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french tanks are they coming?


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Saintslayer #41 Posted 13 April 2011 - 10:39 AM

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View PostLuk4as, on 21 March 2011 - 01:36 PM, said:

ye in WWII french tanks weren't split in divisions that is why they were not effective at all

Even if they were organized in Armored divisions they wouldnt be effective without support
of Battle planes,aa guns or arti.


The french people like to lose and thats that.
This is your first and final warning with regards to nation bashing. A warning has been added to your disciplinary history. Any future infracture WILL lead to a ban
Eide

Edited by Eide, 14 April 2011 - 08:10 PM.


yams42000 #42 Posted 13 April 2011 - 10:47 AM

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The french people like to lose and thats that.
[/quote]

Are you serious? :blink:

Saintslayer #43 Posted 13 April 2011 - 10:49 AM

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First of all learn how to quote and yes im serious

3 day RO

Edited by Eide, 14 April 2011 - 08:11 PM.


Waroch #44 Posted 13 April 2011 - 11:28 AM

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Sounds like it's a learning day today. Yams42000 must learn how to quote.... Saintslayer must learn history.... :Smile_harp:

Eide #45 Posted 13 April 2011 - 11:13 PM

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The French tree is currently partially in the design stage of the tanks, and partially in the alpha testing stage. As rightly said here before, currently the primary focus is on the US TD line, German E series and the release of Clan Wars. I have no data on exact timelines, but I think Q3 is a decent guesstimate for when we may be able to see French tanks for the first time.

Iwanuschka #46 Posted 14 April 2011 - 04:23 PM

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Would be really interesting because how many tanks you know from our french neighbors (and beloved archenemy ;))? Sumoa, B1, the now used german adaption and further?

finalsacre #47 Posted 14 April 2011 - 04:28 PM

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Quote

German E series

I believed E series would come after first release of French tree ?

@Iwanuschka

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Iwanuschka #48 Posted 14 April 2011 - 04:56 PM

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Oh yeah, thanks. I realised this picture after looking in the general discussion. :) But indeed, never heard from the most of them.

GROMx87 #49 Posted 15 April 2011 - 01:26 AM

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IM from Poland and i want to tell you something about France in ww2, they are cowards, they should help us when germans atacked us from west and russia (who betrayed us) from the east but they didnt. Do you know what they realy DID in ww2 ? They were throwing propaganda papers from planes...thats all...pathetic isnt it?
French and English people talking such a bull***ts about honor ,fight etc in ww2 and they forgot that was POLISH SOLDIERS who fighted for them.
We destroyed bigest number of  messershmidts in the battle for brittain, more then britss itself, WE Broken the enigma system. We never surrended , figting from underground ,making ressistance groups or even COMMANDO like "cichociemni" (quietly-dark)etc etc etc...check on youtube song "SABBATON 40-1".

BTW   -i know my english laungage is not perfect but ive leared it from TV and games not school like you.
BTW 2 -your teachers of history must be some kind of patriotic idiots or they just dont know the history.

MrBiscotte #50 Posted 15 April 2011 - 03:18 AM

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View PostGROMx87, on 15 April 2011 - 01:26 AM, said:

IM from Poland and i want to tell you something about France in ww2, they are cowards, they should help us when germans atacked us from west and russia (who betrayed us) from the east but they didnt.

I'm sure you didn't learn english and history from school, 'cause obviously you miss a lot of history class...
for your information France declared war against Germany the day they started the invasion of Poland, I'd admit that we were not very offensive but we had a defensive army and a group of morons as officers.

And don't be pretentious like saying Poland won the war by herself, the ww2 victory is a victory of an alliance.

Waroch #51 Posted 15 April 2011 - 08:27 AM

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@GROMx87 : as a general rule, I don't advise anyone to learn history only at school. It's not history you learn there, it's at the most a one-sided biased version of history you'll get...

Poland very brave, etc... Yes we know that. And now we also know the truth about the respective strength of the different armies at that time, their organisation, their location, so we can wonder "what if the allies had pursued their offensive further?" (in case you didn't know, they did attack Germany to try and relieve Poland from German pressure). I personnaly think the superiority of French artillery and armor at that time might have been enough to neutralise Germany, what could have happened later on with USSR is another story...

To give you a short insight of the situation of France at this time, France needed months to mobilise, train and equip decently the soldiers. That was, by the way, the main purpose of the Maginot line : give a few months respite to allow a complete mobilisation. The other thing you have to know is there was a HUGE communist threat from the inside; communists were seen as an even greater menace than fascism or nazism at that time. And everybody remembered what happened to Russian empire in 1914 : a very daring move they made, while the Russian army wasn't prepared for war. You know the price the czar paid for that :(
A large scale assault in Germany would have been a daring move as well, and nobody wanted to risk a civil war with the axis-sided communists as a result, like happened in Spain

FYI

Hammerbolt #52 Posted 15 April 2011 - 09:24 AM

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View PostGROMx87, on 15 April 2011 - 01:26 AM, said:

French and English people talking such a bull***ts about honor ,fight etc in ww2 and they forgot that was POLISH SOLDIERS who fighted for them.

I've always had the greastest respect towards Poland. It sufered horribly in WWII (highest % of civilian population killed), and those that made it to France and then the UK fought admirably for the rest of the war.

But the fact is, a French/UK assault on Germany in 39 was simply impossible. Neither country was ready for this, not even for a proper defensive war, let alone an attack. And no one, in their wildest dreams, imagined such a stuning attack by the germans. Everyone was expecting some kind of 1914-repeat, with some small extra speed from the armor.

JYzer #53 Posted 15 April 2011 - 09:38 AM

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View PostWaroch, on 15 April 2011 - 08:27 AM, said:

@GROMx87 : as a general rule, I don't advise anyone to learn history only at school. It's not history you learn there, it's at the most a one-sided biased version of history you'll get...

Poland very brave, etc... Yes we know that. And now we also know the truth about the respective strength of the different armies at that time, their organisation, their location, so we can wonder "what if the allies had pursued their offensive further?" (in case you didn't know, they did attack Germany to try and relieve Poland from German pressure). I personnaly think the superiority of French artillery and armor at that time might have been enough to neutralise Germany, what could have happen later on with USSR is another story...

To give you a short insight of the situation of France at this time, France needed months to mobilise, train and equip decently the soldiers. That was, by the way, the main purpose of the Maginot line : give a few months respite to allow a complete mobilisation. The other thing you have to know is there was a HUGE communist threat from the inside; communists were seen as an even greater menace than fascism of nazism at that time. And everybody remembered what happened to Russian empire in 1914 : a very daring move they made, while the Russian army wasn't prepared for war. You know the price the czar paid for that :(
A large scale assault in Germany would have been a daring move as well, and nobody wanted to risk a civil war with the axis-sided communists as a result, like happened in Spain

FYI

From the look of your post, I'd say that not only would you advise not to learn history at school, you advise not to learn it at all. Huge communist threat from the inside; what is this some sort of half-baked French version of the Dolchstoßlegende? At most you can accuse them of appeasement for arguing, before the invasion of the west, that a peace deal with Germany could prove acceptable. See also; several other sections of French and British politics. And what did the communists do after the occupation? Well they sided with the axis so much that they formed a massive part of the French resistance, as they did in other occupied nations.

"And everybody remembered what happened to Russian empire in 1914" They didn't do particularly well on the Eastern Front, since they were a big, slow, strange empire. ...were you trying to tie this to another HUGE communist threat? In 1914?  <_<

And a civil war with the axis-sided communists. Like in Spain. You know, Spain. Where the Luftwaffe went on an extended divebombing holiday, while I guess the communists were kind enough to paint nice big targets on their own heads. And get blown into a thousand pieces by them. Very polite to tourists these commies.

Quote

But the fact is, a French/UK assault on Germany in 39 was simply impossible. Neither country was ready for this, not even for a proper defensive war, let alone an attack. And no one, in their wildest dreams, imagined such a stuning attack by the germans. Everyone was expecting some kind of 1914-repeat, with some small extra speed from the armor.
Pretty much this. The French/British were pretty much prepared to fight, it's just that they were largely prepared to re-fight the last war.  :unsure:

Waroch #54 Posted 15 April 2011 - 01:29 PM

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View PostJYzer, on 15 April 2011 - 09:38 AM, said:

From the look of your post, I'd say that not only would you advise not to learn history at school, you advise not to learn it at all. Huge communist threat from the inside; what is this some sort of half-baked French version of the Dolchstoßlegende? At most you can accuse them of appeasement for arguing, before the invasion of the west, that a peace deal with Germany could prove acceptable. See also; several other sections of French and British politics. And what did the communists do after the occupation? Well they sided with the axis so much that they formed a massive part of the French resistance, as they did in other occupied nations.

History is written by the victor. Remember? Communists were integrated in post-war politics by de Gaulle, because he couldn't do otherwise.
BUT when you dig around a bit, look at facts and testimonies of that time, you realise the "heroic resistant communist" picture really wasn't so bright. In case you didn't know, commies basically followed instructions from Moscow. They were collaborating until june 1941, then began picking up german targets and not only murdering anti-communists. You can accuse them of treason, of sabotaging French industry and in particular weapons assemblies, of murdering all those who could possibly stand up against their revolution - that is to say potentially most early-days resistants.

Obviously, you're not being taught this at school, that's why i advise to go further. As a French myself I'm privileged cause i can have information first-hand from direct witnesses.
For example, one of my great-grand uncles was assassinated by communist "maquisards" because he was a well known local personality, not too friendly with communism. And he actually was in the resistance (the real one). And there were many other cases in the same region of people shot down for their political conviction. But decisive actions against the Germans? Not a single one.

Bloody assassins they were, and a plague for the society.


Quote

"And everybody remembered what happened to Russian empire in 1914" They didn't do particularly well on the Eastern Front, since they were a big, slow, strange empire. ...were you trying to tie this to another HUGE communist threat? In 1914?  <_<
What i said is that a daring assault which results in a disaster exacerbates national divisions. Is it that hard to understand?

Quote

And a civil war with the axis-sided communists. Like in Spain. You know, Spain. Where the Luftwaffe went on an extended divebombing holiday, while I guess the communists were kind enough to paint nice big targets on their own heads. And get blown into a thousand pieces by them. Very polite to tourists these commies.
Spain where the commies started a civil war in the 1930s, yes.

Hammerbolt #55 Posted 15 April 2011 - 02:23 PM

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Wall of text incoming. Sorry but...

View PostWaroch, on 15 April 2011 - 01:29 PM, said:

BUT when you dig around a bit, look at facts and testimonies of that time, you realise the "heroic resistant communist" picture really wasn't so bright. In case you didn't know, commies basically followed instructions from Moscow. They were collaborating until june 1941, then began picking up german targets and not only murdering anti-communists.

Sad but true. There are documented cases of french comunist-afiliated workers actively sabotaging tank and aircraft production in 1940, at orders from Moskow.

But things (ie history and events) have to be put in context. We have to remember that these were the days of "hard-core" proletarian comunism, the years in which the propaganda stated (amongst other things) that the only free and equal country was the USSR. There was no such thing as moderate comunists, they saw themselves as fighters vs oppression: if you weren't one, and following the instructions of the only true people's government in the world (ie, the USSR) then you were abusing the workers and the people, and deserved what you got. Without internet, TV or any wide spread long range comunications, no one knew what really happened in the USSR: the progroms, the starvations, Gulags, fake trials, forced colectivisation, etc. The extent of the Gulag system wasn't found untill 1973, with the release in the west of the book "The Gulag Archipelago"

All the (rest of the world) workers knew was: Comunism is equality, while here I work 10-12 hours for lousy pay. WTF IS THAT?  :angry:  and France, a traditional hotbed of revolutionary theories, was particulary vulnerable to this. Hence, those acts. And the reason for the comunist resistance (which, btw, was, for quite some time, the only well organised one..) acepting (almost) only orders from Moscow...

The whole "brits and french appease germany" thing? Again, check context. The french and brits were still recovering, economicaly and socially, from WWI. The massive slaughter of that war (far better known in these countries that in Germany) had created a nation-wide trauma. Remember the whole "war to end all wars" thing. In France, there was almost no country family who didn't have at least one member enlisted. The pyschological wounds, nation-wide, were huge. "Never again" was repeated everywhere. And the 1930s started with such "nice" war theories as "gas bomb-equiped super bombers will always reach their targets and wipe out whole cities omg".

Germany suffered from this far less, due to a combination of 3 many points (there are others, but I won't go into them...):
-the fact that the german governement managed to hide (to a far greater extent that the french/UK) the true situation at the front;
-the feeling of betrayal after the surrender, because many people (including troops) were ignorant of the situation and felt that all their sacrifices were thrown away;
-the idea that "we are poor now because of the treaty of Versailles", which btw, had quite some truth in it...

So, you have one side doing whatever it can to stop another, predictably worse, mass slaughter, and another side gunning for revenge (yes, it's a simplistic way of putting it... but not much, imho)

View PostWaroch, on 15 April 2011 - 01:29 PM, said:

Spain where the commies started a civil war in the 1930s, yes.

Now... see? This is bad history. This is plain wrong. Even 5mn in wikipedia will tell you this.  Spanish Civil War

The war was started by a general (Franco) backed by conservatives, against a freely elected socialist governement. He was then fully supported by the facist/nazi parties of Europe. Unlike Franco, the governement received no real support from outside... except from the USSR (who, ofc, had it's own reasons...), who sent weapons (including tanks and planes) and money, but no troops. It was left to what few trops the government had, hastily drafted militia, and the volunteer international brigades... who were poorly trained and equiped. The comunist brigades simply became better known due to propaganda, but not all volunteers were comunist. In fact, most "pure" comunist units were a disaster: they were not led, they were ruled by comitee who had to agree unanimously on everything, and often refused orders  :blink:

Things in history are never clear cut and black and white.... never trust just one source. Ever. Which is why I never read autobiographies...

Waroch #56 Posted 15 April 2011 - 03:33 PM

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View Posthammerbolt, on 15 April 2011 - 02:23 PM, said:



The war was started by a general (Franco) backed by conservatives, against a freely elected socialist governement
. He was then fully supported by the facist/nazi parties of Europe. Unlike Franco, the governement received no real support from outside... except from the USSR (who, ofc, had it's own reasons...), who sent weapons (including tanks and planes) and money, but no troops. It was left to what few trops the government had, hastily drafted militia, and the volunteer international brigades... who were poorly trained and equiped. The comunist brigades simply became better known due to propaganda, but not all volunteers were comunist. In fact, most "pure" comunist units were a disaster: they were not led, they were ruled by comitee who had to agree unanimously on everything, and often refused orders  :blink:


Technically yes. But Franco's coup was permitted by the volatile situation in Spain, near chaos. The weak government couldn't do anything to stop terrorism everywhere in the country. Militia were formed to defend villages, especially churches and monasteries which were regularly pillaged, monks and priests killed etc... The bourgeoisie too was constantly threatened. That's why I consider communists were responsible of this war, because Franco would never have made it to the power if he hadn't been supported by quite a large part of the population.


Quote

Things in history are never clear cut and black and white.... never  trust just one source. Ever. Which is why I never read  autobiographies...

same here ^_^

Hammerbolt #57 Posted 15 April 2011 - 03:42 PM

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View PostWaroch, on 15 April 2011 - 03:33 PM, said:

Technically yes. But Franco's coup was permitted by the volatile situation in Spain, near chaos. The weak government couldn't do anything to stop terrorism everywhere in the country. Militia were formed to defend villages, especially churches and monasteries which were regularly pillaged, monks and priests killed etc... The bourgeoisie too was constantly threatened. That's why I consider communists were responsible of this war, because Franco would never have made it to the power if he hadn't been supported by quite a large part of the population.

No. Franco was supported by the old nobility & land owner classes and the catholic church, who kept the country in a near feudal state. The common folk in the countryside, as well as most of the factory workers, were kept in abject poverty and near-servitude (my own country, Portugal, was like this at the time, and for some time after...). The killing of priests etc, was (saddly) the natural response to centuries of being robbed and beaten by the catholic church, who's abuses in Spain are the stuff of legend. The same happened in Russia during the 1917 revolution, and for the same reasons. ofc people began to unite to protect themselves, but this was more to stop the excesses that to actually protect the church. Franco & Co used all the confusion to start their coup.

Waroch #58 Posted 15 April 2011 - 04:23 PM

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@hammerbolt : just to make things perfectly clear, I would like to precise I don't take the defense of Franco or anything ;)

what I say is that he used the messy situation that was already there. The country was basically already in a state of civil war, and he wasn't responsible for this.

Hammerbolt #59 Posted 15 April 2011 - 04:28 PM

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View PostWaroch, on 15 April 2011 - 04:23 PM, said:

@hammerbolt : just to make things perfectly clear, I would like to precise I don't take the defense of Franco or anything ;)

Np, mate  :Smile_great:

View PostWaroch, on 15 April 2011 - 04:23 PM, said:

what I say is that he used the messy situation that was already there. The country was basically already in a state of civil war, and he wasn't responsible for this.

No, but he and his buddies help  <_<

I guess, being Portuguese, I'm specially bitter about this (second only to any spaniard around here, ofc...). We had many of the problems that Spain had (apart from the chaos). Our own dictatorship at the time not only sent troops to help him, but also provided political and logistical support. And then the 2 fraking dictators supported each other  :angry:  :angry:

Waroch #60 Posted 15 April 2011 - 04:57 PM

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View Posthammerbolt, on 15 April 2011 - 04:28 PM, said:



No, but he and his buddies help  <_<

I guess, being Portuguese, I'm specially bitter about this (second only to any spaniard around here, ofc...). We had many of the problems that Spain had (apart from the chaos). Our own dictatorship at the time not only sent troops to help him, but also provided political and logistical support. And then the 2 fraking dictators supported each other  :angry:  :angry:

that's for sure :/




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