstopic...
The solution for german vehicle is the give him a real historically 88 mm gun.
VK3601 without a proper gun is rubbish. Sell it.

christos_swc #138 Posted 28 August 2013 - 10:26 AM

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View PostMaxmk6, on 27 August 2013 - 07:10 PM, said:

Unlike the Pz4s, the Tiger is an awesome tank. It does fine in tier 7. It's good early game as a sniper, and it works really well if mid / late game you are prepared to use it's speed and agility to use it very aggressively, like it was used and worked in history, which is a concern coz if it now accelerates slower in 8.8 coz of WG's psychotic German hating nerf bat it will be less viable than before, at least in the play style I found works for it. And it does bounce shots, you just have to learn to sidescrape and angle and when the time is right to keep moving fast as you can - coz it's accurate on the move and obviously being at speed puts the enemy aim off. And at least at it's own tier, an aggressive Tiger scares / panics them.
The Pz4s is bad because it is only a support tank and it only has the Stug tier 5 rof on it's 75mm, and if u are in a poor team that loses too many too fast and so too many enemy get too close, even if u r hull down, it can't hold it's ground against multiple targets. I nearly always do at least 200% of it's own HP's in damage, but only have a 47% win rate in it, way below my other German mediums & sniping tanks. The Pz4s needs buffing. But no, it's German, so won't happen. In fact, let's nerf bat it some more. Please, WG, I don't want to just hate my German tanks, I want to utterly despise them, just like you clearly do.
I have to disagree with pretty much everything.
I too at first had a 46-47% win rate in the IV S.
Then I concentrated on playing it like it should be played and did at least 800 damage per battle and my win rate went up to 52,5%.
It would go higher but I got bored.
The IV S gave me my only Kolobanovs in the game.
Because playing as top tier my gun was not only powerful but the armor started to work and ding shots as well.
A Tiger would be weak even if it were a tier 6 heavy.
I have 632 battles in the IV S and 865 battles in the Tiger so it's fair tosay I speak from personal experience, and what this experience says is that the IV S is a better tank, plus it's extremely effective as top tier unlike the Tiger that gets trolled by every tier 6 gun in the game.
Ask any Tiger driver to tell you if he feels any joy and senses a great opportunity whenever he gets in to a tier 7 battle when it's only him or maybe one or two other tier 7s.
He has to carry but cannot lead the attack or he will get decimated by anything that fires at him.
Now the Tiger doesn't bounce shots.
It's a very good sidescraper and that's it.
The tactical use of sidescraping is of limited tactical use.
I have a video of me holding off an entire flank of enemies sidescraping but that is rare and involved also lower tiers and luck:
http://www.youtube.c...esjvAVg_sZnjqUv
What this video showcases is that sidescraping is a defensive tactic and also situational.
And the turret of the Tiger only managed to hold off low pen shots.
Angling at a perfect angle will give the Tiger 128mm of armor sides and front which is still laughable and doesn't take into account even AP normalization.
8.8 brings serious buffs to the Tiger.
I'm convinced it will now be a strong tier 7.
But I don't like these changes and am still disappointed.
I'm disappointed because the Tiger having insufficient armor under all conditions was a support tank/sniper and it will remain so, in fact they have decided to enhance it's abilities in this role.
A sniper TD.
A heavy tank must act as a heavy and be capable in that role.
So I don't care how strong the Tiger is, it is not a heavy.
It's advertised as being the tier 7 German heavy and it is impossible for it to fulfill that role.
It can now go into battle with it's newly found dpm and turret armor and decimate the opposition, I do not care, because all that will ever shoot at it will still go through.
I bet you play the German heavy line to play heavies.

EDIT: This is my Kolobanovs in the Pz IV S:
http://www.youtube.c...mf_6_65o-CRKLkL
Anything like this is out of the question for a Tiger playing against whatever tier opponents.

Edited by christos_swc, 28 August 2013 - 10:33 AM.


JackDanielsIMOW #139 Posted 28 August 2013 - 10:40 AM

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You do know that WG don't read this right? They didn't read it for the removal of the T50-2, and they won't read it for this.

Honestly I don't know what they're thinking at the moment, One minute they say they have to remove a tank for "historical accuracy" the next they're reclassifying and nerfing another due to "game balance". When was the last time anyone had a fight with a 36.01H and thought, bloody hell that things well OP.
I know some people had this issue with the T50-2 as well but frankly they just needed to learn to lead a target and not get isolated in a 1 on 1 with it in a heavy tank. The ELC AMX at T5 is much more dangerous than the 50-2 ever was.

I've only relatively recently picked up the 36.01H and find it fine, not great, not cack, just fine. Not as good as the Cromwell, better than the T34-85 (IMO).

It seems off that they're giving it a very typically "medium" gun whilst promoting the tank to Heavy status. decent pen, low damage guns are at their best whilst flanking, If you're going head to head or peekaboom with them then prepare to lose, but as a Heavy you'll be expected to do just that.

I'm only grinding through it anyway to progress up the German heavy line. My T6 keepers are the KV-1S (obv), Hellcat and Cromwell.

goirad #140 Posted 28 August 2013 - 11:45 AM

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Dear Wargaming ,
The VK 36.01 h was the Prototype of the Tiger , why dies it not get the 8.8 L 71 gun with slightly worse Stats ?
Wouldnt it make Sense if it was like the Tiger 1 just a Bit worse?