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jordan12321 #1 Posted 06 October 2013 - 10:19 AM

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How will war gaming up their game against war thunder with their upcoming release of ground units? War thunder has shown footage of the new ground units they they look really good.
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Edited by IPaul72, 06 October 2013 - 03:59 PM.


Ding760 #2 Posted 06 October 2013 - 10:30 AM

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Considering there's nothing but footage so far, it's not much to go by.

I think it's better to wait until they come out and then judge. Likewise WG can respond when they see it first hand.

8Knight_Commander_Pask #3 Posted 06 October 2013 - 10:34 AM

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Franky, I do not see this significant graphic improvement over WoT.
Plus, all I care is tanks, and WoT has a much bigger selection.

Anyway, competition is always welcome, I am sure WG will do it's best to keep its customer base.
At least the non-whiney one.

dyingsanity19 #4 Posted 06 October 2013 - 10:38 AM

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Indeed. I bet WG will loose a great deal of players...because a lot had enough of the trollings.

donk81 #5 Posted 06 October 2013 - 10:40 AM

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The initial effects look nice but I have no interest in combined arms & being potentially nuked by artillery AND bombers! I wish WG themselves would get rid of artillery altogether.

8Knight_Commander_Pask #6 Posted 06 October 2013 - 10:52 AM

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Shiny graphic alone will hopefully bleed a good deal weekend warriors/tomatoes/trolls to Warthunder.
Along with "Pay to Win"...that is really going to draw them like flies over a corpse.

Edited by 8Knight_Commander_Pask, 06 October 2013 - 10:53 AM.


pun_xD #7 Posted 06 October 2013 - 12:03 PM

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i saw the gameplay, and so far I'm not impressed. you dont need to hit weakspots, a thing i like in wot, cause noobs will bounce. but in WT you just try to hit the tank and wish for luck to penetrate. you dont even have a gunsight. everything is 3rd person.
the graphics are nice, but thats about it for me

Renegade61 #8 Posted 06 October 2013 - 12:10 PM

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The warthunder "unicum" platoon flyers must be drooling in anticpation of the enormous amount of "seal clubbing" xp they're about to reap up....i'll be staying with WoT tyvm! lol.

Nekomancer #9 Posted 06 October 2013 - 05:35 PM

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View Post_PUNISH3R_, on 06 October 2013 - 12:03 PM, said:

i saw the gameplay, and so far I'm not impressed. you dont need to hit weakspots, a thing i like in wot, cause noobs will bounce. but in WT you just try to hit the tank and wish for luck to penetrate. you dont even have a gunsight. everything is 3rd person.the graphics are nice, but thats about it for me
Well, that was the arcade mode they have shown. Historical and Full Realistic battles will be quite different, like with their planes.

GankampfWagen #10 Posted 07 October 2013 - 10:29 AM

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View Post8Knight_Commander_Pask, on 06 October 2013 - 10:34 AM, said:

Franky, I do not see this significant graphic improvement over WoT.
You don't?
Posted ImagePosted Image

View Postdonk81, on 06 October 2013 - 10:40 AM, said:

The initial effects look nice but I have no interest in combined arms & being potentially nuked by artillery AND bombers! I wish WG themselves would get rid of artillery altogether.
There will be tank-only mode.Artillery was given a low cooldown because players got 6 min of gameplay average in igromir.They said that only scout tanks will have it in the finished game (giving scouts an extra role as breakers of camper groups).Also,you can take out the A.I artillery and deny the whole enemy team its use.

View Post8Knight_Commander_Pask, on 06 October 2013 - 10:52 AM, said:

Along with "Pay to Win"...that is really going to draw them like flies over a corpse.
There's nothing as blatantly P2WIN as Gold Ammo in War thunder.With gold ammo,you have to either buy it outright or sacrifice all your income to it and then buy gold just to get new tanks.

View Post_PUNISH3R_, on 06 October 2013 - 12:03 PM, said:

i saw the gameplay, and so far I'm not impressed. you dont need to hit weakspots, a thing i like in wot, cause noobs will bounce. but in WT you just try to hit the tank and wish for luck to penetrate. you dont even have a gunsight. everything is 3rd person.
the graphics are nice, but thats about it for me
Where do you get this?Tanks have weakspots there just as well.I saw a KV bouncing 6-7 shots in a row with the message "you did no damage" in russian.The big difference is that there are no health bars.You bounce or you do module/crew damage.One succesful penetration of the ammo rack will take out even the heaviest of tanks (as long as you actually manage to penetrate it).
Look at the second gif.That's an ammo rack hit on the PzIV.No health bars just BOOM.

Edited by GankampfWagen, 07 October 2013 - 10:55 AM.


TinyViking #11 Posted 07 October 2013 - 10:40 AM

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Posted Image

Time will tell I guess!

krazypenguin #12 Posted 07 October 2013 - 10:58 AM

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The bottom line is that competition is going to be good for players.  But right now...

Does WT have better graphics?  Looks like it, yes.  But then what did anyone expect?  It's a newer game with a newer engine, of course it has better graphics.  But that doesn't mean that it is a better game than WoT and it doesn't mean that WG cannot do something about their own game's engine and graphics.  I'd be amazed if WG weren't already looking at the next engine to run WoT on.

And how far is WT from being ready?  The video has few vehicles in (fair enough) and some significantly odd looking physics, e.g. a racing car KV-1 and a Stug that needs a Robot Wars self righting mechanism.  Yes, they released a video but it looks far from good to go.  Plus, the arcade mode they demonstrated looked very odd.  People seem to be raving because "OMG they don't have health bars!" like that's a good thing.  Well, you can turn those off in WoT if you want but given that the video of WT is arcade mode surely you want them?  Sure, in a historical battle mode I understand that you don't but in arcade mode I would have thought you would.

Then there's the whole thing about planes.  Will you be able to play tank only games?  Or will aircraft always be there?  Because the Gaijun CEO said something like "tanks will be protected" and in the video Jingles points out how difficult it is to spot tanks.  Only in the videos planes are clearly shown easily destroying tanks.  Wow, playing a tank in that game is going to be SO much fun...not.  Just like Battlefield Vietnam where you hop in a tank and an enemy chopper appears - back to the spawn point every time.

And what is it with that tanks calling in arty thing?  You hated arty in WoT?  Well look at the video - the guy gets a reticle appear on the ground where he wants arty and about 2 seconds later arty is falling all around where he was aiming.  That's far worse than WoT where the best you can do is ask friendly arty to fire at your spotted target, then he has to aim, maybe wait for a reload and even then might just miss completely, or the target might move.  No, in the WT video the guy just points to a spot, says the magic word, and arty is hitting immediately.

Oh yeah, one really important point to make - maybe THE most important thing to point out to everyone saying "WT will kill WoT, it's so much better" etc...and this is it:  Have a quick browse of these forums, then go to the WT forums.  Spot the difference.  Yeah, there isn't any.  You get EXACTLY the same whine threads about WT there as you do about WoT here.  Only there you also get a lot of ex-WoT bitterness that just tastes bad.

So, in summary, this is a very early video of the gameplay and there is much work to do, but it already looks nice.  On the other hand, WoT will certainly be taking a look at this and doing what they need to do to protect their cash cow.

All of which should result in a happy time for us players.

GankampfWagen #13 Posted 07 October 2013 - 12:13 PM

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View Postkrazypenguin, on 07 October 2013 - 10:58 AM, said:

The bottom line is that competition is going to be good for players.  But right now...

Does WT have better graphics?  Looks like it, yes.  But then what did anyone expect?  It's a newer game with a newer engine, of course it has better graphics.  But that doesn't mean that it is a better game than WoT and it doesn't mean that WG cannot do something about their own game's engine and graphics.  I'd be amazed if WG weren't already looking at the next engine to run WoT on.

And how far is WT from being ready?  The video has few vehicles in (fair enough) and some significantly odd looking physics, e.g. a racing car KV-1 and a Stug that needs a Robot Wars self righting mechanism.  Yes, they released a video but it looks far from good to go.  Plus, the arcade mode they demonstrated looked very odd.  People seem to be raving because "OMG they don't have health bars!" like that's a good thing.  Well, you can turn those off in WoT if you want but given that the video of WT is arcade mode surely you want them?  Sure, in a historical battle mode I understand that you don't but in arcade mode I would have thought you would.

Then there's the whole thing about planes.  Will you be able to play tank only games?  Or will aircraft always be there?  Because the Gaijun CEO said something like "tanks will be protected" and in the video Jingles points out how difficult it is to spot tanks.  Only in the videos planes are clearly shown easily destroying tanks.  Wow, playing a tank in that game is going to be SO much fun...not.  Just like Battlefield Vietnam where you hop in a tank and an enemy chopper appears - back to the spawn point every time.

And what is it with that tanks calling in arty thing?  You hated arty in WoT?  Well look at the video - the guy gets a reticle appear on the ground where he wants arty and about 2 seconds later arty is falling all around where he was aiming.  That's far worse than WoT where the best you can do is ask friendly arty to fire at your spotted target, then he has to aim, maybe wait for a reload and even then might just miss completely, or the target might move.  No, in the WT video the guy just points to a spot, says the magic word, and arty is hitting immediately.

Oh yeah, one really important point to make - maybe THE most important thing to point out to everyone saying "WT will kill WoT, it's so much better" etc...and this is it:  Have a quick browse of these forums, then go to the WT forums.  Spot the difference.  Yeah, there isn't any.  You get EXACTLY the same whine threads about WT there as you do about WoT here.  Only there you also get a lot of ex-WoT bitterness that just tastes bad.

So, in summary, this is a very early video of the gameplay and there is much work to do, but it already looks nice.  On the other hand, WoT will certainly be taking a look at this and doing what they need to do to protect their cash cow.

All of which should result in a happy time for us players.

A lot of your questions were answered in my post above.

1)The first release will be somewhere around Nov15 (PS4 release date).Only USSR/Germany will be available in the first patch (60 vehicles each) with US and the rest of the nations getting patched in after.

2)They themselves have said that physics need to be tweaked.There will be a closed beta "very soon" with an open beta some time after to iron the physics out.
Bear in mind that arcade mode is the "COD" mode for them.There's a big difference between arcade and Historical mode.For example a mig15 in historical mode climbs at 50m/s.in aracade it's boosted to (unhistorical) 65m/s.Also the flight models in arcade allow for more rudder circle turning that makes aiming easier.So this could explain the tanks' boosted performance.How much of it is design choice and how much is bugs in need of tweaks,remains to be seen.

3)"No health bars" means much more than turning the graphic off.It's the way the damage model.If someone takes your main gun out,you don't lose a "pool" of HP.Same thing for tracks.Your tank's hull integrity is remains just as strong.
On the flip side,even the mightiest heavy tank will go down in one shot if it gets ammo racked.

4)Artillery
They said they made it widely available because players at igromir got 6 minutes of average playtime and they wanted to give a chance to everyone to try it out.It was not meant to be available for all tanks,or with a short cooldown.Also,they said that the activation time was lowered so that new players can appreciate its effects.Not knowing that it takes 6-7 seconds for the arty strike to be delivered and missing all your shots would not give you an idea of what arti does in such a short time.
My guess is that artillery will be given to scout tanks (and the potential scout cars that have been hinted).This will give scouts a second role appart from the standard suicide walkabout.If they keep it limited then it will have to be used smartly to break up a big camper group.using it on a single tank will be a waste.
In mixed-mode battles,it's easy for the planes to kill the A.I. artillery,negating the use of it from the enemy.it will be another tactical choice you can make.

One more thing:Arty in WoT is a satellite laser beam of death that can be delivered from behind the front line.That's what makes it so annoying to me.A scout vehicle will have to stick its neck in the thick of battle and  stay alive long enough to deliver the coordinates.

5)There will be tank-only and plane-only gameplay as well as specific maps for each mode (tank-only,mixed,plane-only).They said this is 100% sure.What they're not sure however,is the way they will implement it.They said that they might do it through event mode or with a plain checkbox.

6)Will WT kill WoT?I don't think so.
Will WoT lose a lot of players because of it?Probably.

I too don't think that people channeling their bitterness has any bearing on anything and of course,any game's forums are filled with their quota of whiners and trolls.WT is no different.

Personally,I've played WoT on-and-off for some time.I consider it a good game but there are some game mechanics that I really don't like because they remind me of old RPG automation.Made up aiming times,invisibility cloaks,health bars.The most elegant game design is when the parts work without any arbitrary rules.

One example I really liked from what I saw in the WT tank video is how aiming time is dependent on the suspension.When the tank fired,the recoil made the suspension wobble and the target reticule jumps all over the place.Same thing when the tank breaks or accelerates.

This means that a fast-reloading light tank with a big gun will have to deal with a lot more wobble than a heavier one with a medium sized gun.The gameplay sorts itself by the foundation mechanics it has.

krazypenguin #14 Posted 07 October 2013 - 12:24 PM

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I guess the thrust of my point was supposed to this - lots of people seem to think that WT will be totally amazing, without flaws and almost like the answer to their prayers.  But it won't be.  It's just another game in the genre.  It will do some things better, some things worse, some the same and some completely differently.  It might be better overall or it might not - but it will be a long time before we find out the answer to that question and you can bet that WG will fight tooth and nail to protect their investment.  Will it take players?  Of course.  It's new and interesting and exciting.  But it will not be without flaws - hence their forums being full of the same whine threads that we have.

All the people saying they hate WoT and it's terrible and how amazing WT will be and that they are off are going to find out that the grass isn't greener on the other side - it's just a different shade.

radd666 #15 Posted 07 October 2013 - 12:33 PM

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So the more or less only thing people say about WT is that it has better graphics....Really all u see in a game? C'mon, there must be more factors which helps you decide. If it is only b'cos of graphics, damn it is funny.

Arkhell #16 Posted 07 October 2013 - 12:35 PM

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effects in WT with cooking off ammo etc are awesome though goda hand them that really looks like you are utterly destroying a tank. only time will tell though as long as i havn't played WT gf i will be withholding judgement.

GankampfWagen #17 Posted 07 October 2013 - 02:03 PM

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View Postkrazypenguin, on 07 October 2013 - 12:24 PM, said:

I guess the thrust of my point was supposed to this - lots of people seem to think that WT will be totally amazing, without flaws and almost like the answer to their prayers.  But it won't be.  It's just another game in the genre.  It will do some things better, some things worse, some the same and some completely differently.  It might be better overall or it might not - but it will be a long time before we find out the answer to that question and you can bet that WG will fight tooth and nail to protect their investment.  Will it take players?  Of course.  It's new and interesting and exciting.  But it will not be without flaws - hence their forums being full of the same whine threads that we have.

All the people saying they hate WoT and it's terrible and how amazing WT will be and that they are off are going to find out that the grass isn't greener on the other side - it's just a different shade.

There will always be people like that and they usually are the first to start whining when the game doesn't represent the perfect ideal they have built in their heads but that doesn't mean that the rest of us can't have a level discussion on two similar games.

I've had fun in WoT,but some RPG-ish things like aiming time and health bars annoyed me enough to not make it my main game of choice.

As for WT:ground forces,we'll see but it sure looks promising.




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