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Training crew to 100% for gold...what?


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SteT #1 Posted 18 March 2011 - 12:36 AM

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Ok,

only really noticed this today, but why on earth does it cost 200 gold to train crew too 100% no matter what their experience was on another tank? Seems a little crazy. Obviously there are the merits of retraining crew that have gain some other skills past 100%, but why oh why does it cost the same for a new recruit as it does with someone with field experience??? This is a little crap, and breaks the 'game world' a little. And please don't reply with the arguement of the devs needing money, as, theoretically speaking, i would be spending money any way. So should it not cost a bit less gold to train experienced crew to 100% than new 'recruits'?

Naeron66 #2 Posted 18 March 2011 - 02:52 AM

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View PostSteT, on 18 March 2011 - 12:36 AM, said:

Ok,

only really noticed this today, but why on earth does it cost 200 gold to train crew too 100% no matter what their experience was on another tank? Seems a little crazy. Obviously there are the merits of retraining crew that have gain some other skills past 100%, but why oh why does it cost the same for a new recruit as it does with someone with field experience??? This is a little crap, and breaks the 'game world' a little. And please don't reply with the arguement of the devs needing money, as, theoretically speaking, i would be spending money any way. So should it not cost a bit less gold to train experienced crew to 100% than new 'recruits'?

Why would their previous training matter that much when you are training them to a new tank by sending them on a tank training course, realistically speaking they would find the course easier but at the end they will be at the same level as everyone else on the course?

Retraining a 100% crew to a new tank should be done using credits unless you have lots of money because they do not start at 75% they start at 90% and it does not take long to get them back up to 100% when their secondary skills start to progress again.

Why add lots of complexity to the calulations for cost?

Foka #3 Posted 18 March 2011 - 08:23 AM

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Previous training is one thing, but why training from 50% to 100% cost this same in gold what from 99% to 100%? When cost training in credits, to 75%, depends on % needed to achive goal?

elektrizikekswerk #4 Posted 18 March 2011 - 08:39 AM

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Try to see it from this point of view:

To get 100% the tank's crew go to a academy. Do you think a academy would give you discount just because you might be more experienced than other students? I don't think so...

Foka #5 Posted 18 March 2011 - 08:44 AM

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So, why lower level school give this discount? :)

elektrizikekswerk #6 Posted 18 March 2011 - 08:50 AM

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An academy is not a lower level school ;)

The fee for a course on this special academy is 200 gold. Regardless if you have driven a tank before or not.

edit: and a low-level school gives discount because they just need pupils. If they would'nt no one would give his credits for that. It's like marketing ;)

Stoffy #7 Posted 18 March 2011 - 09:13 AM

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View PostST61, on 18 March 2011 - 08:44 AM, said:

So, why lower level school give this discount? :)

Well, they don't.
If you buy a crew at 50% and then play it up to 74%, paying 20k credits will still only take them to 75%.
The price is always the same; free, 20k credits or 200g, but that price might take your crew to different levels depending on their previous training when retraining them for a new tank.

Foka #8 Posted 18 March 2011 - 09:24 AM

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View PostStoffy, on 18 March 2011 - 09:13 AM, said:

If you buy a crew at 50% and then play it up to 74%, paying 20k credits will still only take them to 75%.
The price is always the same
I'll check when I'm home, but I'm 90% sure that credit price changes depending on current exp level of crewmember.

Stoffy #9 Posted 18 March 2011 - 09:27 AM

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View PostST61, on 18 March 2011 - 09:24 AM, said:

I'll check when I'm home, but I'm 90% sure that credit price changes depending on current exp level of crewmember.

Only when you are retraining your crew to a new tank.

MoZo87 #10 Posted 18 March 2011 - 09:38 AM

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I have never even thought of using money to train a crew..

I allways take the 50% crew and train them myself.  :Smile-izmena:

TriCannon #11 Posted 18 March 2011 - 10:45 AM

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i allways go for the 75% option, which translates to 90% if you had a 100% crew on the previous tank.. the only reason to train directly to 100% with gold, is if you have a tank where you need to start gaining 2nd skills right a way

i think a lot of people will start doing that once the game launches, that way they will gain 2nd skills during their entire lvling

as for the cost getting less, i think it's been answered. A course allways costs the same, no matter your previous experience.. some thing are best left unchanged.. you know how it is with patches, they fix 10 bugs and probably create 11 new

GorDoink #12 Posted 18 March 2011 - 12:27 PM

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View PostTriCannon, on 18 March 2011 - 10:45 AM, said:

i allways go for the 75% option, which translates to 90% if you had a 100% crew on the previous tank.. the only reason to train directly to 100% with gold, is if you have a tank where you need to start gaining 2nd skills right a way

At the moment, while the gold is free, I find I have enough gold for premium and to 'gold' the crews, it saves time and gives the crew more time to learn 2nd skills.


View PostTriCannon, on 18 March 2011 - 10:45 AM, said:

i think a lot of people will start doing that once the game launches, that way they will gain 2nd skills during their entire lvling

I'm not so sure because the gold will cost.


View PostTriCannon, on 18 March 2011 - 10:45 AM, said:

you know how it is with patches, they fix 10 bugs and probably create 11 new

The proverbially, 95% done, 95% to do that you get with software.

Loon #13 Posted 18 March 2011 - 02:08 PM

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If you have a crew on 100% and then train them for a new tank, what level are they if you put them back into the first tank?

war4peace #14 Posted 18 March 2011 - 04:45 PM

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I am thinking of a slightly differet approach to the whole problem.
Let's say I am going up a tank tree (russian TDs).
SU-76 crew is all at 100% (with some secondary specialization, camo in this case).
When I move up to SU-85B, I want to move my old crew to it (upgrade their skills) but I face an interesting issue. To get them to 100% the cost is still 200 gold for each.
That being said, there is no incentive to stick to a crew and move them up all the way from tier 2 to tier 9 (or 10) because their retraining costs the same.
There's no incentive for me to go up and get higher-tiered tanks (except for "I want to show off").
This is the reason why I will keep all my 100% crews and their tanks for as long as possible. Maybe sell the tanks but keep the crews.

SastusBulbas #15 Posted 18 March 2011 - 06:47 PM

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I think the crew training costs are a rip off.

A 50% crew costs the same as a 90% crew to get to 100%? Pathetic. You can only use gold for this but you can train some crews for money below 100%? pathetic, IE a 100% crew member may cost 20K to get to 90% in a new tank, or may be 80% for free, but even if he has been in three tanks and each one has been payed for 100% training, you again have to for out the money?

Russian heavy, 6 crew members, count the cost of taking that crew mwmber through the ranks to your IS-7, just so you can retain the secondary skill training. 7200 gold to keep training a heavy tank crew to use a heavy tank for six consecutive heavy tanks? Don't you thik the crew would have got the basics of it after the second or third heavy?

So we have old crews at times with around 7200 gold spent on them just to get those firefighting, repair and cammo skills you earn via playing to increase?

I think there is nothing wrong with letting people spend credits or gold to train a crew, but a 75% crew should be less to train than a 50% crew etc.

But it is about making money, not what is fair, I have ground plenty of crews from 50% to 100%, I have paid for crews to 75% and ground them up to 100%, I have transfered crews at 200 gold per crew member so I can keep my 50% or such repair training. I have flat out bought 100% crews.

The amount of grinding and tedious performance you have to endure with a 50% or 75% or 80% or 90% crew means I will not be using such on release, I want my tank to function to the on paper stats not 50% less. Crews with secondary traing will get passed to popular tanks, as having a 100% crew member makes a huge difference, having a 300% crew member is even better. Pay to Win, that is the game dynamic.

Edit, if you work a crew up from an AT-1, through all TD's to an Object TD, if the crew is put back into the AT-1 they are at 80% free, 20K for 90%, 200 gold for 100%. You pay for skills but don't fully retain them. Can you imagine having to pay to relearn to drive a basic hatchback after 10 years of driving everything a class above?

feluke #16 Posted 18 March 2011 - 08:27 PM

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sastusbulbas - chill out man, as someone said before you send your crew to school. School's dont give a damn about how much you know about anything. They start to teach you from basics and if you already knew it, it's wasted time only for you.

If you compare normal car driving so let it be. Let's say that you drive a sport car like Lotus Exidge for about 1 year. You drove hundreds of miles, around the race tracks, normal rounds etc. You know everything about the car, how it drive, where are the limits of car. Now you get Suzuki Maruti. You think that you would be competitive to other Suzuki Maruti drivers who had they're cars for a year?? NO!
You only would know where is steering wheel, pedals and how to change gears or brake. Everything else is different. How car turns, brake, accelerate.
Now imagine that we send you to school to learn to drive Suzuki Maruti. Probably you would be competitive after you learn about the car and how it perform on track.
Every car is different, you got the knowledge from other cars how to drive it but you don't know the specific car until you drive in it for a little bit.
The easiest comparison is how long you have accommodate  from left-hand-drive to right-hand-drive. On first look it's easy but in reality it's quiet hard and take some time.
The same goes for tanks, basics are the same but every tank perform different and to juice out everything from it you need to learn a little bit about it.
That's why your crew doesn't drop to 50% with every new tank. They already have experience from previous tanks and they only need to accommodate to new tank.
It looks like this
80% FREE - you put crew into new tank and send it into battle. New tank, they dont know how it perform, where are the buttons/levers, they learn it in battle so theyre overall performance is lower.
90% 20k - basic training and few test drives in new tank. They know where are the buttons/levers but still training was to short to know tank well.
100% 200gold - full training with a lot of training battles, shooting to targets etc.

Now tell me where is the rip off?
Going to lower tiers and still have to pay for training which we payed earlier? Yes, it should be a bit lower but don't waste gold on it. Even if you take free option your crew still perform better then new crew with 50%.

GorDoink #17 Posted 18 March 2011 - 09:03 PM

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View PostJoppsta360, on 18 March 2011 - 07:49 PM, said:

Also the gold costs for renaming/personalising your crew are ludicrous.

On the other hand, does it matter what the crew look like or what their names are?

SastusBulbas #18 Posted 18 March 2011 - 10:31 PM

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View Postfeluke, on 18 March 2011 - 08:27 PM, said:

sastusbulbas - chill out man, as someone said before you send your crew to school. School's dont give a damn about how much you know about anything. They start to teach you from basics and if you already knew it, it's wasted time only for you.

If you compare normal car driving so let it be. Let's say that you drive a sport car like Lotus Exidge for about 1 year. You drove hundreds of miles, around the race tracks, normal rounds etc. You know everything about the car, how it drive, where are the limits of car. Now you get Suzuki Maruti. You think that you would be competitive to other Suzuki Maruti drivers who had they're cars for a year?? NO!
You only would know where is steering wheel, pedals and how to change gears or brake. Everything else is different. How car turns, brake, accelerate.
Now imagine that we send you to school to learn to drive Suzuki Maruti. Probably you would be competitive after you learn about the car and how it perform on track.
Every car is different, you got the knowledge from other cars how to drive it but you don't know the specific car until you drive in it for a little bit.
The easiest comparison is how long you have accommodate  from left-hand-drive to right-hand-drive. On first look it's easy but in reality it's quiet hard and take some time.
The same goes for tanks, basics are the same but every tank perform different and to juice out everything from it you need to learn a little bit about it.
That's why your crew doesn't drop to 50% with every new tank. They already have experience from previous tanks and they only need to accommodate to new tank.
It looks like this
80% FREE - you put crew into new tank and send it into battle. New tank, they dont know how it perform, where are the buttons/levers, they learn it in battle so theyre overall performance is lower.
90% 20k - basic training and few test drives in new tank. They know where are the buttons/levers but still training was to short to know tank well.
100% 200gold - full training with a lot of training battles, shooting to targets etc.

Now tell me where is the rip off?
Going to lower tiers and still have to pay for training which we payed earlier? Yes, it should be a bit lower but don't waste gold on it. Even if you take free option your crew still perform better then new crew with 50%.

Why do you think I need to chill out?

I have my own opinion based on what I have played, trained and spent money on in this game. My opinion is it is too expensive and a crew with heavy tank experience and in battle experience in real life would retrain quicker than recruits freshly passed off parade square.

Take a look at the russian heavy line, in many cases same guns, radio's, ammo etc etc, driver may well take a few drives in battle to eek out more, gunner may have different optics and aiming set up, but a radio operator? Commander with battle experience? loaders? It does not take private school or officers training to learn to drive a new vehicle or shoot a new gun or change where you load ammo from in real life, just as in real life there is a difference between a combat veteran and raw recruit when it comes to training with much new equipment.

Your school analogy well, you go into a class and you will progress well if you know the subject, I train people, those that know the job subject from a different angle and have previous similar experience progress quicker than those who are starting fresh.

Like riding a bike, you do not need to go back to basics if you are going from a hardtail to a full sus, so lets say we pay 200 gold to learn to ride a rigid bike, we then progress to another bike with suspension, and while our skill drops, we have to pay another 200 gold to get that lost 20% experience?

Hmm, dear sir, I want to go to Uni, I have just finished school, and college, I have the qualifications to progress from, so how about it? Well son. you will have to pay for and go through school and college again before you get your class placement in Uni!

Blah blah blah, my own opinion, I think retraining is expensive, and should have the cost re-evaluated. To get a crew from 50% to 75% costs 20'000 credits for a 25% increase, to get a crew from 75% or 85% or 90% to 100% costs 200 gold, the equivalent of 80'000 credits, the same as a crew from 50%. A tranfered 100% crew is 80% for free, 20K for an extra 10% or the equivalent of 80'000 credits worth of gold for 10% or 20% extra, regardless of him having been in one or seven heavy tanks? In my opinion the more experience a crew has, the less it should cost to train them up.  

It's world of tanks not school, it's a game, where 25% can cost you 20'000 or 25% can cost you 80'000, or you can get 50% for 80'000. Take that to school. I am a fully qualified 100% radio operator (I paid 200 gold for this qualification!) and live in an IS-3 I use an R113 Radio, oh no, I have now been put in an IS-4 with an R113 Radio, how the hell do I operate this thing again?  :Smile_great:

Homer_J #19 Posted 18 March 2011 - 10:48 PM

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View PostSteT, on 18 March 2011 - 12:36 AM, said:

Ok,

only really noticed this today, but why on earth does it cost 200 gold to train crew too 100% no matter what their experience was on another tank? Seems a little crazy. Obviously there are the merits of retraining crew that have gain some other skills past 100%, but why oh why does it cost the same for a new recruit as it does with someone with field experience???

If you take a 50% crew, use them for a while then train them to 100% using gold you will find (when you choose which one) they already have some secondary skills.  The exp doesn't just disappear.

SteT #20 Posted 19 March 2011 - 01:16 PM

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View PostHomer_J, on 18 March 2011 - 10:48 PM, said:

If you take a 50% crew, use them for a while then train them to 100% using gold you will find (when you choose which one) they already have some secondary skills.  The exp doesn't just disappear.

I know the secondary skill doesn't disappear. That wasn't the point of the topic.




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