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The intercoursing fuzz about Gold Ammo

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Rariity #1 Posted 06 January 2014 - 05:31 AM

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Okay,

Time for my first post, I guess.

I asked around in my clan and some other people. But I would like to hear more opinions about this topic.

From a larger community. And it won't get larger than this.

So I hope, that there will be some kind of feedback.

 

Okay, there is one thing that bugs me about this game and some of its players.

"omg PLAYERXY gold noob" "gold noob uninstall gaem" "nice gold TANKNAME" et cetera.

Now, besides the astounding hypocrisy of most of these people (since they use Gold themselves and just got mad, because something penetrated their ego) there are still some hardcore 1337 elite gamers, who don't use gold ammunition at all.

And now, if someone who falls in this category feels offended, then I apologize.

But I think, thats cowfeces.

Will there anyone coming to you, padding you on the shoulder and say "Well, you died, because you couldn't penetrate that low HP KV-4 and we lost the game, but at least you didn't use gold ammo!"?

No. Nobody. It's a intercoursing game. Nobody gives a flying intercourse about your honor, if your Hellcat fails to penetrate some KV-4 or something. (could be a bad example, but those are the first tanks, that came to my mind) You will see the lost battel result screen and the enemy team getting more exp than you.

I do realize, that this is a somewhat overdone example, but I hope you get my point.

Nobody will value you really for your fake-battlefield-honor.

But, yes I know, that Gold Ammunition isn't really important, if you know most weakspots, but there are situations, where you just need higher pen.

Sure, there are tanks, that CAN do without gold ammo, but are just way more fun with gold ammo. (*cough* E-100 *cough*)

 

Really now. I don't get it. If you see it as an "challenge for yourself" to not use gold ammo, then uh. Okay. But I don't think such people go around and call people gold noobs.

Most people I asked said it's because of their gaming honor.

Personally I think, thats kind of hipsterish.

 

Again, if I offended someone with this, then forgibe me pl0x. I didn't intend to. And if you have a good reason for not using gold ammo, that doesn't deprives in fake-honor or your wish to be different than the average player, then please tell me. Hit me with your knowledge, like an KV-2 hits an unexpecting Chi-To in its buttocks.

Because otherwise, its simple: It's in the motherintercoursing game, and it can give you an advantage over the guy who tries to wreck you. So you can use it.

 


Edited by Rariity, 06 January 2014 - 05:48 AM.


Norrin_Radd #2 Posted 06 January 2014 - 06:41 AM

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People of my generation started playing computer games when they were hard, there was no cheat, respawns and other easy options for finishing a game. We see these easy options as a cop out and don't appreciate them at all. To give an example that even younger players can maybe get their head around, does the person who crosses the line first in the 100m final of the Olympics deserve the Gold medal even though he drug tests positive? Think we all would say no he cheated even though by your argument he took an option that gave him a better chance of winning and it is available to all. I know you lot will counter by saying but that IS cheating and we are only using what is legally available, but to people like me it feels like a cheat and the fact that others can do it too doesn't diminish that feeling.

Gold ammo is a game breaker, it was introduced as a P2W option which a free game can't do so now it's available to all. Yes I do use it, because to be honest I'd be mad to totally ignore it since so many do use it, but would I be happier if it wasn't there or at the very least it was balanced in some way so it wasn't a game breaker.....too bloody right!!!!! 

But saying I have used it doesn't change the fact that in tanks like the T69 which in most peoples hands is a gold spamming machine I never used gold cos I might use it as a safety net (and not that often) I would never spam gold.



anonym_kL7qtn3e52MB #3 Posted 06 January 2014 - 10:32 AM

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Prem ammo is a tool. An option for when regular ammo doesn't cut the cake.

 

Therefore they should limit the amount of premium shells based on the relative tier of a the tank and the effectiveness of a gun.

T10's should not even have access to prem shells...

 

 

Anyway. Example:

 

A match with T6, T7 and T8 tanks. The T8 doesn't get any (or maybe 1). The T7 get 1-3 (should depend on the potency of the gun, not all T7 guns are the same), the T6 gets 5-7 shells.

 

This way, no more whining about "Boohooh sucky MM pusts me into matches that are too hard"

No more T10 "Oh look at me, I'm supposed to be invulnerable to lower insects"

 

Another system that makes premium shells less spammable is giving them "diminishing returns".

This would mean that the profit of such a shell should be diminished every shot.

Shot 1 = 90% of normal XP/Credits.

2nd shot = 80% of normal XP/Credits

3rd shot....   you see where this is going....



TrailApe #4 Posted 06 January 2014 - 11:07 AM

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Quote

People of my generation started playing computer games when they were hard, there was no cheat, respawns and other easy options for finishing a game. We see these easy options as a cop out and don't appreciate them at all

 

I'm not sure I agree with you there.

 

I'm a pre-computer game fossil and I know what you mean about cheats, but any other mechanism that's in the game is there to be used.

 

There is an argument that dependance on gold becomes a crutch and lowers an individual's skill levels, however that's up to the individual. If they can afford gold and consistently use it that's ok by me.

 

I like Costarring's idea that the availability of Gold is a variable depending on the teir level of your tank - so the bottom of the food chain gets more access to gold, but even then you will still get those who consider themselves 'purists' complaining about the use of it.

 

The way I see it is if it was a real life deciscion and your government could afford it - what ammo would you personally use?

 

A bullet that has to hit a certain part of the enemy to have effect or a round that will constantly put the opposition down? I know if it was me I'd be filling my mags with gold rounds and not give it a second thought.

 

I only use gold rounds on a few tanks but that's my personal deciscion and I don't begrudge the enemy using whaever they can get their hands on.

 

To sum up - if it's in the rules it's ok to use it.

 

That is the opinion of the makers of the game, so any other views are irrelevant.



Norrin_Radd #5 Posted 06 January 2014 - 11:22 AM

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View PostTrailApe, on 06 January 2014 - 11:07 AM, said:

To sum up - if it's in the rules it's ok to use it.

 

That is the opinion of the makers of the game, so any other views are irrelevant.

So why have a forum and ask for players suggestions? In fact the whole point of a forum is to discuss the game and what is good/bad about it.



TrailApe #6 Posted 06 January 2014 - 11:53 AM

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Hello Norrin_Radd

 

Quote

So why have a forum and ask for players suggestions? In fact the whole point of a forum is to discuss the game and what is good/bad about it.

 

 

I certainly agree that a forum is the place to discuss this and you have every right to express your opinion.

 

However, you are coming to a forum and expecting to be allowed to express your opinions, but your opinion is that people should feel like you and hold your values as self-evident, and if they don’t play the game using self-imposed restrictions, they are then cheats? (I apologise if I have misread you and that’s not what you were saying)

 

Quote

but to people like me it feels like a cheat and the fact that others can do it too doesn't diminish that feeling.

 

Costarring made a suggestion – you just expressed your opinion – i.e. that anybody using gold are cheats  Oh hang on, you DO sanction gold use as long as you feel the necessity

 

Quote

I never used gold cos I might use it as a safety net (and not that often) I would never spam gold.
(my bolds)

 

So you use gold as ‘a safety net’ and feel justified in doing so. I put it to you that’s probably how most people use it themselves, and those that complain about gold users are usually in a big well armoured tank trying to stomp a tank two tiers below them – the lower tier tank, faced with something they cannot damage in the usual course of events, reach for their gold and ‘spam’ four or five rounds in self defence.

 

And then we get the inevitable insults and complaints about gold ammo.

 

So what do you suggest we do to make the game better in regards to gold ammo?

 



Norrin_Radd #7 Posted 06 January 2014 - 12:06 PM

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I do feel it's a cheat, but that doesn't make those using it cheaters if you know what I mean.

I would rather it didn't exist at all, it would make people have to use their brains when coming up against a heavily armoured tank and make the game play better. This will never happen so some sort of balancing should be done, whether that is limiting how many can be carried or making gold shells do less damage so that people would be discouraged from spamming them. We have HE shells which can do damage admittedly a small amount to a well armoured tank, but MM isn't that bad that you never have a tank that can take on the enemies strongest tank and it is supposed to be a team game after all.

 

Since the last update my XVM shows me when I am getting shot by gold shells and I am surprised at how often it is spammed, often by tanks that have no need for it admittedly. We have to live with it and I grudgingly accept that, but it should not be that good or available that tanks can be fully loaded with gold.



TrailApe #8 Posted 06 January 2014 - 12:46 PM

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For the record, I'd love to see them disappear, but at the minute they are there in everybody’s armoury.

 

 

If a player makes the decision not to use them, then they can't really gripe too much if others fire them, they are available to all.

 

 

There are some balancing issues that currently exist in the game that would be worse if they got rid of gold as some tanks simply cannot penetrate certain types - and I'm not talking about weak spots here, I'm talking about the total inability to penetrate same tier tanks anywhere.

 

One example of this is the problems that have been highlighted by the freebies of the Combat Car and the Brit Light Tank that we all have just received.

 

Have you tried taking on a T18 with them?

 

Just nothing to be done. And that’s been noticed as suddenly the T2 games are full of T18’s. Now if the two freebies had access to a few clips of gold, then the T18’s might  not be as common.

 

(My personal solution was to go and buy a Brit Cruiser MkIII with a 2lber and after every game in my Light Tank that I get splatted by a T18, I then jump into my pimped MkIII and go and kill as many T18’s as I can – pretty sad, but there you go, just because I’m over a certain age doesn’t have to say I act in a rational manner at all times)

 



anonym_kL7qtn3e52MB #9 Posted 06 January 2014 - 01:23 PM

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View PostTrailApe, on 06 January 2014 - 12:46 PM, said:

For the record, I'd love to see them disappear, but at the minute they are there in everybody’s armoury.

 

 

If a player makes the decision not to use them, then they can't really gripe too much if others fire them, they are available to all.

 

 

There are some balancing issues that currently exist in the game that would be worse if they got rid of gold as some tanks simply cannot penetrate certain types - and I'm not talking about weak spots here, I'm talking about the total inability to penetrate same tier tanks anywhere.

 

One example of this is the problems that have been highlighted by the freebies of the Combat Car and the Brit Light Tank that we all have just received.

 

Have you tried taking on a T18 with them?

 

Just nothing to be done. And that’s been noticed as suddenly the T2 games are full of T18’s. Now if the two freebies had access to a few clips of gold, then the T18’s might  not be as common.

 

(My personal solution was to go and buy a Brit Cruiser MkIII with a 2lber and after every game in my Light Tank that I get splatted by a T18, I then jump into my pimped MkIII and go and kill as many T18’s as I can – pretty sad, but there you go, just because I’m over a certain age doesn’t have to say I act in a rational manner at all times)

 

 

 

From my point of view (which includes doing something about massive prem spam) it also would mean you would remove something that was "normal" ammunition in that period (the era which WoT represents, WW1 up to ~50's designed tanks).

 

They didn't equip tanks with full loads for several reasons though.

And crews actually got training in when to use which type of shell etc.

 

And in war it's also a matter of economics. It's "how to kill the enemy in most cost effective way" ???(Incl. casualties, collateral damage etc.)

 

My suggestion(s) will take quite a bit of work (weighing each seperate gun etc.) and tuning.

Too much work for a company that thinks "If I want to own noobs, I can own noobs" (still no skill based MM...sorry for off-topic, but had to be mentioned) (plus, more people pay for premium if we don't change it)

 

Even lowering the damage is something (not my favorite), but don't remove it.



Rariity #10 Posted 06 January 2014 - 06:11 PM

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View PostNorrin_Radd, on 06 January 2014 - 05:41 AM, said:

People of my generation started playing computer games when they were hard, there was no cheat, respawns and other easy options for finishing a game. We see these easy options as a cop out and don't appreciate them at all. To give an example that even younger players can maybe get their head around, does the person who crosses the line first in the 100m final of the Olympics deserve the Gold medal even though he drug tests positive? Think we all would say no he cheated even though by your argument he took an option that gave him a better chance of winning and it is available to all. I know you lot will counter by saying but that IS cheating and we are only using what is legally available, but to people like me it feels like a cheat and the fact that others can do it too doesn't diminish that feeling.

Gold ammo is a game breaker, it was introduced as a P2W option which a free game can't do so now it's available to all. Yes I do use it, because to be honest I'd be mad to totally ignore it since so many do use it, but would I be happier if it wasn't there or at the very least it was balanced in some way so it wasn't a game breaker.....too bloody right!!!!! 

But saying I have used it doesn't change the fact that in tanks like the T69 which in most peoples hands is a gold spamming machine I never used gold cos I might use it as a safety net (and not that often) I would never spam gold.

I can see what you mean, but I do disagree to some degree. First, not only your generation is bound to the privilege of playing classics like Another World, Metroid, Star Fox etc etc :/

Being the nephew of an owner of an very large game shop, I grew up with those things and the mindset, that cheating is bad.

Hell, I still play my favourite Singleplayer games on Xbox, where is no cheating (other than on PC).

And I know many others who are in my agegroup or even below, who played the grand classics.

So there is that.

Furthermore, I dont understand how you make the link between your "classics" and an modern, top notch MMO.

It's two completly different things, and there is no "game to break". If you get an undestroyable Anti-Material-Rifle with explosive rounds at Level 1 in New Vegas, then it is game breaking.

But if you use your gold ammo to kill the dude who shoots at you, then it's not. Since the developers made it available.

The developers of NV didn't want to let a Level 1 Char run around with an apolocalyptic rifle.

But the developers of WoT, don't WANT you to shoot gold, but you CAN.

 

View PostCostarring, on 06 January 2014 - 09:32 AM, said:

Prem ammo is a tool. An option for when regular ammo doesn't cut the cake.

 

Therefore they should limit the amount of premium shells based on the relative tier of a the tank and the effectiveness of a gun.

T10's should not even have access to prem shells...

 

 

Anyway. Example:

 

A match with T6, T7 and T8 tanks. The T8 doesn't get any (or maybe 1). The T7 get 1-3 (should depend on the potency of the gun, not all T7 guns are the same), the T6 gets 5-7 shells.

 

This way, no more whining about "Boohooh sucky MM pusts me into matches that are too hard"

No more T10 "Oh look at me, I'm supposed to be invulnerable to lower insects"

 

Another system that makes premium shells less spammable is giving them "diminishing returns".

This would mean that the profit of such a shell should be diminished every shot.

Shot 1 = 90% of normal XP/Credits.

2nd shot = 80% of normal XP/Credits

3rd shot....   you see where this is going....

I definately see where you are going. But the balacing work that would need to be done for this is...astronomically high.

Every gun, for every tank would need to get analyzed and receive a fair amount of gold ammo, so players don't complain. And think of everything that needs to be considered.

Damage per shot? Accuracy? Firerate? And so on. Many many factors. Too much to implement it fairly and balanced.

 

The other thing seems a bit harsh in my opinion and it would be the absolute death sentence to some tanks.

 

Otherwise I do agree with you.

 

View PostTrailApe, on 06 January 2014 - 10:07 AM, said:

 

People of my generation started playing computer games when they were hard, there was no cheat, respawns and other easy options for finishing a game. We see these easy options as a cop out and don't appreciate them at all

 

I'm not sure I agree with you there.

 

I'm a pre-computer game fossil and I know what you mean about cheats, but any other mechanism that's in the game is there to be used.

 

There is an argument that dependance on gold becomes a crutch and lowers an individual's skill levels, however that's up to the individual. If they can afford gold and consistently use it that's ok by me.

 

I like Costarring's idea that the availability of Gold is a variable depending on the teir level of your tank - so the bottom of the food chain gets more access to gold, but even then you will still get those who consider themselves 'purists' complaining about the use of it.

 

The way I see it is if it was a real life deciscion and your government could afford it - what ammo would you personally use?

 

A bullet that has to hit a certain part of the enemy to have effect or a round that will constantly put the opposition down? I know if it was me I'd be filling my mags with gold rounds and not give it a second thought.

 

I only use gold rounds on a few tanks but that's my personal deciscion and I don't begrudge the enemy using whaever they can get their hands on.

 

To sum up - if it's in the rules it's ok to use it.

 

That is the opinion of the makers of the game, so any other views are irrelevant.

All of my agrees.

Take them.

 

 

And hey! Thanks for the replies. I was surprised by the decent amount of activity here.

 







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