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french tanks are they coming?


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Von_Luger #101 Posted 06 May 2011 - 09:31 AM

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I'll be happy to see French tanks on the battlefield.I'll be even more happy if they include the brits,japs and italians.  :)

Kesselbrut #102 Posted 06 May 2011 - 09:52 AM

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I have reliable sources that state, the french tanks will coincidentially be released together with Duke Nukem Forever...

Hammerbolt #103 Posted 06 May 2011 - 09:54 AM

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View PostKesselbrut, on 06 May 2011 - 09:52 AM, said:

I have reliable sources that state, the french tanks will coincidentially be released together with Duke Nukem Forever...

I thought it was Diablo 3?...

Kesselbrut #104 Posted 06 May 2011 - 09:58 AM

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View Posthammerbolt, on 06 May 2011 - 09:54 AM, said:

I thought it was Diablo 3?...

Maybe I should ask him again, it could also be...

Botan #105 Posted 07 May 2011 - 08:13 PM

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View Posthammerbolt, on 04 May 2011 - 09:01 PM, said:

Japanese tanks were, at best, the equal of the Pz35. They "led the spearhead which conquered East Asia, destroying China" because those nations either had no tanks or had tankets, against which a 37mm and MGs was enough. Prof of how much they were behing the west is the fact that the M3 and M4 reined supreme in the Pacific.

No, not to bad.
The truth is that in Japan Air force and Naval force had bigger priority than tanks, which is obvious when you look at map. But in game we play with prototypes and "paper" tanks, and on this field Japan had some interesting design. On American forum is a very interesting topic with Japanese tank tree
Japanese Tank Tree
Don't forget about Japanese after war tanks ;)

BTW personally I'm waiting for Hungarian "panther"
TAS 44M It was a unfinished prototype from 1944 (destroyed in factory bombarding)

Seriously I don't want more USA/Germany/Soviet tanks, give me some char  :Smile-izmena:

ColdHeat #106 Posted 08 May 2011 - 11:07 PM

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I'm happy for seeing new fractions and tanks coming to the game but i cannot understand so far, why they are implementing the french tanks (yet) and how this is gonna work.

First of all, to first implement the Commonwealth with British/Canadian etc. tanks would have appeared more wisely to me since GB was a much more major "player" if you regard that they lasted till the end of the war and were a real victor. I'd be fine with french tanks afterwards but to implement France first appears awkward.

Secondly: I'm not aware about vichy or free france tank development after 40. While the british (or even the italians) had way more years to actually develop their tanks over the early war phase, the french never reached the mid war tank phase. Do they want to rely entirely on fictional 1940 blueprints or is the B1 becoming the new equivalent to a Maus? That would be even more unrealistic.

Waroch #107 Posted 08 May 2011 - 11:39 PM

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There are about 784 threads on WoT forums about this. I don't think it's worth having another 10 pages argument about the absence of english tanks here...

dagann #108 Posted 09 May 2011 - 12:03 AM

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View PostWaroch, on 08 May 2011 - 11:39 PM, said:

There are about 784 threads on WoT forums about this. I don't think it's worth having another 10 pages argument about the absence of english tanks here...
Yep, this has been talked over and over.


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First of all, to first implement the Commonwealth with British/Canadian etc. tanks would have appeared more wisely to me since GB was a much more major "player" if you regard that they lasted till the end of the war and were a real victor. I'd be fine with french tanks afterwards but to implement France first appears awkward.
Not all but a large part of the commonwealth tanks are US tanks, this is why i guess the have chosen France so they can offer a "more original" tanks tree.
French tanks are not so well-known whereas they deserve our interest.


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Secondly: I'm not aware about vichy or free france tank development after 40. While the british (or even the italians) had way more years to actually develop their tanks over the early war phase, the french never reached the mid war tank phase. Do they want to rely entirely on fictional 1940 blueprints or is the B1 becoming the new equivalent to a Maus? That would be even more unrealistic.
No they will not entirely rely on "fictional" tanks cause you will see the french tanks who fought vs the german ones in 1940.
Yes they will add french "tanks papers" who were only protypes or blueprints projects.
And what is the point ?
You are not objective cause at least 30% of the tanks in the game are prototypes which were never produced such as the Maus you talked about, or are "panzer papers" who never left the drawing board such as the german E series.
And they will add post-war french tanks so they join the post-war russian and us tanks already in the game.

Hammerbolt #109 Posted 09 May 2011 - 08:54 AM

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View PostColdHeat, on 08 May 2011 - 11:07 PM, said:

First of all, to first implement the Commonwealth with British/Canadian etc. tanks would have appeared more wisely to me since GB was a much more major "player" if you regard that they lasted till the end of the war and were a real victor. I'd be fine with french tanks afterwards but to implement France first appears awkward.

Actually, if you think about it, the UK tree will be a nightmare to develop in a balanced way, and simply because of one tiny problem: brit tank guns!

Betweem 1940 and 1944, the only cannons the brits had in their tanks were 40mm (2pdr) and (57mm) 6pdr. We've all seen this in the current premium tanks. Which means that, untill you can grind up to the Crownell/Comet, you'll have, say, Churchills regulary facing KVs and such... with nothing but a 57mm or, at best, a 75mm recovered from a Sherman.

Another problem are the lend-lease tanks. Either the devs create a separate tree for the brit versions of the Stuart-M3-Sherman, or they give them as premiums...

Gaulwa #110 Posted 09 May 2011 - 10:23 AM

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View Posturkerjantje, on 17 March 2011 - 03:42 PM, said:

french tanks are they coming? <_<  :Smile-hiding:

Back to the topic, the current plans is to revamp the trees over the course of summer, then add the American TD line, and afterwards the French line.

We are estimating the coming of the French tanks for September.

ColdHeat #111 Posted 09 May 2011 - 11:55 AM

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Sorry Gaulois, just want to reply on this since its a interesting discussion. I assume the topic question has been answered long ago since we can be sure that french tanks are coming.

I don't want to press this topic by hammering out arguments, if all has been said and done in felt 700 threads. Just remember that it already works for the US.

View Postdagann, on 09 May 2011 - 12:03 AM, said:

No they will not entirely rely on "fictional" tanks cause you will see the french tanks who fought vs the german ones in 1940.

Thats what i said.

View Postdagann, on 09 May 2011 - 12:03 AM, said:

Yes they will add french "tanks papers" who were only protypes or blueprints projects.
And what is the point ?
You are not objective cause at least 30% of the tanks in the game are prototypes which were never produced such as the Maus you talked about

Thats unfortunately true but i don't appreciate that. Most of the Panzer IV you´ll meet have the Panther turret and gun which is even more nonesense as to implement the Panzerkreuzer 1000 Ratte as a tier 3000 tank. Still theres a difference between paper tanks and actually produced and tested tanks like the Maus or the high tier american tanks, since you can actually rely on real data. I can barely accept the part that these prototypes already play but the sad fact is, that 70-80% of the french tank tree would possibly be fully blueprint like which feels too much. No need to discuss about this, since the french tanks are coming anyway. Just wanted to explain to you, what i said.

View Postdagann, on 09 May 2011 - 12:03 AM, said:

And they will add post-war french tanks so they join the post-war russian and us tanks already in the game.


Battling post war tank designs against actual war designs is a fictional as it can get since the post war gear was sometimes more, sometimes less heavily influenced by german weapon designs. Would a Panzer III look like a Panzer III as we know it, if germany would have won WW1? If this game takes itself to a fictional parallel universe, where the war continued over 1945, you could never know how the tank designs might really have looked like.

Waroch #112 Posted 09 May 2011 - 07:29 PM

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All right then, can you tell which tanks of the tree didn't have at least a prototype built? If you reach 80% of the tree, i pay the whole forum a round of champagne :rolleyes:

dagann #113 Posted 10 May 2011 - 02:43 PM

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View PostColdHeat, on 09 May 2011 - 11:55 AM, said:

Thats unfortunately true but i don't appreciate that. Most of the Panzer IV you´ll meet have the Panther turret and gun which is even more nonesense as to implement the Panzerkreuzer 1000 Ratte as a tier 3000 tank. Still theres a difference between paper tanks and actually produced and tested tanks like the Maus or the high tier american tanks, since you can actually rely on real data. I can barely accept the part that these prototypes already play but the sad fact is, that 70-80% of the french tank tree would possibly be fully blueprint like which feels too much. No need to discuss about this, since the french tanks are coming anyway. Just wanted to explain to you, what i said.

I was also very suprised to see the "panther turret style" on the PZ IV. But in my opinion, WOT is not an historical simulation, it's a "WHAT IF" game, dysplaying  a kind of uchronic ww2.



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Battling post war tank designs against actual war designs is a fictional as it can get since the post war gear was sometimes more, sometimes less heavily influenced by german weapon designs. Would a Panzer III look like a Panzer III as we know it, if germany would have won WW1? If this game takes itself to a fictional parallel universe, where the war continued over 1945, you could never know how the tank designs might really have looked like.
I was thinking to myself :
If the blitzkrieg had been stopped, the ww2 tanks design would habe been different.
France would have deployed better tanks built according to the modern doctrine tank (such as G1R), whereas the german would start working on a new tank with sloping armor (to face the sloping armour of the french tanks) much earlier than the Panther.

Quote

Back to the topic, the current plans is to revamp the trees over the course of summer, then add the American TD line, and afterwards the French line.

We are estimating the coming of the French tanks for September.
Can't wait form them.
I really hope it will be september.
But i would think the french tree will be released for the very end of the year... <_<

shadowcreaper #114 Posted 10 May 2011 - 08:07 PM

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View PostGaulois, on 17 March 2011 - 11:27 PM, said:

French tanks were more numerous than the GermanFrench Tanks had a much better steel quality for their armor, making their tank tougher, and lighter than the German.The overall quality of the tanks were higher than the germans.However, we epically failed on these points:Tanks were distributed in few numbers all across the army. (No armored divisions)Tactics were ineffectivenessCrews had low moral, and low, or no training to use the tanks.No anti-air, and few air supportNo radio inside the tanks (we had signal flags at first... and then morse radio.)And we miserably failed to predict the German's deployment. Reinforcements always came one or two days late, after the germans were already passed, and convoy got picked one by one by the germans.Tanks were good. The Generals & troops... not so much.

tbh one of the major issues wasnt the troops so trying to claim french had bad troops is rather a insult to the many who died trying to protect the british rear-guard.

One of the major issues was actually french tanks being too heavy due to their stupidly over siezed guns stuck onto a tank that wasnt suited to the fast modern WW2 tank warfare doctrine that germans used.

The germans used lighting attacks ie blitzkrieg to completely overwhelm the french armour before they could sort out anysort of proper defence.

In some areas it proved very much french armour if dug in well could defeat german tanks  but the germans just byepassed these "hard defence" areas and left the air force to deal with them at a later stage.

French tanks in many ways failed due to them being built around a defencive warfare doctrine while the germans blitzkrieg doctrine used what they had to much greater affect.

In many ways the loss of the french tanks helped a lot for the germans with all the captured gear they left behind, this was one of the many resons why the british fleet sank the french fleet during the brake of WW2 for this very reson.

french tanks in this game is in all ways just a gimic as there no way france could maintain a proper armoured doctrine during the war,

In many ways Poland or Italy have if not more reson to be included in the game compared to french....

then again british armour really should be included first and quite suprised it isnt given we invented the tank and first used it......

SpaceSoviet #115 Posted 11 May 2011 - 06:49 PM

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In many ways Poland or Italy have if not more reson to be included in the game compared to french....

I don't think so...

Poland used a few Vickers Tanks in september 1939, others british tanks along the Free Polish units, Russian tanks
on eastern front with the Polish Liberation Army. Then after the War, the infamous overpowered T55.

Italy should be included, they had a propoer line of tanks, even if they weren't the best of all they made their part into the war
but i don't see why before the french.

British tanks are planned, Cruisers, Cromwells and others will have their time.

Hammerbolt #116 Posted 11 May 2011 - 11:01 PM

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View PostSpaceSoviet, on 11 May 2011 - 06:49 PM, said:

I don't think so...

Poland used a few Vickers Tanks in september 1939, others british tanks along the Free Polish units, Russian tanks
on eastern front with the Polish Liberation Army. Then after the War, the infamous overpowered T55.

Actually the poles did have a home-grown model, the 7TP, which was as good as the Pz35/38. And it's gun could even hurt PzIV. But they only had a handfull of them...

SpaceSoviet #117 Posted 11 May 2011 - 11:26 PM

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Actually the poles did have a home-grown model, the 7TP

mmm yes i rember him in Blitzkrieg (RTS game). Should appear in the european tree then. :Smile_honoring:

Shireknight #118 Posted 12 May 2011 - 03:28 AM

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View Posttheta0123, on 17 March 2011 - 05:32 PM, said:

uhoh

do i smell rus/ger bias?

ROFL, all the different tank nations players complain each others tanks are too buffed however hatred of the French is universal so what chance do they have? :D

patton4ever #119 Posted 13 May 2011 - 09:55 AM

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During the invasion of France there were about "modern" 4 000 tanks (France 3 700 + UK 310 + Belgium 100) vs 2 500 tanks (mainly Germany + some italian).
I am excluding old tanks such as Renault FT-17 and Char 2C.
French tanks are mainly light tanks Renault R35, R39, Hotchkiss H35, H39 and a few heavies SOMUA S35 and B1/B1 bis.

Loss after battle:

Allies : 1 875 Germany :  1 158 (I do not have any figure for Italy)

Interesting data, number of heavy tanks captured : 300 Somua S-35 (total production of 430) and 160 B1bis.

If those tanks were to be on WOT those are the main caracteristics:

Heavy:

B1

Personnel : 4
Weight: 31,5 tons
Armor : 40mm/60mm/55mm
Canons (2) :47 mm and 75mm
Motor : 307ch
Speed (on road): 35km/h

Somua S-35

Can we say it is a medium tank ?

Personnel : 3
Weight: 19,5 tons
Armor : 55mm
Canon :47 mm
Motor : 190ch
Speed (on road): 40km/h

Light:

Renault R35

Personnel : 2
Weight: 10 tons (empty)
Armor : 40mm
Canon :37 mm
Motor : 85ch
Speed (on road): 20km/h


I know this can be an outrage but how about japanese tanks ? (perhaps in a pacific version of the game)

Hammerbolt #120 Posted 13 May 2011 - 10:04 AM

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View Postpatton4ever, on 13 May 2011 - 09:55 AM, said:

Somua S-35

Can we say it is a medium tank ?

Guess so, but the french didn't classify their tanks like that. The Somua was a "cavalry" tank, designed to operate independently from the infantry in "fast" attacks.

View Postpatton4ever, on 13 May 2011 - 09:55 AM, said:

I know this can be an outrage but how about japanese tanks ? (perhaps in a pacific version of the game)

Seriously? Have you seen japanese tanks? I'd rather have italians...




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