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Ten mortal sins of WoT


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Vestrick64 #1 Posted 06 January 2014 - 09:34 PM

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Since I just reached the 5000 games mark, time for a celebration thread with my boring opinions about WoT. Warning, wall of text!

 

And, by the way, I quit WoT, too :trollface: today, in fact.

 

In all honesty, the game wasn't bad, and I don't regret the time I spent on it. But the way it's plagued by many issues, it's simply not fun for me to continue. Perhaps if WG fixed those things, but let's be honest.. they never will.

 

  1. There is no „endgame”

 

Reaching tier X was a fun challenge, but I found myself having nothing to do after I managed that. Mainly because tier X is terrible. It reminds me of tier 2, only with a few different kinds of T18's that one shot you all the time. Once you reach tier X, you realize armor means nothing and everyone sees everyone thanks to retarded 400-420m viewrange on every tank under the sun, so you're bound to bush humping and hard cover camping to not get focused and killed first. Like everybody else... which means the games are stupid, boring campfests and people who get in the wrong place just get spotted and annihilated. It's not fun, it's boring, it's frustrating, and it gives you little incentive to stay at tier X. What for, if lower tiers offer this too, but at a much higher pace (less boring)?

 

  1. Armor is meaningless (mostly)

 

Honestly, if I see a same tier heavy, I just point my gun at the general direction of its weakspot and press fire. And I penetrate it most of the time. What's the point of having armor? Sure, sidescrape works. Being a hulldown T29 works too. So there are exceptions – however they are situational, ie. You can’t sidescrape everywhere and it works only if your targets don’t rush you or fire from different angle. In general, tanks don't have any issues penning each other. That's why people resort to real „armor” of this game aka stealth. Which leads to absurd amounts of camping on every possible tier – hard to blame people, it's pretty discouraging when you get focus fired and killed in 5 seconds in a „heavy” tank. If armor doesn't work, people just turn to guns and mobility (TDs mostly) and camp, since that is at least reliable!

Many people blame gold, but honestly, does a tier X TD need gold to autopen the opposition? no, it does not. At least I didn't need a single cHEAT shell in 268 and bounced only if RNG sent my shell right up a place where cHEAT would autobounce too.

 

  1. Maps are too small and revolve around chokepoints

 

With a few exceptions, the maps in this game are terrible. They FORCE people to go to chokepoints, because.. there's nothing else to do. Hills and buildings block you from shooting anything in most places of the map, so you go to the places where you can shoot other stuff... every time, and opponents do so, too. This makes games boring, with the same tanks going to exactly the same places every game – because there's nowhere to go to and be useful except for the few selected chokepoints. Such map design highly favors alpha, which contributes to the „pekaboo meta” in which the one with the biggest gun is automatically the most decisive factor. This, along with armor meaning nothing, makes tier 10 TDs so strong and perceived unfair. In addition, many maps have a LOT of no-go zones and terrain that's impossible to traverse, making it even more one-dimensional and repetitive – See the latest map, „Hidden Valley” IIRC, it's like the grand daddy of terrible maps.

 

  1. Spotting system sucks

 

Seriously, the „15 m behind a bush = invisible” rule should go away, ages ago. But it's still there, and most „blue” and „purple” players are simple bobs abusing the crap out of this. Because once you know the correct spots on the map, get some red barons to suiscout targets for you and reverse back until you're 15m behind bushes, you can shoot opponents all day long, rack up damage & kills, be safe and completely immortal. If you're playing something with big alpha, people will also fear you and the fear factor will make it unlikely for you to get suiscouted. Nobody wants to die just to spot you, at least most of the time... This further makes the game bad, because in addition to maps that promote static „pekaboo” gameplay, we also have invistanks that are impossible to spot without suicidal rushes. It also gives people with terrible reflex& coordination blue&purple stats. Meh.

 

  1. Medals are stupid

 

Most of them, at least. Why do they all revolve around luck so much? They should be in the same category as the „lucky” commemorative achievement. Take Burda – fine medal, but created when people played arty. Now there's nearly no arty, and 5 arty game happens once per 1-2k games maybe, so it's impossible to get and frustrating for those who missed the window of opportunity to get it. Billote/Bruno/Tarczay are just stupidly hard to attain and 100% luck based mostly because it’s really hard to live long enough to ever see 5 crits when armor doesn’t mean much when you doubletap “2”. Medals for killing opponents 2 tiers higher (Nicols, Halonen, etc) are frustrating because it's hard to get games with sufficient +2 tier targets in the first place, let alone kill them. In general, most of them don't reflect skill, only a massive amount of luck. Check Tamada Yoshio, for example – you need to:

a) meet 3 arties, all of them being 2 levels higher than you – good luck since there are so few arty players left out there;

b) have enough luck to not get an autolosing team because otherwise, you probably won't survive, even if you kill the arties somehow, and you need to survive in order to get the medal;

c) get to the arties – not so easy with 80% players camping around the base since it's the most effective way for bad players to do some damage and get some kills;

d) not have the arties stolen by your own team's artillery – pretty hard, seeing it takes a good while to kill an artillery piece alone with a tank two tiers lower – yet alone three of them;

e) survive stronk e-100 snipertenks shooting at you in progress, safe from bushes next to their base.

 

In other words, you practically need a perfect opportunity, a lucky situation that happens once per 1000 games or so and you can STILL fail and be randomly derped by an arty in progress (without aiming), which happened to me yesterday. And it's VERY frustrating, because you know you'll get your opportunity again.. after a couple hundred games at best. Yeaah. Fun.

 

I kinda wish the epic medals were something to be attained with superior player skill, and not super lucky, favorable situation on the mercy of RNG and stupidity of the opposing team. But they are what they are, and them being based on luck and opportunity makes hunting them meaningless.

That killed my achievement-hunting joy, to be honest.

 

  1. There is so much randomness it's not even funny

 

Randomness is frustrating. One can say that it doesn't matter in the long run, but no – it's VERY frustrating when your perfectly aimed shot goes out the aiming circle, while the opposing 300 WN7 terribad player just derps you without bothering to aim and pens you without even trying. It actually happens quite often, and is a source of massive frustration when it does. Because if you're a superior player, you just feel "robbed" out of something you should easily achieve due to proper terrain usage, angling or such - an advantage. But nope, you tried hard, your shell went right outside the aiming circle and the KV-1S you wanted to hit took 50% of your health with a snapshot a second later. How awesome.

 

  1. Matchmaking (tier based gameplay) sucks


I know I may get a load of elitist posts about this one, but being at the bottom of the list sucks big time. Sure, you can spot – but the higher tiers probably have 20-50m better viewrange than you do, most of the time (unless you're playing a dedicated scout but that's another matter). Sure, you can track... if you manage to detrack a guy before he kills you using autoaim with a single shot. Sure, you can „flank”... except nope, that doesn't work on the majority of the maps which are small and riddled with campers and dead zones. So, you're left with lame 2nd line „support fire”, usually with prem ammo to be able to pen stuff, you can carry the game only if you encounter total braindeads that allow you to kick their butts in a gimped vehicle, and you must happily take it in the butt because MM said so most of the time. And it does say so. A lot. And before you go with your elitism, admit it – you work your butt in your M3 Lee, play super careful, snipe, flank, and then, a 200 WN7 siemka rolls in his KV-1S next to you and destroys you in a single hit, without even bothering to aim. And you feel TOP OF THE WORLD. Except not.

 

  1. Too much frigging alpha!

 

Wherever you go, alpha rocks the house. Be it T18's derpcannon, KV-1S tearing you a new one or FV 215B 183 destroying your T10 med in a single hit, there's so much alpha and being „autokilled” in this game, it quickly turns old. It slows the pace down, it makes people scared of moving, it forces camping, and it rewards idiots who sit in bushes near cap circle all day long because they are always there to stop players from properly execute flanking manouvers. It's not fun to be destroyed with a single hit, and despite people's moaning, it's not just tier X that has this problem – all tiers do. I do however admit that doing like 300-400 damage with a 8-10 seconds reload in tier 10 must feel terrible in a world where you can get clipped for 3K hp faster than you load a second shell, lol.

 

  1. Team based to the extreme

 

Even great and unicum players only influence a couple % of games. The rest are pretty much „pre determined” when you enter the game, and not because of some conspiracy or rigging, but because of the amount of clueless people that play this game. The amount of 15-3 stomps is unreal, and it's not fun for either side to be part of such a game – and face it, even the best unicums fail when their team loses 0-10 after first several minutes. I personally tried to carry a tier X game with a guy from WMI clan (UNICA) and we just failed because our team melted down around us faster than we could pump their tomatoes full of lead. In the end, we got swarmed and destroyed. It’s not a game where a single player can actually carry the game reliably… heck, even two can fail when your team is THAT bad. of course if you're purple, you're bound to carry games, but that won't stop 0-15 stomps from happening, and when they happen, it's just a massive mood killer.

 

  1. WG’s “balancing” means nerfing to the ground


it's good to have some sort of control over OP vehicles, but WG knows no boundries to their „nerf hammer”. And it's not fun to dedicate yourself to a line, only to have it turned useless by a massive nerf a couple months later. It's especially bad if it happens while you're nearing the tier X you wanted or recently got it. It's pretty discouraging - what's strong at the moment may become utter garbage in a couple of months. Let's face it, it's annoying to go through hellish grind to get your dream vehicle only to have that vehicle turned to garbage in the next patch. It makes it a massive, frustrating waste of time.

 

 

So… can this game be fixed? Honestly, I don’t believe so… with WG’s approach, no, not really. Maybe in a year it will be better, who knows? But for now… nah.

I’m still happy I realized my goal (getting 2000+ WN7 in at least 50 games of tier X tank – I clocked 2002 average WN7 in my 268 after 50th game), and I’m glad I played the game, but for now.. I'm done :) happy tanking!  :honoring:


Edited by Yuri_Yslin, 06 January 2014 - 09:36 PM.


Britannkic #2 Posted 06 January 2014 - 09:51 PM

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Thanks

Slow_roller #3 Posted 06 January 2014 - 09:52 PM

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I like the pace. Cant stand fast games like CoD with all that running around shooting, and respawns, like a school playground simulator.

DogSix #4 Posted 06 January 2014 - 09:53 PM

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View PostYuri_Yslin, on 06 January 2014 - 10:34 PM, said:

2. Armor is meaningless (mostly)

 

This is what bothers me the most. I can live with the rest of the flaws, if I had no gold ammo and had to rely on my armor all those red tomatoes would call me a cheater. I wish gold ammo gets 25% more pen than the standard ammo but 25% less damage than the standard ammo.


Edited by DogSix, 06 January 2014 - 09:54 PM.


J00F #5 Posted 06 January 2014 - 09:54 PM

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5000 battles on alt account :badumtsss: 

Edited by J00F, 06 January 2014 - 09:55 PM.


Vestrick64 #6 Posted 06 January 2014 - 09:55 PM

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View PostJ00F, on 06 January 2014 - 09:54 PM, said:

5000 battles on alt account :badumtsss: 

 

That would be cool, but unfortunately, this was my first & only acc :sad:



Merdis #7 Posted 06 January 2014 - 09:57 PM

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1.There is end-game in WoT, it is called Clan Wars. Try it and you will probably change your opinion about game totally.

 

About campfest on TX randoms - it is an issue now. But it is all because of 2 things: to lesser degree introduction old unbalanced tier VIII arty (now it is X tier - 261, t92, typE) and mostly because introduction overpowered tier X TDs (which happened a lot later (august 2012)). Before these bad things, random games with X tier used to be very dynamic. 

 

2. In god old times (as in just after release)  almost no one shoot gold (because it required real money) and there weren't many guns with very high penetration using normal ammo . In fact there were only 2 (Jagdtiger's with 276 pen and insane accuracy and bl-10 with 286pen AP ). Oh, I forgot about T30 when it was a TX heavy. And that is all. Let's face it, it you have troubles penetrating any tank in-game while having more than 260 pen you are not so awesome player and have to learn about weakspots. 

Yes, we USED to learn about weakspots, that knowledge was useful.Nowadays I am observing a lot players who just load APCR/HEAT and try to autopen...

 

3. I agree that some maps need to be reworked. Personally I like old ones the most (malinowka, himmelsdorf, ensk, prokhorowka) and I think that they aren't so "chokepoint" focused.

 

 

 

5. About medals for +2 tier killing. Once MM wasn't so gracious and easy with +2//-2 spread. There was +3/-3 tier spread or even more(in beta) earlier. I remember when I had to fight IS-4 with my KV-1 (and then I couldn't afford premium ammo, because ot wasn't available for credits). So we had much more opportunities to fight +2 tier enemies.

 

 

6. I agree. I was very pleased because of change in accuracy (reducing RNG) and I hope that they will apply this to damage/penetration some day.

 

8. I can only repeat: in god old times it wasn't a problem;) Before introduction of autoloaders (with french tree - December 2011) game wasn't so much alpha focused. And I liked it more. There were two guns (apart from spg)  with 750 avg dmg if I recall correctly: 155mm from T30 and BL-10. And no gun with higher alpha (except arty). 

 

 

 

9. This is because nowadays average player is, we shouldn't be afraid to say this, rather terrible compared to average player from beta. When my team scored first 15:0 victory everyone was shocked, people was taking screenshot etc, writing to guys with damaged tanks to stay behind and so on. It was so unusual.

Today it is quite common to see battle with only 5-6 guys (out of 30) who understand basics of game, even on mid-high tiers. So amount of pre-determined battles has been increasing.

 

10. That is a serious issue. Nowadays WG needs too much time to react and then they are overreacting. 

 

 

 

So in short, bad issues listed by You were added to game AFTER its release:/ In 2011 most of them weren't part of the game. On the other hand, we had others, like lack of physics (Maus couldn't move wrecks of MS-1;)) and poor graphics.

 

EDIT: I read my post and suddenly I realized with full force how long I have been playing this game. It used to be totally different MMO:(

 

 

 

 

 

 

  

 


Edited by Merdis, 06 January 2014 - 10:42 PM.


Norrin_Radd #8 Posted 06 January 2014 - 09:59 PM

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Although you have many good points, after point 1 you just stay away from T10 and it's a much better game.

StatPadder #9 Posted 06 January 2014 - 10:02 PM

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Damn we lost one of the good guys:sad:

 

Take care fella



Vestrick64 #10 Posted 06 January 2014 - 10:05 PM

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Cheers StatPadder :honoring:, try out the T49 before WG nerfs it (confirmed to be up for reworks on FTR :sad:)

Edited by Yuri_Yslin, 06 January 2014 - 10:09 PM.


ThreeBee #11 Posted 06 January 2014 - 10:08 PM

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Yup sorry to hear u go :(

VSAF #12 Posted 06 January 2014 - 10:11 PM

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This post summarizes all " negative things " in this game atm :medal:

J00F #13 Posted 06 January 2014 - 10:20 PM

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I left ...  two weeks ago ? I dont enjoy this game. I cant even rely on team mates , lol :dry: 

 

Take care . 

 

GO, dota 2 , cod4 give more fun 


Edited by J00F, 06 January 2014 - 10:21 PM.


Ruzzki #14 Posted 06 January 2014 - 10:24 PM

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View PostStatPadder, on 06 January 2014 - 11:02 PM, said:

Damn we lost one of the good guys:sad:

 

Take care fella

 

Dunno why someone neg repped this?

Fixed that for you..

 

 

On topic, you have some good points there Yuri. By playing only 5-6 battles on average per day I guess I never find the negative sides of this game, or at least just shrug them off. S'all good.


Edited by Ruzzki, 06 January 2014 - 10:26 PM.


Tomu999 #15 Posted 06 January 2014 - 10:31 PM

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It was interesting reading this post, thank you for taking the time to lay it out before going. :great: I have to agree with the armour complaint, this really bugs me. In a game about tanks, which where created to protect their crews, armour is almost an afterthought. Not how it should be.  :angry:

StatPadder #16 Posted 06 January 2014 - 10:35 PM

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View PostYuri_Yslin, on 06 January 2014 - 10:05 PM, said:

Cheers StatPadder :honoring:, try out the T49 before WG nerfs it (confirmed to be up for reworks on FTR :sad:)

I have one thanks. I had to stop playing it because I promoted the crew to the m18 but I have a newly trained crew now so it's back to business. That is once I get bored of the Alecto.  Fun tenk. :child:


Edited by StatPadder, 06 January 2014 - 10:36 PM.


Sergeant_Antaro_Chronus #17 Posted 06 January 2014 - 10:35 PM

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You know except point 1, only because MMO games tend not to have an end game I agree with the rest of your arguments.  +1



Mymh #18 Posted 06 January 2014 - 10:41 PM

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OP; I agree with most points you make, been saying the same for a long time.
* But re-reading, I disagree on point #3 and #7.
#3 Map sizes are fine, chokepoints are fine, spotting range is not. Some tanks have to be slow and you don't want 15 tanks either basecamping or spread out so far there is no combat. Being spotted few secs into the game could easily be sorted by cutting spotting/vision/draw distance instead.
#7 And I disagree MM fails. It's equally bad teams for everyone, and if all face players of equal skill.. well have you played HoN? Every good player I know in that game is deliberately ruining for their team to lose games and drop stats so they can be owning scrubs. You also have the problem of; how'd the game identify who is good or bad?

 

Unlike you tho, I'm not going anywhere. What can I say, I'm a sucker for grinds and I really do enjoy maxing things out. Until I have unlocked, bought and kitted out (with crew, equipment, etc) every tier 10 in the game I'll not be done. And when that is sorted I'll go back to tier 1 and start to Ace Tanker everything I missed on the way.

 

Maybe in another 50k games or so I can meet you in another game, and talk about the failures of WoT. Until then I got some work to do. :)


Edited by Mymh, 07 January 2014 - 10:50 PM.


wsatnutter #19 Posted 06 January 2014 - 10:41 PM

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get your self into 7v7  its great fun

but well done and hope to see you back someday



Homer_J #20 Posted 06 January 2014 - 10:53 PM

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View PostYuri_Yslin, on 06 January 2014 - 08:34 PM, said:

  1. Maps are too small and revolve around chokepoints

 

With a few exceptions, the maps in this game are terrible. They FORCE people to go to chokepoints, because.. there's nothing else to do. Hills and buildings block you from shooting anything in most places of the map, so you go to the places where you can shoot other stuff... every time, and opponents do so, too. This makes games boring, with the same tanks going to exactly the same places every game – because there's nowhere to go to and be useful except for the few selected chokepoints.

 

I disagree with you on most of your points but I'm going to pick up on this one since it seems to be a recurring whine just lately.

 

What would you like in a map?  A vast area with many potential clash points?  OK, sounds great but what do you think would happen.  Each team would set up an ambush in a couple of positions near their base and wait until the other team ran into it.  The team with the least patience would lose.  And battles against 2 good teams would need a time limit measured in days.

 

The small maps work well because they channel people into predictable places, they work well because you know where the fighting will take place.  They work well because it is easy to learn the key positions.  Look at the classic maps which everyone loves, the fighting takes place in 2 or, very rarely, rarely 3 points.






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