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maybe....^^

ok to be no killjoy i would prefer the Leo 2A7+ with a lot of support(PzGrennies with Puma and Arty ftw)

Give me 1+ so i dont have minus stats... Im not so bad afterall...

ok, hope you do the same.

U can have tomorrow im in my limit today. Buuuuuuut i dont like blackmailing with knife...

The Challenger's gun is excellent. You ever seen one of them fire? Could put the shell through my letterbox from a mile away.

In terms of combat, the Leopard 2 and Challenger are seriously close. It also does depend on what you want from the tank. Maneuvoring=Leopard 2 but for firepower=Challenger 2. Every tank has good sides and downsides, the Abrams just happens to have more downsides

but the Challenger will become a 120-mm L/55 Rheinmetall gun, as replacment for the old  rifled 120-mm L/55 gun, like the Leo2 and the K2. While the 120-mm L/44 is used in many other tanks like Abrmas, K1, Typ 90, Typ 10 and Merkava MkIII and higher.


The reason is the RH-gun have more penetration with tungsten-carbid rounds than the old gun with uranium-amo.

 Firenze, on 29 July 2010 - 05:00 PM, said:

That's, I haven't seen them fire. I can only speak for Leopard 2A5 and 6 int hat respect and those are terrifying, with spreads of less than 20cm at 1500m

challenger 1 destroyed a iraqi tank at 5.1km distance wich is the longest kill ever and even more impressive because the british 120mm guns are rifled, not smootbores. Rifled guns have less accuracy beyond 4km range

It does show the capability of a tank like that. The fact that modern armour can engage out of sight aquisition is incredible. Another story of a Challenger 2 I heard was it took 12 RPG rounds and a MILAN AT missile and all what was damaged was the sight. It retreated for repairs and was back in action 6 hours later.

I so wish they do an expansion for modern tanks for this game.

 Firenze, on 30 July 2010 - 04:59 PM, said:

rpg 7D?)do u know smthng about rpg 32 and 36?)))

 otiepws, on 30 July 2010 - 06:01 PM, said:

MILAN ATGM penetrates the same as those new RPG's  

Hah, so much debate on if the Challenger 2 is better or worse than the Leopard 2. Too bad we won't see the Germans and British duking it out again any time soon  

But that said, both tanks are amazing and I would have a hard time choosing from the two. But modern tanks would have been more interesting if either the Russian T-95 or the Black Eagle gone through the prototype phase.

 Brandmon, on 31 July 2010 - 12:06 AM, said:

I am a Brit, and I still say the Leopard would win in combat. Purely because it is so fast and agile and can close the gap faster.

today the tank win, which noticed the other first, so observation is important on battelfield.

 PzGrenKdr, on 31 July 2010 - 06:45 PM, said:

Very true. This is why air support and radar is so crucial. +1 for you

thx also not only air and radar also inf/vehicle-scouts are neccesary for obersavation. NO airplane/robot-plane or radar could find a well camoflaged inf-squad with ATGM or a mortar(with AT-amo) with forward obersvationpost. Today tanks are more tombs than in ww2(only in real wars, in asymmetric wars the tanks have still great power)

But the anti-tank is now losing against the tank

http://en.wikipedia....otection_System
http://en.wikipedia....otection_system
http://en.wikipedia....otection_system

The US are even developing a CIWS based on the XM214 Microgun. The 5.56mm gatling weapon would engage long range ATGM's and while a system like TROPHY can secure short range engagements.

Tank vs anti-tank has always been a fight wich changed alot. MBT in 1949 made tanks superior in the fields untill the ATGM came in 1970. Then came ERA. Then came multi-stage warhead. Then came compostive armor, then came even bigger warhead....and now this. Experts believe the HEAT round might found its maker

mhm against every armour/weapon there will be a counter.

also the Gatling-guns system don´t work very well on ships(the Brits loost some ships in Falkland-war because of this weakness)

we wil see it in future(hopefully not in a war, but as peacetime presentation)

 PzGrenKdr, on 02 August 2010 - 01:02 AM, said:

The british did not had any of those weapons during the falkland wars. They still had old bofors guns right from WW2.

and yes, let us hope it remains a peacetime presentation. Never war

 theta0123, on 02 August 2010 - 11:36 AM, said:

no the British have US CIWS with 20-mm Gattling on their ships and they failed several times, 3-4 ships were lost.