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Is There Hope?


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Fantabulousness #41 Posted 20 December 2013 - 02:58 PM

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View Postdr_Hannibalus, on 20 December 2013 - 11:09 AM, said:

I like your logic ;)
But I think you are actually right.

It's not my logic. The other guy started saying mediums are better scouts than dedicated scouts.



Tazilon #42 Posted 20 December 2013 - 03:21 PM

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View Postfilefool, on 19 December 2013 - 05:18 PM, said:


'Nuff said? Really? That's one hell of an argument.

The camo advantage only works when moving since there are a lot of mediums who have the same camo value as high tier light tanks. And with the increased accuracy, active scouting became a lot more dangerous than it used to be.The M46 has almost the same camo value as the Chaffee and the T71 while having a better viewrange, the The T-34-2 has an even better camo value than the WZ-131. And speed alone isn't what makes a scout good, otherwise the PZ IC would be overpowered as hell.

It's all about survivability and just because some people excel with light tanks doesn't mean they aren't broken. Hell Tazilon can even make the VK 28.01 work although that vehicle has been nerfed to hell and back.

I respect your opinion but your attitude makes me think you're one of those elitist unicums (or soon to be unicums as you're obviously on a smurf account) that bashes every discussion about underpowered tanks with the "learn to play" argument.

 

Oh and even though i am nowhere near unicum efficiency, i think my stats with light tanks are decent enough to give my arguments at least some weight.

 

 

What you are saying is that Wargaming has screwed up their game and need to backstep and fix it.

 

 - Lights should go faster than any tank they face.

 

 - Lights should have slightly higher View Ranges than the tanks they face.   Believe it or not, the scout Tank did NOT do the scouting for their unit.  They were there to support the wheeled, armored vehicles which were there to over watch the actual Scout - a Jeep or similar type vehicle.  Closed turret or not didn't affect the Scout unit's ability to spot - because the REAL spotters were in small mobile 4WD vehicles - the Scout tanks simply supported the real spotters.  Thus giving scout tanks slightly higher View Ranges would portray the inclusion of those spotters with the Scout tank.

 

- Environmental Camo should return to how it used to be and Mediums/TDs should be harder to hide than their smaller brethren in Scout tanks.

 

Those 3 changes fix scouting.

 


Edited by Tazilon, 22 December 2013 - 08:14 PM.


Fantabulousness #43 Posted 20 December 2013 - 03:30 PM

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View PostTazilon, on 20 December 2013 - 02:21 PM, said:

- Environmental Camo should return to how it used to be and Mediums/TDs should be harder to see than their smaller brethren in Scout tanks.

What?



nA_ #44 Posted 20 December 2013 - 03:31 PM

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Would like dedicated scouts to be salvaged from maps which are commonly recognized as scout-unfriendly.

 

Fewer Himmelsdorf, Ensk, Mountain pass etc. with some scouts on one and low tier tank destroyers on the opposite side.

 

It usually ruins the balance favouring the hostile team rigged for victory

 

More matches at same tier as your respective light scout tank would be great too.



dr_Hannibalus #45 Posted 20 December 2013 - 11:32 PM

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View Postdistrofijus, on 20 December 2013 - 01:03 PM, said:

 

Are you suggesting that in the teams with both LTs and MTs, MTs should scout?

 

No.
My point is that while MTs can sometimes scout for team, if there is a dedicated scout it is better in my opinion for MT to let the light do his job, while he can focus on dealing damage.

The whole problem is that I don't see much sense in moving my Aufkl. Panther from garage, if I have decent mediums which are very flexible, and can occasionaly scout if needed. Plus MTs can be decent damage dealers.

View PostnA_, on 20 December 2013 - 03:31 PM, said:

Would like dedicated scouts to be salvaged from maps which are commonly recognized as scout-unfriendly.

 

Fewer Himmelsdorf, Ensk, Mountain pass etc. with some scouts on one and low tier tank destroyers on the opposite side.

 

It usually ruins the balance favouring the hostile team rigged for victory

 

More matches at same tier as your respective light scout tank would be great too.

 

I'm afraid thats not going to happen...


Edited by dr_Hannibalus, 20 December 2013 - 11:33 PM.


misterslate #46 Posted 21 December 2013 - 12:28 AM

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View PostAlidore, on 16 December 2013 - 01:14 AM, said:

More action oriented? Bring back arty and less world of tank destroyers camping.

 

 

The whole idea of TD's is to camp and shoot :bush:



Tazilon #47 Posted 21 December 2013 - 01:16 AM

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View PostFantabulousness, on 20 December 2013 - 02:30 PM, said:

What?

 

Several patches ago they gave TDs better camo ratings - which made them way too hard to see, so instead of being smart and reducing their camo values, they reduced the camo values for trees and bushes (environmental camo).

 

No idea why anyone would neg rep this - it is exactly what happened.  Wargaming has stated what they did and why.


Edited by Tazilon, 21 December 2013 - 03:41 AM.


Tazilon #48 Posted 21 December 2013 - 01:17 AM

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View PostnA_, on 20 December 2013 - 02:31 PM, said:

Would like dedicated scouts to be salvaged from maps which are commonly recognized as scout-unfriendly.

 

Fewer Himmelsdorf, Ensk, Mountain pass etc. with some scouts on one and low tier tank destroyers on the opposite side.

 

It usually ruins the balance favouring the hostile team rigged for victory

 

More matches at same tier as your respective light scout tank would be great too.

 

 

That should stay luck of the draw - some maps are more challenging for certain classes than others - that is just how it goes.



Akula971 #49 Posted 21 December 2013 - 01:52 AM

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WG are missing one vital historical fact, that after 1945, the idea of the dedicated scout or recce tank was obsolete. Reconnaissance could be carried out by better light forces or aircraft. Light tanks were still made, but not for the purpose of reconnaissance, usually air deployable to give airborne troops an anti tank capability. Even that has gone now. The role is now carried out by troop carrying APC's.

 

To me the solution is simple. Change the light tanks capabilities and their match making so that they are restricted to tier below say 6. Where they have better cammo, better view range. Above that there is no advantage so you wouldn't see a light tank in a tier 7,8,9 or 10 game as mediums carry out their role, and have better view range, etc, etc.

 

This would mean that some of the latter 1940.50s soviet tanks would be incredibly weak on the battlefield, but that is exactly what happened after all.



ghj1987 #50 Posted 21 December 2013 - 02:28 AM

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I can't speak for all armed forces, but the British Army definitely uses dedicated armoured vehicles for reconnaissance, we have whole regiments dedicated to force reconnaissance, they use Scimitar and other members of the CVR(T) family.

Fantabulousness #51 Posted 21 December 2013 - 03:20 PM

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View PostTazilon, on 21 December 2013 - 12:16 AM, said:

 

Several patches ago they gave TDs better camo ratings - which made them way too hard to see, so instead of being smart and reducing their camo values, they reduced the camo values for trees and bushes (environmental camo).

 

No idea why anyone would neg rep this - it is exactly what happened.  Wargaming has stated what they did and why.


I still don't quite get why you say mediums and heavies should be harder to see than much smaller light tanks.



Tazilon #52 Posted 21 December 2013 - 05:24 PM

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View PostFantabulousness, on 21 December 2013 - 02:20 PM, said:


I still don't quite get why you say mediums and heavies should be harder to see than much smaller light tanks.

 

oh, I don't know....perhaps because BIGGER things are easier to see than SMALLER things?  BIGGER things are harder to hide than SMALLER things?   Just goofy little stuff like that...


Edited by Tazilon, 21 December 2013 - 05:24 PM.


Fantabulousness #53 Posted 21 December 2013 - 06:40 PM

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View PostTazilon, on 21 December 2013 - 04:24 PM, said:

oh, I don't know....perhaps because BIGGER things are easier to see than SMALLER things?  BIGGER things are harder to hide than SMALLER things?   Just goofy little stuff like that...

Yes, but you say it should be the other way around...:facepalm:


Edited by Fantabulousness, 21 December 2013 - 06:41 PM.


Biohazardry #54 Posted 21 December 2013 - 08:39 PM

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View PostTazilon, on 21 December 2013 - 05:24 PM, said:

 

oh, I don't know....perhaps because BIGGER things are easier to see than SMALLER things?  BIGGER things are harder to hide than SMALLER things?   Just goofy little stuff like that...

Big things can be also camouflaged.... just saying

 

Spoiler

 



Askorti #55 Posted 21 December 2013 - 09:03 PM

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View PostFantabulousness, on 21 December 2013 - 06:40 PM, said:

Yes, but you say it should be the other way around...:facepalm:


I think Taz simply had a small brain fart while writing the first post and didn't notice, happens to all of us. :)



Fantabulousness #56 Posted 21 December 2013 - 09:09 PM

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View PostAskorti, on 21 December 2013 - 08:03 PM, said:


I think Taz simply had a small brain fart while writing the first post and didn't notice, happens to all of us. :)

That's why I asked what he meant and he started going full siema at me for no reason. He should chill his pants, really

Tazilon #57 Posted 22 December 2013 - 08:15 PM

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View PostFantabulousness, on 21 December 2013 - 02:20 PM, said:


I still don't quite get why you say mediums and heavies should be harder to see than much smaller light tanks.

 

 

ahh..i see what you are talking about.  I meant to say "..harder to HIDE than..."   Fixed.



Anymn #58 Posted 28 December 2013 - 07:59 PM

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WG makes it so hard for themselves....

 

The problem: People complain that a tier 6 scout is too fast, too invisible, and is able to kill a tier X TD....

 

WG's solution: Nerf all tier 6 scouts to slow mediums without speed/cammo/viewrange/firepower

My solution: Bring the tier 6 scouts to tier 8 with their old stats (before good speed/cammo), with a normal MM. They are now balanced again to other tanks on their tier. Trading firepower and hp for speed and cammo. (oh, and get that T-50-2 back :confused:)



Zarax999 #59 Posted 03 January 2014 - 10:40 AM

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Or you can look into history to ask for coherent buffs: http://zxhistory.blo...-ii-series.html

Robinvoelsen #60 Posted 03 January 2014 - 08:01 PM

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There is hope atleast regarding the Ru251:

 

 by SilentStalker on For the Record

- apparently, Wargaming managed to find the RU251 prototype and the owner (not specified who) sent them some photos of it, they are waiting for further documents

 

Original Source (russian): http://world-of-kwg....com/269546.html

 






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