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Ten mortal sins of WoT


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Nimmitz #21 Posted 06 January 2014 - 10:54 PM

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Don't forget about caping when the score is something like 13-5 or 12-3, bugs me the most :angry:

thewolfpack #22 Posted 06 January 2014 - 10:58 PM

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View PostRuzzki, on 06 January 2014 - 10:24 PM, said:

 

Dunno why someone neg repped this?

Fixed that for you..

 

 

On topic, you have some good points there Yuri. By playing only 5-6 battles on average per day I guess I never find the negative sides of this game, or at least just shrug them off. S'all good.


You don't get the point mate,



knoxySR #23 Posted 06 January 2014 - 11:12 PM

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Some of the maps arnt even full maps, the new jap on is half a map, the other half is a mountain.

Shaka_D #24 Posted 06 January 2014 - 11:23 PM

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@ Yuri_Yslin: Nice post and I must say I agree with you on most points, if not all. Some would accuse you of negativity and some will pick apart your points one at a time, but in general you're absolutely correct. I don't know why I myself keep playing, perhaps only because of the genre it represents and the games are relatively quick, but they're becoming far too quick these days and battles are no longer balanced at all. I don't want leagues or ladders, I simply want to stop being put on teams that have predominantly bad players against semi-pro's and vice versa. Matches are all too often completely one-sided. There's way too much randomness before the match even begins and it should never be up to luck to pre-determine who will mostly likely win the game before the first tank drives onto the field. This is what the infamous MM does all the time, simply by omission and not by design of course (I think).

 

I've started suiciding at the outset of battles nowadays because on most occasions you can see it all go wrong relatively early on and the maps are definitely all choked out. In the name of balance they keep changing tanks, etc (understandable to a degree), in terms of the economy they've nerfed income (partially proven), and their policy on player progression up the tiers is far too forgiving in that the worst of the worst players are able to command a tier 10 vehicle quite soon after starting the game or of course buy a nice tier 8 premium and in a game that relies on teamwork this is disasterous and laughable.

 

Some can laugh this all off, but I can't seem to shake the notion that finding fun in it all is becoming harder and harder and perhaps the inevitable is overdue. When WT Ground Forces comes out I'll try it but putting money into this game is a thing of the past for me, unless of course it's given as a gift from a friend as I've just been given for my B'day. I'll put it to use and enjoy it but as for spending my own cash, that time has come and gone. I've expected more and had hope it'd improve but sadly WG have lost the plot and are continously trying to rectify the dubious decisions and changes they've made. Good luck with your rest from the game.



3kilos #25 Posted 06 January 2014 - 11:42 PM

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View PostYuri_Yslin, on 06 January 2014 - 10:34 PM, said:

Since I just reached the 5000 games mark, time for a celebration thread with my boring opinions about WoT. Warning, wall of text!

 

And, by the way, I quit WoT, too :trollface: today, in fact.

 

In all honesty, the game wasn't bad, and I don't regret the time I spent on it. But the way it's plagued by many issues, it's simply not fun for me to continue. Perhaps if WG fixed those things, but let's be honest.. they never will.

 

  1. There is no „endgame”

 

Reaching tier X was a fun challenge, but I found myself having nothing to do after I managed that. Mainly because tier X is terrible. It reminds me of tier 2, only with a few different kinds of T18's that one shot you all the time. Once you reach tier X, you realize armor means nothing and everyone sees everyone thanks to retarded 400-420m viewrange on every tank under the sun, so you're bound to bush humping and hard cover camping to not get focused and killed first. Like everybody else... which means the games are stupid, boring campfests and people who get in the wrong place just get spotted and annihilated. It's not fun, it's boring, it's frustrating, and it gives you little incentive to stay at tier X. What for, if lower tiers offer this too, but at a much higher pace (less boring)?

 

  1. Armor is meaningless (mostly)

 

Honestly, if I see a same tier heavy, I just point my gun at the general direction of its weakspot and press fire. And I penetrate it most of the time. What's the point of having armor? Sure, sidescrape works. Being a hulldown T29 works too. So there are exceptions – however they are situational, ie. You can’t sidescrape everywhere and it works only if your targets don’t rush you or fire from different angle. In general, tanks don't have any issues penning each other. That's why people resort to real „armor” of this game aka stealth. Which leads to absurd amounts of camping on every possible tier – hard to blame people, it's pretty discouraging when you get focus fired and killed in 5 seconds in a „heavy” tank. If armor doesn't work, people just turn to guns and mobility (TDs mostly) and camp, since that is at least reliable!

Many people blame gold, but honestly, does a tier X TD need gold to autopen the opposition? no, it does not. At least I didn't need a single cHEAT shell in 268 and bounced only if RNG sent my shell right up a place where cHEAT would autobounce too.

 

  1. Maps are too small and revolve around chokepoints

 

With a few exceptions, the maps in this game are terrible. They FORCE people to go to chokepoints, because.. there's nothing else to do. Hills and buildings block you from shooting anything in most places of the map, so you go to the places where you can shoot other stuff... every time, and opponents do so, too. This makes games boring, with the same tanks going to exactly the same places every game – because there's nowhere to go to and be useful except for the few selected chokepoints. Such map design highly favors alpha, which contributes to the „pekaboo meta” in which the one with the biggest gun is automatically the most decisive factor. This, along with armor meaning nothing, makes tier 10 TDs so strong and perceived unfair. In addition, many maps have a LOT of no-go zones and terrain that's impossible to traverse, making it even more one-dimensional and repetitive – See the latest map, „Hidden Valley” IIRC, it's like the grand daddy of terrible maps.

 

  1. Spotting system sucks

 

Seriously, the „15 m behind a bush = invisible” rule should go away, ages ago. But it's still there, and most „blue” and „purple” players are simple bobs abusing the crap out of this. Because once you know the correct spots on the map, get some red barons to suiscout targets for you and reverse back until you're 15m behind bushes, you can shoot opponents all day long, rack up damage & kills, be safe and completely immortal. If you're playing something with big alpha, people will also fear you and the fear factor will make it unlikely for you to get suiscouted. Nobody wants to die just to spot you, at least most of the time... This further makes the game bad, because in addition to maps that promote static „pekaboo” gameplay, we also have invistanks that are impossible to spot without suicidal rushes. It also gives people with terrible reflex& coordination blue&purple stats. Meh.

 

  1. Medals are stupid

 

Most of them, at least. Why do they all revolve around luck so much? They should be in the same category as the „lucky” commemorative achievement. Take Burda – fine medal, but created when people played arty. Now there's nearly no arty, and 5 arty game happens once per 1-2k games maybe, so it's impossible to get and frustrating for those who missed the window of opportunity to get it. Billote/Bruno/Tarczay are just stupidly hard to attain and 100% luck based mostly because it’s really hard to live long enough to ever see 5 crits when armor doesn’t mean much when you doubletap “2”. Medals for killing opponents 2 tiers higher (Nicols, Halonen, etc) are frustrating because it's hard to get games with sufficient +2 tier targets in the first place, let alone kill them. In general, most of them don't reflect skill, only a massive amount of luck. Check Tamada Yoshio, for example – you need to:

a) meet 3 arties, all of them being 2 levels higher than you – good luck since there are so few arty players left out there;

b) have enough luck to not get an autolosing team because otherwise, you probably won't survive, even if you kill the arties somehow, and you need to survive in order to get the medal;

c) get to the arties – not so easy with 80% players camping around the base since it's the most effective way for bad players to do some damage and get some kills;

d) not have the arties stolen by your own team's artillery – pretty hard, seeing it takes a good while to kill an artillery piece alone with a tank two tiers lower – yet alone three of them;

e) survive stronk e-100 snipertenks shooting at you in progress, safe from bushes next to their base.

 

In other words, you practically need a perfect opportunity, a lucky situation that happens once per 1000 games or so and you can STILL fail and be randomly derped by an arty in progress (without aiming), which happened to me yesterday. And it's VERY frustrating, because you know you'll get your opportunity again.. after a couple hundred games at best. Yeaah. Fun.

 

I kinda wish the epic medals were something to be attained with superior player skill, and not super lucky, favorable situation on the mercy of RNG and stupidity of the opposing team. But they are what they are, and them being based on luck and opportunity makes hunting them meaningless.

That killed my achievement-hunting joy, to be honest.

 

  1. There is so much randomness it's not even funny

 

Randomness is frustrating. One can say that it doesn't matter in the long run, but no – it's VERY frustrating when your perfectly aimed shot goes out the aiming circle, while the opposing 300 WN7 terribad player just derps you without bothering to aim and pens you without even trying. It actually happens quite often, and is a source of massive frustration when it does. Because if you're a superior player, you just feel "robbed" out of something you should easily achieve due to proper terrain usage, angling or such - an advantage. But nope, you tried hard, your shell went right outside the aiming circle and the KV-1S you wanted to hit took 50% of your health with a snapshot a second later. How awesome.

 

  1. Matchmaking (tier based gameplay) sucks


I know I may get a load of elitist posts about this one, but being at the bottom of the list sucks big time. Sure, you can spot – but the higher tiers probably have 20-50m better viewrange than you do, most of the time (unless you're playing a dedicated scout but that's another matter). Sure, you can track... if you manage to detrack a guy before he kills you using autoaim with a single shot. Sure, you can „flank”... except nope, that doesn't work on the majority of the maps which are small and riddled with campers and dead zones. So, you're left with lame 2nd line „support fire”, usually with prem ammo to be able to pen stuff, you can carry the game only if you encounter total braindeads that allow you to kick their butts in a gimped vehicle, and you must happily take it in the butt because MM said so most of the time. And it does say so. A lot. And before you go with your elitism, admit it – you work your butt in your M3 Lee, play super careful, snipe, flank, and then, a 200 WN7 siemka rolls in his KV-1S next to you and destroys you in a single hit, without even bothering to aim. And you feel TOP OF THE WORLD. Except not.

 

  1. Too much frigging alpha!

 

Wherever you go, alpha rocks the house. Be it T18's derpcannon, KV-1S tearing you a new one or FV 215B 183 destroying your T10 med in a single hit, there's so much alpha and being „autokilled” in this game, it quickly turns old. It slows the pace down, it makes people scared of moving, it forces camping, and it rewards idiots who sit in bushes near cap circle all day long because they are always there to stop players from properly execute flanking manouvers. It's not fun to be destroyed with a single hit, and despite people's moaning, it's not just tier X that has this problem – all tiers do. I do however admit that doing like 300-400 damage with a 8-10 seconds reload in tier 10 must feel terrible in a world where you can get clipped for 3K hp faster than you load a second shell, lol.

 

  1. Team based to the extreme

 

Even great and unicum players only influence a couple % of games. The rest are pretty much „pre determined” when you enter the game, and not because of some conspiracy or rigging, but because of the amount of clueless people that play this game. The amount of 15-3 stomps is unreal, and it's not fun for either side to be part of such a game – and face it, even the best unicums fail when their team loses 0-10 after first several minutes. I personally tried to carry a tier X game with a guy from WMI clan (UNICA) and we just failed because our team melted down around us faster than we could pump their tomatoes full of lead. In the end, we got swarmed and destroyed. It’s not a game where a single player can actually carry the game reliably… heck, even two can fail when your team is THAT bad. of course if you're purple, you're bound to carry games, but that won't stop 0-15 stomps from happening, and when they happen, it's just a massive mood killer.

 

  1. WG’s “balancing” means nerfing to the ground


it's good to have some sort of control over OP vehicles, but WG knows no boundries to their „nerf hammer”. And it's not fun to dedicate yourself to a line, only to have it turned useless by a massive nerf a couple months later. It's especially bad if it happens while you're nearing the tier X you wanted or recently got it. It's pretty discouraging - what's strong at the moment may become utter garbage in a couple of months. Let's face it, it's annoying to go through hellish grind to get your dream vehicle only to have that vehicle turned to garbage in the next patch. It makes it a massive, frustrating waste of time.

 

 

So… can this game be fixed? Honestly, I don’t believe so… with WG’s approach, no, not really. Maybe in a year it will be better, who knows? But for now… nah.

I’m still happy I realized my goal (getting 2000+ WN7 in at least 50 games of tier X tank – I clocked 2002 average WN7 in my 268 after 50th game), and I’m glad I played the game, but for now.. I'm done :) happy tanking!  :honoring:

 

Dude sorry to hear that your leaving, I agree with all your posts except the part where shoots fly out of the aiming circle which is guaranteed to never happen by the game mechanics :-)

 

But otherwise you are spot on 9/10 ... specially true about the spotting system/flanking/teribad map desing/unbalanced tanks on all tiers and horrid random players with no clue specially in high tiers ruining the game experience



KptStrzyga #26 Posted 06 January 2014 - 11:43 PM

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View PostJ00F, on 06 January 2014 - 09:20 PM, said:

I left ...  two weeks ago ? I dont enjoy this game. I cant even rely on team mates , lol :dry: 

 

Take care . 

 

GO, dota 2 , cod4 give more fun 

Noooo!!... Why you go? 

Don`t answer, I know, I also feel tired.

I hope you will be back one day, guys. 


Edited by KptStrzyga, 06 January 2014 - 11:45 PM.


Homer_J #27 Posted 06 January 2014 - 11:46 PM

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View Postjinx_uk, on 06 January 2014 - 10:23 PM, said:

I don't want leagues or ladders, I simply want to stop being put on teams that have predominantly bad players against semi-pro's and vice versa.

 

So all bad players should get an equally bad player to fight against? 

 

What you mean is two teams of maybe 3 decent players who will hide from each other at the end because they know they make one wrong move it will cost the game and the rest cannon fodder?

 

All good players get punished by having 10 tomatoes on their team, every time?

 

All bad players get a good player to carry their game? (so even less chance to learn they are bad)

 

Or teams of all bad players fight all bad players and progress through the tiers as fast as good players without learning anything because they never see a good player?

 

I don't think you thought it through.



3kilos #28 Posted 06 January 2014 - 11:48 PM

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View PostKptStrzyga, on 07 January 2014 - 12:43 AM, said:

Noooo!!... Why you go? 

Don`t answer, I know, I also feel tired.

I hope you will be back one day, guys. 

 

J00F is just unhapy that he could not reach unicum stats :))) ...

 

P.S. friendly joke mate



Badvock71 #29 Posted 06 January 2014 - 11:49 PM

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View Post3kilos, on 06 January 2014 - 10:42 PM, said:

 

 I agree with all your posts except the part where shoots fly out of the aiming circle which is guaranteed to never happen by the game mechanics :-)

 

 

Sarcasm??

 

Seriously you have never had a shot go west? Jesus I am lucky if more than 50% of my shots hit centre circle these days.



HundeWurst #30 Posted 06 January 2014 - 11:50 PM

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i agree with some of your points but i dont understand the last!??!

 

 

you could only possible refer to the arty nerf which was needed.

 

ok they could have done it completly different but it still somehow worked out.

 

bad playes now do bad whether as goods still do good.

 

not saying it was perfect what wg did but still the effect of their changes did the right thing



KptStrzyga #31 Posted 06 January 2014 - 11:51 PM

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View Post3kilos, on 06 January 2014 - 10:48 PM, said:

 

J00F is just unhapy that he could not reach unicum stats :))) ...

 

P.S. friendly joke mate

He could if he wanted. We both know that once you reach certain level you can have any stats you want.



3kilos #32 Posted 06 January 2014 - 11:53 PM

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View PostBadvock71, on 07 January 2014 - 12:49 AM, said:

 

Sarcasm??

 

Seriously you have never had a shot go west? Jesus I am lucky if more than 50% of my shots hit centre circle these days.

 

No sarcasm ... all your shoots will land inside the aiming circle ... this is guaranteed cause the dispersion is calculated using a gauss distribution with the edges of the circle as limits ... u will never get shoots that fly outside the aiming reticle unless some kind of client-server communication error will show you the shoot is outside the reticle

 

This was written by WG when 8.6 was released and the new accuracy changes where implemented

 

"For Version 8.6, we have decided to change the distribution model used for accuracy calculations, by increasing the limit to 2-sigma. This means that now only 4.6% of shots will land at the edge of the aiming circle. That’s nearly 4 times less than under the old model!


We have also decided that the spike on the edge of distribution is no longer required, so the landing points for shells will be distributed equally from the center to the edge of the aiming circle. This means that overall there will be much fewer shots landing directly on the limit of the aiming circle. In other words, the shots will be more evenly distributed throughout the aiming circle."


Edited by 3kilos, 06 January 2014 - 11:55 PM.


DD_Zooly #33 Posted 06 January 2014 - 11:56 PM

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The killer point for me is the rolling over the enemy/getting rolled over as neither are all that enjoyable to be honest, I too remember quite early in the game (could have been beta or maybe just after) that the games were a close run thing and whitewashes were rare and noteworthy events.  I do find the tiered MM arguments quite entertaining as I also remember taking my PzIII against Maus tanks (not fun but more so than the situation we are in today),  I'm taking a break and not in any rush to renew my premium and not really in a rush to play either to be honest.

3kilos #34 Posted 06 January 2014 - 11:56 PM

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View PostKptStrzyga, on 07 January 2014 - 12:51 AM, said:

He could if he wanted. We both know that once you reach certain level you can have any stats you want.

 

well I agree and as I mentioned it was a joke :P



Vestrick64 #35 Posted 06 January 2014 - 11:56 PM

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By the "out the aiming circle", I was exaggerating a bit, since they don't literally fly out of the aiming circle. But, when shots fly towards its edge, or just "disappear", I get pissed. I asked myself "how on earth could I miss that"  many, many times after 8.6.

Shaka_D #36 Posted 06 January 2014 - 11:59 PM

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View PostHomer_J, on 06 January 2014 - 11:46 PM, said:

 

So all bad players should get an equally bad player to fight against? 

 

What you mean is two teams of maybe 3 decent players who will hide from each other at the end because they know they make one wrong move it will cost the game and the rest cannon fodder?

 

All good players get punished by having 10 tomatoes on their team, every time?

 

All bad players get a good player to carry their game? (so even less chance to learn they are bad)

 

Or teams of all bad players fight all bad players and progress through the tiers as fast as good players without learning anything because they never see a good player?

 

I don't think you thought it through.


The point I was making homer is that instead of one team having 12 tomatoes and the other only 2, perhaps it would be more fair for both teams to each have 7 tomatoes, etc. otherwise it's pretty one-sided don't you think?  If there are 30 players in a match, why should one side be saddled with terrible players and the other hardly any? The teams get set up my the mm as normal, and then a quick check on player ability / skill set / who knows to make sure that the teams have more or less the same number of less skilled players, so if one side has far more less skilled, then some are switched around. Platooning would be a problem here of course too, but at the moment there is nothing and something is better than nothing.

 

I'm not a pro at algorithms, but it certainly is possible. Balance the number of noobs across both teams, irrespective of quantity. I did think it through, it's just that it doesn't sit quite well with the way you want to play it. That's ok, you obviously like going up against teams predominantly red and perhaps you love the challenge of fighting against a vastly superior team when you have all the tommies in your team, it's not going to change in my favour obviously is it?  It's going to stay the way it is so you can achieve maximum results just the way you like it. So be it. No worries here.


Edited by jinx_uk, 07 January 2014 - 12:06 AM.


3kilos #37 Posted 07 January 2014 - 12:00 AM

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View PostYuri_Yslin, on 07 January 2014 - 12:56 AM, said:

By the "out the aiming circle", I was exaggerating a bit, since they don't literally fly out of the aiming circle. But, when shots fly towards its edge, or just "disappear", I get pissed. I asked myself "how on earth could I miss that"  many, many times after 8.6.

 

Well in light of this clarification I also must admit that I am pretty surprised when I just hit tracks while fully aimed at a tank 20m in front of me ... you should never miss from that range ... its quite stupid to be honest ... RNG should play a factor only on long distance shoots not when you fire from point blank range ... also while i agree with some RNG when we speak about accuracy I fail to undestand why we need RNG with the damage and penetration rolls ... ok +/-5% should be max for pen & dmg but nothing more than that ...I mean how can the same shell have 300mm of pen this shoot and 200mm of pen the next shoot ... its just ridiculous


Edited by 3kilos, 07 January 2014 - 12:03 AM.


toniks123 #38 Posted 07 January 2014 - 12:01 AM

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View PostYuri_Yslin, on 06 January 2014 - 11:56 PM, said:

By the "out the aiming circle", I was exaggerating a bit, since they don't literally fly out of the aiming circle. But, when shots fly towards its edge, or just "disappear", I get pissed. I asked myself "how on earth could I miss that"  many, many times after 8.6.

I started sniping with su-152`s derp gun....Works in more than 75% cases.



Badvock71 #39 Posted 07 January 2014 - 12:02 AM

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So unless your aiming circle encompasses the enemy vehicle entirely your shot Can appear to go west ;) accuracy distribution has got to be one of the worst things happening in game right now. I get that Shells are not all the same due to the vagaries of the manufacturing process but some days I fire a shot or two in the air to start just to make sure that something will be accurate....lol

 

*edited for terminology


Edited by Badvock71, 07 January 2014 - 12:03 AM.


ColonelBlimp #40 Posted 07 January 2014 - 12:02 AM

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View PostYuri_Yslin, on 06 January 2014 - 08:34 PM, said:

 
  1. There is no „endgame”

 

Reaching tier X was a fun challenge, but I found myself having nothing to do after I managed that. Mainly because tier X is terrible. It reminds me of tier 2, only with a few different kinds of T18's that one shot you all the time. Once you reach tier X, you realize armor means nothing and everyone sees everyone thanks to retarded 400-420m viewrange on every tank under the sun, so you're bound to bush humping and hard cover camping to not get focused and killed first. Like everybody else... which means the games are stupid, boring campfests and people who get in the wrong place just get spotted and annihilated. It's not fun, it's boring, it's frustrating, and it gives you little incentive to stay at tier X. What for, if lower tiers offer this too, but at a much higher pace (less boring)?

 

 

A more erudite leaving message than the usual dribble.

 

With regard to there being no end game, I would suggest that being bored of level ten is the end game. There is just no "Congratulations" screen.

 

I think that most of your criticisms are the nature of the game. Most players will inevitably invest less in a free game than one they spent £50 to buy, so It has to be new player friendly.

 

I agree about the maps though, they need to be bigger with less choke points.

 

 






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