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CAP or kill all tanks


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3kilos #61 Posted 06 January 2014 - 09:00 PM

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View PostSpeedDragon1991, on 06 January 2014 - 09:52 PM, said:

I have engaged this discussion with you personally previously. Whether or not you're implying my stats are bad or not is irrelevant. I make no claim as to my ability in this game other than I do think I know what I'm doing (when playing specific favourite vehicles) and what to expect from other players, especially when I'm top tierred, to a lesser degree when I'm mid-tierred, and not at all when I'm bottom tiered (frankly I hate those battles, they're too frustrating to play in the tanks I choose to play and do not take them seriously anymore, which most probably equates to 'bad stats' and your reasoning for 'doing it on purpose').

 

I think Miros was speaking in general ... and I agree with what he says ... and I have no issues with you, only with persons that try to keep others in the dark spreading BS and making people believe that capping more = winning more which is not true ... the forum is a place for debates and discussions based on facts and arguments, or so it should be ... so we should not be afraid of speaking and disagreeing with each other without insults and neg reps and all this BS ... but from time to time you find these forum trolls who are totally stubborn and ignorant to any kind of attempt to bring arguments and logic into the debate ... that is the moment when I am calling these people for what the really are ... forum trolls spreading BS and misguiding newer players that come here with the intention of actually learning something constructive about this game.

 

 

 


Edited by 3kilos, 06 January 2014 - 09:07 PM.


DingIsHere #62 Posted 06 January 2014 - 09:38 PM

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kilos.. there you go again... mis-reading and mis-representing what people say.

And be careful with the troll accusations, your getting a bit offensive.

 

you obviously cant understand arguments, points and counter points.

 

you still havent explained how chasing 1/2/3 tanks for   5 minutes is better than a new 5  minutes battle with  15 new pinatas

or why they should follow you, instead of you following them...

 

or mentioned any facts, which you seem fond of...



SpeedDragon1991 #63 Posted 06 January 2014 - 09:46 PM

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View Post3kilos, on 06 January 2014 - 08:00 PM, said:

 

I think Miros was speaking in general ... and I agree with what he says ... and I have no issues with you, only with persons that try to keep others in the dark spreading BS and making people believe that capping more = winning more which is not true ... the forum is a place for debates and discussions based on facts and arguments, or so it should be ... so we should not be afraid of speaking and disagreeing with each other without insults and neg reps and all this BS ... but from time to time you find these forum trolls who are totally stubborn and ignorant to any kind of attempt to bring arguments and logic into the debate ... that is the moment when I am calling these people for what the really are ... forum trolls spreading BS and misguiding newer players that come here with the intention of actually learning something constructive about this game.

 

 

 


I'm at the the point with this forum where I'll just have to agree to disagree where stats and their worth are concerned. I do not dispute that statistics have their place, but I do not believe that effiency ratings and judging people by that stat in game is right or fair considering they only measure certain things; I can only presume that that's the reason people like them (because they only measure certain things). I do not disagree that stats do measure skill, but only to a certain degree. Most of my complaints against people on this forum are simply on the basis that stats do not measure everything; efficiency ratings and win-rates should only be tools for individuals to try and progress their skill if they think / feel it's best for them that way to do so, otherwise it's just a passive interest and / or a number. My other main complaint is that it's ridiculously easy to pad stats in games to show-off to other people and players, which just tarnishes its credibility. For that reason it's nearly darn pointless using it as a tool of comparison, which is what people do when they say 'your efficiency is poor.' Poor compared to what?



Private_Miros #64 Posted 06 January 2014 - 09:47 PM

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View PostSpeedDragon1991, on 06 January 2014 - 07:52 PM, said:

I have engaged this discussion with you personally previously. Whether or not you're implying my stats are bad or not is irrelevant. I make no claim as to my ability in this game other than I do think I know what I'm doing (when playing specific favourite vehicles) and what to expect from other players, especially when I'm top tierred, to a lesser degree when I'm mid-tierred, and not at all when I'm bottom tiered (frankly I hate those battles, they're too frustrating to play in the tanks I choose to play and do not take them seriously anymore, which most probably equates to 'bad stats' and your reasoning for 'doing it on purpose').

 

It was a general statement.

 

View PostDingIsHere, on 06 January 2014 - 08:38 PM, said:

kilos.. there you go again... mis-reading and mis-representing what people say.

And be careful with the troll accusations, your getting a bit offensive.

 

you obviously cant understand arguments, points and counter points.

 

you still havent explained how chasing 1/2/3 tanks for   5 minutes is better than a new 5  minutes battle with  15 new pinatas

or why they should follow you, instead of you following them...

 

or mentioned any facts, which you seem fond of...

 

Depends what the one tank is. A full HP Maus or a 50 HP scout tank or arty.

 

3 tanks, are almost always worth in, and it never takes that long, though, yes, still longer than setting in cap 3 tanks.

 

Most frustrating and useless are those instances where the lemming train succeeds. That means you can flank and have fun, the reason why you pushed the flank oh wait they've just capped 10k damage and credits wasted for multiple team mates, usually by some birdbrians that did 0 damage and who rely completely on team damage dealt boni to spice up their xp. They also cap in droves, so the xp they earn through capping is often only 5 to 10 xp.



3kilos #65 Posted 06 January 2014 - 09:49 PM

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@DingIsHere,

 

Plenty of facts mentioned ... u just need to read them and stop repeating yourself over and over again ... already explained the fact that capping will not improve your win rate, playing better and killing the enemy will, new players need to understand this and stop this blind cap race, leaving 3 tanks alive in a winning game is a stupid thing to do ... just for the fact that the next game won't guarantee you the same success or victory so why waste XP/credits which are very easy to get on something that might or might not happen ? 

 

Facts are ... people that usually cap have low stats and low win rate, they never learn the game and they will most of the time be owned by better players ... who will just drive back and have fun with the cappers sitting in an exposed position with no cover ...

 

Capping should not become an automatic behavior ... it should be done when you really need to do it or else risk lose the game, when there is a single enemy left ... far away into the distance or even unspotted maybe ... cap is allright, but capping and leaving 1/4 or the enemies alive just cause u want to move faster to the next game is just unsound logical thinking ... u won the game now reap the rewards ... kill all enemies and take the bonus of XP/credits for your victory !!!

 

What is so hard to comprehend I do wonder ...


Edited by 3kilos, 06 January 2014 - 09:56 PM.


Private_Miros #66 Posted 06 January 2014 - 09:51 PM

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View PostSpeedDragon1991, on 06 January 2014 - 08:46 PM, said:


I'm at the the point with this forum where I'll just have to agree to disagree where stats and their worth are concerned. I do not dispute that statistics have their place, but I do not believe that effiency ratings and judging people by that stat in game is right or fair considering they only measure certain things; I can only presume that that's the reason people like them (because they only measure certain things). I do not disagree that stats do measure skill, but only to a certain degree. Most of my complaints against people on this forum are simply on the basis that stats do not measure everything; efficiency ratings and win-rates should only be tools for individuals to try and progress their skill if they think / feel it's best for them that way to do so, otherwise it's just a passive interest and / or a number. My other main complaint is that it's ridiculously easy to pad stats in games to show-off to other people and players, which just tarnishes its credibility. For that reason it's nearly darn pointless using it as a tool of comparison, which is what people do when they say 'your efficiency is poor.' Poor compared to what?

 

Poor compared to average.

 

Padding is only possible up, not down, and still needs a basic level of skill to built upon. I can't pad if my life depended on it for example. Every time I play low tier I end up at 600 or WN.



3kilos #67 Posted 06 January 2014 - 09:52 PM

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View PostPrivate_Miros, on 06 January 2014 - 10:47 PM, said:

 

It was a general statement.

 

 

Depends what the one tank is. A full HP Maus or a 50 HP scout tank or arty.

 

3 tanks, are almost always worth in, and it never takes that long, though, yes, still longer than setting in cap 3 tanks.

 

Most frustrating and useless are those instances where the lemming train succeeds. That means you can flank and have fun, the reason why you pushed the flank oh wait they've just capped 10k damage and credits wasted for multiple team mates, usually by some birdbrians that did 0 damage and who rely completely on team damage dealt boni to spice up their xp. They also cap in droves, so the xp they earn through capping is often only 5 to 10 xp.

 

This ... i will copy paste again bolded

 

Most frustrating and useless are those instances where the lemming train succeeds. That means you can flank and have fun, the reason why you pushed the flank oh wait they've just capped 10k damage and credits wasted for multiple team mates, usually by some birdbrians that did 0 damage and who rely completely on team damage dealt boni to spice up their xp. They also cap in droves, so the xp they earn through capping is often only 5 to 10 xp.



SpeedDragon1991 #68 Posted 06 January 2014 - 10:03 PM

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View Post3kilos, on 06 January 2014 - 08:52 PM, said:

 

This ... i will copy paste again bolded

 

Most frustrating and useless are those instances where the lemming train succeeds. That means you can flank and have fun, the reason why you pushed the flank oh wait they've just capped 10k damage and credits wasted for multiple team mates, usually by some birdbrians that did 0 damage and who rely completely on team damage dealt boni to spice up their xp. They also cap in droves, so the xp they earn through capping is often only 5 to 10 xp.

:trollface: This reminds me of all those games where the lemming trains head up one patch and then all stop at the first slight problem (hell even a light tank can cause a whole train to stop sometimes, if a rock doesn't beforehand). I believe if a team must lemming-train down one side, then it should at least push very hard to get to the opposite and at least start capping. The rest of the team should then carry on pushing round and head back for the allied cap (if safe). If the allied team don't, then the enemy team most probably will. Though the most likely outcome of these battles is the lemming train stops, get flanked by the opposing team and then get picked off one by one. The brave soul or two on the other side face an armada and stand very little chance. It's frustrating being that rare soul and seeing it numerous times on one day.


Edited by SpeedDragon1991, 06 January 2014 - 10:04 PM.


3kilos #69 Posted 06 January 2014 - 11:00 PM

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View PostSpeedDragon1991, on 06 January 2014 - 11:03 PM, said:

 

 

:trollface: This reminds me of all those games where the lemming trains head up one patch and then all stop at the first slight problem (hell even a light tank can cause a whole train to stop sometimes, if a rock doesn't beforehand). I believe if a team must lemming-train down one side, then it should at least push very hard to get to the opposite and at least start capping. The rest of the team should then carry on pushing round and head back for the allied cap (if safe). If the allied team don't, then the enemy team most probably will. Though the most likely outcome of these battles is the lemming train stops, get flanked by the opposing team and then get picked off one by one. The brave soul or two on the other side face an armada and stand very little chance. It's frustrating being that rare soul and seeing it numerous times on one day.

 

Well when i see a big lemming train on my team's part advancing with no opposition towards the enemy cap I am usually in a state of horror cause i just realize the enemy has a similar lemmings train comming the other way towards our base ... at that point its clear its gonna be another shitty 300 max XP game for either teams so i will just position myself in a good overview position near our cap so I can at least get some defender points and hopefully delay their cappers long enough for ours to win the game ... shitty game either way 


Edited by 3kilos, 06 January 2014 - 11:01 PM.


beermonsta #70 Posted 07 January 2014 - 12:18 AM

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View PostDingIsHere, on 06 January 2014 - 08:38 PM, said:

kilos.. there you go again... mis-reading and mis-representing what people say.

And be careful with the troll accusations, your getting a bit offensive.

 

you obviously cant understand arguments, points and counter points.

 

you still havent explained how chasing 1/2/3 tanks for   5 minutes is better than a new 5  minutes battle with  15 new pinatas

or why they should follow you, instead of you following them...

 

or mentioned any facts, which you seem fond of...

 

 

careful ding the fan bois wil be slagging you off on wot labs :)



3kilos #71 Posted 07 January 2014 - 12:46 AM

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View Postbeermonsta, on 07 January 2014 - 01:18 AM, said:

 

 

careful ding the fan bois wil be slagging you off on wot labs :)

 

Fan boys of what exactly ? pls enlighten me with your wisdom pls



Rzami85 #72 Posted 07 January 2014 - 04:05 AM

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I prefer destroying all tanks, but sometimes cap (if i play with SPG)

molan1976 #73 Posted 07 January 2014 - 09:36 AM

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View Post3kilos, on 06 January 2014 - 07:42 PM, said:

View PostDingIsHere, on 06 January 2014 - 08:23 PM, said:

 

I understand you are talking about you running off into the sunset with all the glory, and telling others they MUST leave cap because you think its best.

 

I have also seen enough supposed high skill players chasing the kill-tails and getting blasted by a tomato...

 

..and no.. this is not 1:1000 games... this is often...

 

I sometimes go chasing the last kills, but for the hell of it.. and I have never, I repeat NEVER asked anyone to leave cap for me.

That, is selfish, you want the glory, but he loses his possible 100xp capping, most of those who have got to cap will have some damage and maybe dont want to risk dying, the kill all whores are often shot up themselves... then the odds are getting more even, not in your favour... therefore losing a win...

 

On the millionth other thread about this subject, someone did a bunch of average XP/credit calculations on capping vs kill-all.. capping won.. primarily because of more games played, therfore more kills, more damage, more spotting, more everything...  If someone is a "stat whore", then they should want this, more XP and more WR%....

 

I will repeat this again...

 

YOU have NO right to demand OTHERS play how YOU say.

 

You have a nice little timer on your screen,  that's a nice little short term mission for you... shoo...

 

Glory ... selfishness ... such big words ... who is preventing the cappers from joining me and kill those last few remaining tanks ? I certainly don't cause when u say don't cap it doens't mean just sit out of the cap and do nothing while i kill all remaining enemy tanks alone, it really doesn't it only means kill all the remaining enemies ... not me, the team, u have some really twisted logic mate and its clear u understand nothing and I am wasting my time with you unfortunately. 

 

What people like you don't seem to understand is that capping statistically has nothing to do with winning, that's exactly why cap points are totally disregarded in WN7/8 ... there is no correlation between the amount of capping and your win rate ... that's why I see tomatoes capping in unnecessary situation more often than any others ... playing good and increasing your skill will get you better win rate not improving you cap points.

 

P.S. Yeah and checking your signature I now understand exactly with what kind of person I am trying to have a conversation based on facts and logic ... yeah dude STATS really mean nothing ... happy capping and let me know when your win rate will reach 60% please ;) or maybe win rate also doesn't matter to you also cause you probably just play for fun right ?

 

Well often it boils down to the same, you have the speed and range to kill the last tanks, the slow HT in CAP zone does not. Ergo you ask him to give up XP for CAP while you get XP for kill/dam...



DingIsHere #74 Posted 07 January 2014 - 09:41 AM

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Spoiler

 

Nope..

 

i see no single fact in there backed up by any kind of proof or even reasoned argument...

 

Much as I hate to say it... see below for an actual reasoned argument...

 

View PostPrivate_Miros, on 06 January 2014 - 08:47 PM, said:

Depends what the one tank is. A full HP Maus or a 50 HP scout tank or arty.

 

3 tanks, are almost always worth in, and it never takes that long, though, yes, still longer than setting in cap 3 tanks.

 

Most frustrating and useless are those instances where the lemming train succeeds. That means you can flank and have fun, the reason why you pushed the flank oh wait they've just capped 10k damage and credits wasted for multiple team mates, usually by some birdbrians that did 0 damage and who rely completely on team damage dealt boni to spice up their xp. They also cap in droves, so the xp they earn through capping is often only 5 to 10 xp.

 

 

and kilos you have still NEVER given even one or your terrible arguments or "facts" as to why everyone else should play as you demand?  Is it your right to instruct the world?

 

you have also never actually read my points and understood what i'm talking about... at least Miros picked up on the easy target I actually put there for you.. you still dont see it...

 

(and as for using "my stats are better than your stats" as an argument... rofl.. you have no clue .. no clue at all.. )



3kilos #75 Posted 07 January 2014 - 01:45 PM

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@DingIsHere, dude I can't be asked with you anymore ... do whatever you want to ... I just don't care !!! u quote me but u fail to read what u are quoting LOL ... how come Miros can understand very easy what I am speaking about and you can't ? Raises some question about your ability to properly read and understand the text you are quoting in the first place and it should trigger some alarm bells ... sorry to say but are beyond anything I can do to help you at this point ... 

 

And where did I say my stats are better than yours ? Please show me where I said that and used it as an argument to this discussion ... I just commented on the fact that your sig says Stats mean nothing dude I made no reference about my stats being better than yours ... so again please learn to read what you quote ... read, process what you read, try to understand it and then form an opinion on it ... this is the natural way your though process should be working ... which is clearly not at the moment


Edited by 3kilos, 07 January 2014 - 02:02 PM.


SpeedDragon1991 #76 Posted 07 January 2014 - 02:05 PM

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View Post3kilos, on 06 January 2014 - 10:00 PM, said:

 

Well when i see a big lemming train on my team's part advancing with no opposition towards the enemy cap I am usually in a state of horror cause i just realize the enemy has a similar lemmings train comming the other way towards our base ... at that point its clear its gonna be another shitty 300 max XP game for either teams so i will just position myself in a good overview position near our cap so I can at least get some defender points and hopefully delay their cappers long enough for ours to win the game ... shitty game either way 

Yeah, likewise. This is why I expect people to get on the cap circle and stay there otherwise there is so little chance of winning that it bares into insignificance, especially if the enemy get smart and cap the allied base.


Edited by SpeedDragon1991, 07 January 2014 - 02:07 PM.


DeathByDribbling #77 Posted 07 January 2014 - 02:08 PM

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View Post3kilos, on 06 January 2014 - 09:52 PM, said:

 

This ... i will copy paste again bolded

 

Most frustrating and useless are those instances where the lemming train succeeds. That means you can flank and have fun, the reason why you pushed the flank oh wait they've just capped 10k damage and credits wasted for multiple team mates, usually by some birdbrians that did 0 damage and who rely completely on team damage dealt boni to spice up their xp. They also cap in droves, so the xp they earn through capping is often only 5 to 10 xp.

 

Apply some logic here - you have a lemming train that means you have a team of lemmings.  That means they are probably not good players, that means if they do try to flank you'll probably end up loosing the game.  Chances are when attempting the flank, they'll either get stuck vs the first tank they come across or attack 1 by 1 and die, in the mean time the enemy team does the smart thing and caps.  Much better to take the victory and move on - get more xp in the next game.


Edited by DeathByDribbling, 07 January 2014 - 02:10 PM.


3kilos #78 Posted 07 January 2014 - 02:10 PM

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View PostSpeedDragon1991, on 07 January 2014 - 03:05 PM, said:

Yeah, likewise. This is why I expect people to get on the cap circle and stay there otherwise there is so little chance of winning that it bares into insignificance, especially if the enemy get smart and cap the allied base.

 

Well this situation is definitely in the category cap cause there is no other chance to win the game and as already stated in this kind of situations I support capping and I have no problem capping myself.



3kilos #79 Posted 07 January 2014 - 02:12 PM

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View PostDeathByDribbling, on 07 January 2014 - 03:08 PM, said:

 

Apply some logic here - you have a lemming train that means you have a team of lemmings.  That means they are probably not good players, that means if they do try to flank you'll probably end up loosing the game.  Chances are when attempting the flank, they'll either get stuck vs the first tank they come across or attack 1 by 1 and die, in the mean time the enemy team does the smart thing and caps.  Much better to take the victory and move on - get more xp in the next game.

 

Why waste the currently available XP just cause u might get it or not in the next game ? When there is a lemmings rush for the cap I agree u should cap ... cause otherwise they will cap, but if you are already winning easy and 1/4 of the enemy tanks are left alive and u cap its just a big waste in my view



DingIsHere #80 Posted 07 January 2014 - 02:29 PM

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View Post3kilos, on 07 January 2014 - 12:45 PM, said:

And where did I say my stats are better than yours ? Please show me where I said that and used it as an argument to this discussion ... I just commented on the fact that your sig says Stats mean nothing dude I made no reference about my stats being better than yours ... so again please learn to read what you quote ... read, process what you read, try to understand it and then form an opinion on it ... this is the natural way your though process should be working ... which is clearly not at the moment

 

View Post3kilos, on 06 January 2014 - 06:42 PM, said:

P.S. happy capping and let me know when your win rate will reach 60% please ;) or maybe win rate also doesn't matter to you also cause you probably just play for fun right ?

 

enjoy your 'tooning....






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