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french tanks are they coming?


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urkerjantje #1 Posted 17 March 2011 - 03:42 PM

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french tanks are they coming? <_<  :Smile-hiding:

french tanks mostley crap so when are the coming?

Feuerteufel #2 Posted 17 March 2011 - 04:32 PM

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they weren't crap.

They were just badly organised  :P

Best bet would be shortly after official release(maybe even with the release)



Mfg,

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WiliamDrake #3 Posted 17 March 2011 - 05:17 PM

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they will come in cuple months after release

wargaming is busy now)

theta0123 #4 Posted 17 March 2011 - 05:32 PM

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uhoh

do i smell rus/ger bias?

Waroch #5 Posted 17 March 2011 - 05:47 PM

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Posted Image

sniff? nooo, i just smell ignorance  :Smile-hiding:

Charcharo #6 Posted 17 March 2011 - 08:54 PM

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View Posturkerjantje, on 17 March 2011 - 03:42 PM, said:

french tanks are they coming? <_<  :Smile-hiding:

french tanks mostley crap so when are the coming?
Trust me...
go get a 38H and then tell me french tanks suck.
They will be awesome.
IRL they were superior to german tanks (which is funny... looks like the french can make a tank, but cant make a decent car) but had bad ergonomics and organising and were less than german tanks.

bReeTz #7 Posted 17 March 2011 - 09:00 PM

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View Posturkerjantje, on 17 March 2011 - 03:42 PM, said:

french tanks are they coming? <_<  :Smile-hiding:

french tanks mostley crap so when are the coming?

Somua was one of the best tanks at that time, germans with their pz2/pz1 was far behind french tank designs. Problem was in tactics and the use of tanks, rather than in tanks themselves..

theta0123 #8 Posted 17 March 2011 - 09:12 PM

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View PostbReeTz, on 17 March 2011 - 09:00 PM, said:

Somua was one of the best tanks at that time, germans with their pz2/pz1 was far behind french tank designs. Problem was in tactics and the use of tanks, rather than in tanks themselves..
The tactics was a failure, but the biggest reason why the French army lost was because the French ground forces lacked AA guns, and the French airforce couldnt protect them, because they where fighting for there lives themself

Stukas could(in the later part of the battle) bomb french forces without any retialiation

But be dam sure, that when their was no luftwaffe, the French tanks kicked the germans there arses.Both the infantry and Tankers heavily feared French tanks

Gaulwa #9 Posted 17 March 2011 - 11:27 PM

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French tanks were more numerous than the German
French Tanks had a much better steel quality for their armor, making their tank tougher, and lighter than the German.

The overall quality of the tanks were higher than the germans.


However, we epically failed on these points:
Tanks were distributed in few numbers all across the army. (No armored divisions)
Tactics were ineffectiveness
Crews had low moral, and low, or no training to use the tanks.
No anti-air, and few air support
No radio inside the tanks (we had signal flags at first... and then morse radio.)
And we miserably failed to predict the German's deployment. Reinforcements always came one or two days late, after the germans were already passed, and convoy got picked one by one by the germans.

Tanks were good. The Generals & troops... not so much.

Waroch #10 Posted 18 March 2011 - 12:24 AM

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French tanks had radios, although only receivers for squad members. IIRC only small infantry tanks like the R35, H35 & FMC36 didn't have radios.

Also the low-morale thing is exaggerated; it was true for some reserve troops, like always, but globally the morale was rather pretty high. In particular among the tank crew.
Popular military songs of that time were songs like La Strasbourgeoise or On ne passe pas. kind of gives an idea of their feeling towards the boche  :Smile-bajan2:

It is true however that tactics and the general organisation of the french army were bad. But all that could have been overcome imho.
What really made the difference was the air superiority of the Luftwaffe : continuous raids of Stukas, Do-17 and such completely disorganised the communication lines (orders, reinforcements, supply lines...), whereas observation planes like the famous Storch were guiding artillery support with impunity.
It was the first time in history that air suppremacy proved to be of vital importance.

Gaulwa #11 Posted 18 March 2011 - 07:09 AM

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yes, at some point the French used real radios inside the tanks, but they were of sub-par quality, and unusable due to the loud engine. They quickly reverted to morse radio for communication.
Every B1 were equiped with ER53 radio telegraphy set, which used Morse Code only.

Hammerbolt #12 Posted 18 March 2011 - 11:27 AM

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French tanks had superior armour and guns, german tanks had superior comms, 3-man turrets and proper tactics and training. And the PzIII/IV could be easily adapted and improved, unlike the french.

theta0123 #13 Posted 18 March 2011 - 01:00 PM

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View PostGaulois, on 18 March 2011 - 07:09 AM, said:

yes, at some point the French used real radios inside the tanks, but they were of sub-par quality, and unusable due to the loud engine. They quickly reverted to morse radio for communication.
Every B1 were equiped with ER53 radio telegraphy set, which used Morse Code only.
B1 crews where well trained though. The tank had saw long service before in the regular B1 and therefor crews where used to the tanks

Hammerbolt #14 Posted 18 March 2011 - 01:18 PM

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View Posttheta0123, on 18 March 2011 - 01:00 PM, said:

B1 crews where well trained though. The tank had saw long service before in the regular B1 and therefor crews where used to the tanks

Not really. Most units got their tanks after mid-1939, and many didn't start real training before October/November. Some units even had to wait till March 1940 before their tanks arrived and the training started.

theta0123 #15 Posted 18 March 2011 - 06:52 PM

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View Posthammerbolt, on 18 March 2011 - 01:18 PM, said:

Not really. Most units got their tanks after mid-1939, and many didn't start real training before October/November. Some units even had to wait till March 1940 before their tanks arrived and the training started.
overall there quality of training was much better then other units though

There where many engagements where the Char B1 dominated and outclassed entire german units. Not just by its armor alone, but by good crew coordination

squint_eyes #16 Posted 19 March 2011 - 12:51 PM

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View PostCharcharo, on 17 March 2011 - 08:54 PM, said:

Trust me...
go get a 38H and then tell me french tanks suck.

And you know it just after one tank? ;)

theta0123 #17 Posted 19 March 2011 - 01:03 PM

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View Postian666, on 19 March 2011 - 12:51 PM, said:

And you know it just after one tank? ;)
its ungraded ;)

this also goes for the SOMUA 35 and Char B1

Hammerbolt #18 Posted 19 March 2011 - 03:40 PM

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View Posttheta0123, on 18 March 2011 - 06:52 PM, said:


There where many engagements where the Char B1 dominated and outclassed entire german units. Not just by its armor alone, but by good crew coordination

Indeed, 1-v-1, the B1 and the S35 dominated, even with crews with poor training. It was in unit-scale fights (platoon and above) that the germans won the day, due to their advantages.

theta0123 #19 Posted 19 March 2011 - 10:08 PM

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Mostly it was thanks to the stukas of the luftwaffe though. The only proper weapons that could defeat the Somua and Char B1 where 88's, howitzers, stukas and improvisations

The latter is mostly costly to the ones carrying it out.

WiliamDrake #20 Posted 21 March 2011 - 01:36 PM

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ye in WWII french tanks weren't split in divisions that is why they were not effective at all




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