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E-50M really does get 150mm armour.


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EemeIi #61 Posted 27 August 2013 - 07:52 AM

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View PostJudqment8, on 24 August 2013 - 01:50 PM, said:

The 150mm armor is more like a nerf than an actual buff. The E50 had such a unique feature of having both UFP and LFP with the same 120mm armor. Nowadays the E50 will get much more often with that mobility and such a weak LFP.
Many others said this earlier in the thread and I think you guys are overreacting a lot. I'd expect the armor changes to be a small buff, but I'll have to see how it is on live server (as should you).
Sure, versus tier 8 enemies (pen ~ 210), you don't have as reliable armor, but versus tier 10 enemies (pen ~ 260) you have much better armor, as they would've penetrated your both LFP and UFP, and now they might penetrate only the LFP. And you are saying this is an uncalled nerf?
And FYI, people will still hit the UFP, I do it once in a while and I'm a good player. In case you forgot the guns aren't infinitely accurate, people sometimes shoot hastily aimed shots, and your LFP isn't 100% visible all the time. And in long ranges where the 50m shines I'd say this is quite a buff. Remember that the UFP is a big target and if you are shooting from 400-500 meters it should ding a lot.
As for the mantlet changes: yes, it is smaller but not by a lot. Mainly the upper left/right and the lower areas of the turret are weaker now. But does it make a difference? No one is going to shoot below mantlet as you might hit the UFP. The upper areas are a weakness but I expect that it doesn't matter a lot as the largest hit zones are still bottom left and right turret. And their size hasn't really changed. I.e. only marginal difference.
Inb4 russian bias: I like German tanks and the 50m is so far my only tier 10. I think it shouldn't be nerfed, but I also feel that these changes aren't a nerf, more of a small buff. Yet every time there are some changes people say that the buffs don't matter at all ('nobody shoots the UFP', 'more HP for E-100 just means more XP for enemy team') and that the nerfs are devastating ('omg you can pen the small area between the mantlet and the UFP'). Please be a bit more reasonable.

Edited by EemeIi, 27 August 2013 - 07:53 AM.


shapeshifter #62 Posted 27 August 2013 - 07:57 AM

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View PostPanocek, on 23 August 2013 - 04:37 PM, said:

What is more interesting, is -8 gun depression instead old -6. And the same applies to almost all altered tanks (Panther, P2, E-50, Tiger II got -8. Tiger I got "only" -7)
EDIT
Test driven E-50M - indeed, gun depression is improved, but not when facing forward "to avoid clipping with headlight"  :sceptic:  So to utilise it you need to seriously overangle yourself, as gun needs to "leave" glacis area. Dunno about others.

It's actually a nerf, sure we got -8 for the sides, but it's now -5 for the entire front. (currently -6 in 8.7)

Eokokok #63 Posted 27 August 2013 - 08:01 AM

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Cute move - invent a tank and then claim it has to be nerfed because it couldn't have this or that in real life... 8.6 sucked, but this might as well be last patch for me...

Trakais #64 Posted 27 August 2013 - 09:36 AM

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View PostEemeIi, on 27 August 2013 - 07:52 AM, said:

Many others said this earlier in the thread and I think you guys are overreacting a lot. I'd expect the armor changes to be a small buff, but I'll have to see how it is on live server (as should you).
Sure, versus tier 8 enemies (pen ~ 210), you don't have as reliable armor, but versus tier 10 enemies (pen ~ 260) you have much better armor, as they would've penetrated your both LFP and UFP, and now they might penetrate only the LFP. And you are saying this is an uncalled nerf?
And FYI, people will still hit the UFP, I do it once in a while and I'm a good player. In case you forgot the guns aren't infinitely accurate, people sometimes shoot hastily aimed shots, and your LFP isn't 100% visible all the time. And in long ranges where the 50m shines I'd say this is quite a buff. Remember that the UFP is a big target and if you are shooting from 400-500 meters it should ding a lot.
As for the mantlet changes: yes, it is smaller but not by a lot. Mainly the upper left/right and the lower areas of the turret are weaker now. But does it make a difference? No one is going to shoot below mantlet as you might hit the UFP. The upper areas are a weakness but I expect that it doesn't matter a lot as the largest hit zones are still bottom left and right turret. And their size hasn't really changed. I.e. only marginal difference.
Inb4 russian bias: I like German tanks and the 50m is so far my only tier 10. I think it shouldn't be nerfed, but I also feel that these changes aren't a nerf, more of a small buff. Yet every time there are some changes people say that the buffs don't matter at all ('nobody shoots the UFP', 'more HP for E-100 just means more XP for enemy team') and that the nerfs are devastating ('omg you can pen the small area between the mantlet and the UFP'). Please be a bit more reasonable.

Please, tell me more how a tank with paper LFP and paper turret can use strong UFP reliably. Oh wait, it can't, just look at E-100, shoot its LFP or load gold and make Swiss cheese out of that turret, who gives a crap about that impenetrable UFP. And in the case of E-50M UFP won't even stop goldshells.

And that current 120mm isn't there to stop all shells, no tier X has the armor to reliably stop tier X shells, it's there to stop lower tiers and some tier X shells when you correctly angle. With LFP being 100mm, it will fail to stop even my farts, angled or not.

And at 400-500 metres shells lose enough pen to actually ding on the current UFP of E-50M so that 150mm UFP buff is more than useless.

But hey, I see you are a hardcore E-50M player with whopping 37 battles in it, I bet you know everything about it. I was wondering, how a person can write so much bullsh*t in one post.

EemeIi #65 Posted 27 August 2013 - 12:10 PM

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View PostTrakais, on 27 August 2013 - 09:36 AM, said:

But hey, I see you are a hardcore E-50M player with whopping 37 battles in it, I bet you know everything about it. I was wondering, how a person can write so much bullsh*t in one post.
Ad hominem aside, let's see if you have some real critique.

View PostTrakais, on 27 August 2013 - 09:36 AM, said:

Please, tell me more how a tank with paper LFP and paper turret can use strong UFP reliably. Oh wait, it can't, just look at E-100, shoot its LFP or load gold and make Swiss cheese out of that turret, who gives a crap about that impenetrable UFP. And in the case of E-50M UFP won't even stop goldshells.
I never said you can use it reliably. The fact is that the 150mm UFP is much stronger than the 120mm one, and thus it will bounce a lot more. Sure only tomato players will aim at the UFP, but everyone will hit it at times since there are no guns with infinite accuracy. And if a ding occasionally makes a 500 HP difference, it is a noticable armor buff.

View PostTrakais, on 27 August 2013 - 09:36 AM, said:

And that current 120mm isn't there to stop all shells, no tier X has the armor to reliably stop tier X shells, it's there to stop lower tiers and some tier X shells when you correctly angle. With LFP being 100mm, it will fail to stop even my farts, angled or not.
This is exactly the attitude I'm talking about. 100mm armor is useless, 120mm is decent and 150mm is pretty much the same as 120mm. Did you really think about that one?

View PostTrakais, on 27 August 2013 - 09:36 AM, said:

And at 400-500 metres shells lose enough pen to actually ding on the current UFP of E-50M so that 150mm UFP buff is more than useless.
What about 200-300 meters?

Edited by EemeIi, 27 August 2013 - 12:10 PM.


Eokokok #66 Posted 27 August 2013 - 12:18 PM

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150mm, nice, but turret has been nerfed to hell, now it has 0 working armour, so good luck, call it a buff if you want...

Conte_Vincero #67 Posted 27 August 2013 - 02:04 PM

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View PostTrakais, on 27 August 2013 - 09:36 AM, said:


And that current 120mm isn't there to stop all shells, no tier X has the armor to reliably stop tier X shells, it's there to stop lower tiers and some tier X shells when you correctly angle. With LFP being 100mm, it will fail to stop even my farts, angled or not.

I dunno, I have some seriously epic farts


ChaosAeternus #68 Posted 30 August 2013 - 10:10 PM

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View PostEemeIi, on 27 August 2013 - 12:10 PM, said:

Ad hominem aside, let's see if you have some real critique.

I never said you can use it reliably. The fact is that the 150mm UFP is much stronger than the 120mm one, and thus it will bounce a lot more. Sure only tomato players will aim at the UFP, but everyone will hit it at times since there are no guns with infinite accuracy. And if a ding occasionally makes a 500 HP difference, it is a noticable armor buff.

This is exactly the attitude I'm talking about. 100mm armor is useless, 120mm is decent and 150mm is pretty much the same as 120mm. Did you really think about that one?

What about 200-300 meters?

How about you think what you are writing to one of the best, and most respected 50m players on the server? You dont have enough battles to even know this tank well, and you seem not to understand the mechanics either lookin at what you just wrote.

daxxl #69 Posted 30 August 2013 - 11:43 PM

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Oh yes.. go nerf the german mediums... give them weaker armour... that's like the best thing of the E50 and E50M it is an awesome support tank..
also with the engine nerf of all german tanks E50 will be shit.

so awesome that my 2nd T10 I will have will get nerfed soo hard that I am not looking forward to it to spend +6mcr on it...
thx WG.. thx..

go nerf the E75 bottem plate instead of the E50 and E50M that would be awesome.
because even witha  fucking 221mm pen gun of the E50 you can't pen the bottem plate of a E75... nerf that tank but not the medium

Panocek #70 Posted 31 August 2013 - 11:47 AM

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Well... I must say I like new E-50M a lot - durable glacis not only is durable, but also improves sidescraping options (you have to hide LFP, upper one can be visible as it should stop most shells except gold and TD), to the point it can take some serious abuse

Posted Image

Yes, E-50 tank can no longer pedotank poor IS-3 or KT with uniform, weakspotless armor. So here is a nerf, but in return with minor skills, just to hide LFP wiggle forward/back and you can pedotank almost everything but biggest guns around. And even them can bounce occasionally.

Tobiaz1991 #71 Posted 01 September 2013 - 03:39 AM

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Quote

Yes, E-50 tank can no longer pedotank poor IS-3 or KT with uniform, weakspotless armor. So here is a nerf, but in return with minor skills, just to hide LFP wiggle forward/back and you can pedotank almost everything but biggest guns around. And even them can bounce occasionally.

apparently you dont get the point? the turret has been nerfed into oblivion, and the lower plate cannot be penned by tier 8 if you facehug, they just bounce of cause of angle, so they dont shoot there!
they shoot the freaking butter turret

ow btw sry to shit on your performance but testserver games dont count for anything, most high tier tankers have not played many high tiers yet, meaning you can get a stupid 11K dam received
on the live server this stunt is only possible vs just stupid players who keep bouncing, cause as i said if you shoot back(5,5K dam) you show your turret and it has no armor, not even for tier 9, so definitly not for tier 10.

shapeshifter #72 Posted 01 September 2013 - 04:48 AM

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Not to mention in the E-50 you can't hide your LFP as well as you can atm in 8.7

As they nerfed the Gun depress to -5 frontally.

Panocek #73 Posted 01 September 2013 - 09:00 AM

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View PostTobiaz1991, on 01 September 2013 - 03:39 AM, said:

apparently you dont get the point? the turret has been nerfed into oblivion, and the lower plate cannot be penned by tier 8 if you facehug, they just bounce of cause of angle, so they dont shoot there!
they shoot the freaking butter turret

ow btw sry to shit on your performance but testserver games dont count for anything, most high tier tankers have not played many high tiers yet, meaning you can get a stupid 11K dam received
on the live server this stunt is only possible vs just stupid players who keep bouncing, cause as i said if you shoot back(5,5K dam) you show your turret and it has no armor, not even for tier 9, so definitly not for tier 10.

Umm. Slightly smaller gun mantle (which was unreliable anyway) = nerf to oblivion?
Second - E-50(M) tanks NEVER were facehugging ones - if you do it regularly, no wonder you suck with it. Turret is indeed weak, if you angle it (sic) or give clear shot by standing still.

And if glacis can withstand T10 guns without gold ammo, it will do so in live server - gun penetration have little common with driver derpness.

Whine as much as you like, I liked old E-50M and will enjoy new one too.

Ew_ #74 Posted 01 September 2013 - 09:10 PM

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View PostPanocek, on 01 September 2013 - 09:00 AM, said:

Umm. Slightly smaller gun mantle (which was unreliable anyway) = nerf to oblivion?
Whine as much as you like, I liked old E-50M and will enjoy new one too.
I take it you never played immidiately after the testserver came up? around the time skilled players test the new tanks before the swarm of noobs come. only Once an enemy tank shot my upper plate, but it was a test from different angles how he could pen it with his 121. In all combat situations None shot the upper plate, they just fired randomly at the turret since the new gun mauntlet lets through shots at the edges of it. The area exposed on the turret is larger than the visual one. The gun mauntlet has a smaller hitbox and zero armor behind it.

You dont even need to aim carefully to hit it. Oh and a tip, you dont even need so shoot around it, just shoot in the center of the gun mauntlet, if you have more than 240mm penetration and AP/APCR you should shoot straight through the mauntlet.

joyuesp #75 Posted 01 September 2013 - 09:50 PM

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View PostEw_, on 23 August 2013 - 11:14 AM, said:

I gets 150mm upper plate
But the lower plate is nerfed to 100mm,now ask yourselves, where do you get shot the most when not sidescraping? Ofc, the lower plate. The "buff" is completely irrelevant and the uniform front is now a huge weakspot, apart from:
The turret is also upscaled and the weakspots on it much much easier to hit, commanders cupola, area around gun mauntlet, everything upscaled due to smaller gun mauntlet.
most noobs usually shoot the upper glacis, for me it will be better for randoms.

Hummus #76 Posted 02 September 2013 - 10:21 AM

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View Postjoyuesp, on 01 September 2013 - 09:50 PM, said:

most noobs usually shoot the upper glacis, for me it will be better for randoms.
It is not the noobs i am worried about. Noobs you can just out-skill anyway ..... I needed that armor versus the skilled drivers.

Tobiaz1991 #77 Posted 02 September 2013 - 11:33 AM

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View PostPanocek, on 01 September 2013 - 09:00 AM, said:

Umm. Slightly smaller gun mantle (which was unreliable anyway) = nerf to oblivion?
Second - E-50(M) tanks NEVER were facehugging ones - if you do it regularly, no wonder you suck with it. Turret is indeed weak, if you angle it (sic) or give clear shot by standing still.

And if glacis can withstand T10 guns without gold ammo, it will do so in live server - gun penetration have little common with driver derpness.

Whine as much as you like, I liked old E-50M and will enjoy new one too.

no wonder i suck? haha you didnt check my stats did you?
in E-50 (which is basicly the same as E-50m) 63% winratio in 350ish games, E-50m only 49% winratio in 66 games, cause yeah still getting use to it
so tell me how that is sucking in a tank. but regardless of that, gun mantlet is nerf into oblivion, just play a game on testserver, or do some testing
the mantlet use to bounce any shot that wasnt tier 10 td or 270 pen or above AP. now its like you dont even have turret armor.

And please tell me how you withstand tier 10 shells on your glacis? upper glacis with angle, no problem,
but with some good angling they already did it to begin with, especially at long ranges

but lower glacis? how on earth are you making tier 10's bounce on your lower plate of 100mm?
cause there is no way they bounce the lower plate shooting at ranges of about 200-300m
maybe you are facehugging which makes the lower plate an autobounce zone regardless of 100 or 120mm armor

just remember how much difference it makes a 200 pen gun or a 220 pen gun on the E-50, it seems like a small difference but it matters so much, same with the lower plate




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