Jump to content


New stats show what we all knew about the auf panther!


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
19 replies to this topic

Kyphe #1 Posted 07 January 2014 - 07:52 AM

    Captain

  • Player
  • 16253 battles
  • 2,115
  • Member since:
    03-26-2011

Many of you know about the new method of judging tank performance by comparing tank WR next to the player WR of the people who own and drive that tank.

 

It is a method that WG say they are going to start using and lets hope so.

 

Most people have posted graphs to back up claims of tanks being OP like the KV1s but i thought I would post this Auf panther graph as it shows just how damn underpowered it is though the method itself is still a little too simplistic ofc.

 

Apologies if this has been posted before in an existing auf panther thread.

 

So what are you looking at?

 

The horizontal numbers are the player overal win rate groups, 50 is the group of players that have an average of 50% win rate

The blue line is the average win rate of players overall, it is a constant as this simply tracks the groups progression from 30% to 40% to 50% and so on

The vertical numbers represents the win rate rate percentage of those same player groups when playing a particular tank,

The green line in this image tracks the average WR of the auf panther when played by players with the win rate marked by the blue line

 

If the green line is above the blue that means people are winning more in this tank than they do overall, if the green line is bellow the blue line that means people are winning less than they do overall.

 

The Auf-panther has one of the worst stats in the game using this method and that even the very best players on average can not make this tank work. from what I see it looks like top players soon give up on this tank and free XP past it if they need to or just sell it for scrap!

 

I would suggest that this tank stop being given light tank MM and be treated like a medium just like the Crusader and even then it is going to be tough to play.

 

I honestly can not see how this tank can be balanced as a scout even if they boosted the view range to 430.

 


Edited by Kyphe, 09 January 2014 - 03:03 AM.


PRO_MEMBER #2 Posted 07 January 2014 - 08:37 AM

    Major

  • Player
  • 22271 battles
  • 2,850
  • [ICYA] ICYA
  • Member since:
    10-31-2011
lower price of premium ammo, rof even higher! :D

Tazilon #3 Posted 08 January 2014 - 07:17 AM

    Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 966 battles
  • 1,746
  • Member since:
    03-31-2012
From where did you get the data?

WhistlerFI #4 Posted 08 January 2014 - 02:04 PM

    Corporal

  • Player
  • 29273 battles
  • 145
  • Member since:
    03-11-2012

View PostTazilon, on 08 January 2014 - 07:17 AM, said:

From where did you get the data?

Here I guess:

 

http://ftr.wot-news.com/2013/12/23/statistics-of-all-the-tanks-using-the-new-method/

 

 



Kyphe #5 Posted 08 January 2014 - 09:05 PM

    Captain

  • Player
  • 16253 battles
  • 2,115
  • Member since:
    03-26-2011
yes from there, it is the 2 year data as the full list is pointless for the auf panther

WhistlerFI #6 Posted 08 January 2014 - 10:25 PM

    Corporal

  • Player
  • 29273 battles
  • 145
  • Member since:
    03-11-2012

View PostKyphe, on 08 January 2014 - 09:05 PM, said:

yes from there, it is the 2 year data as the full list is pointless for the auf panther

 

It says: accounts created in 2012 and 2013. So this data is missing most veterans, who started in 2011.

 

So I think it would be better to see data which includes all info. It does not look quite so bad, but is similar.

 

I guess that this info is from Russian server, not sure though.



Longtomsilver #7 Posted 08 January 2014 - 10:28 PM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 20155 battles
  • 1,300
  • Member since:
    08-11-2011

From Veider answers on stream (December 14, 2013):

 

"- there will be LT changes in order to make LT’s more “action-oriented”, but not very soon. Developers do have a lot of plans in mind though. Developers want to make the LT class “self-sufficient”. They identify the LT problems as low vitality (survivability) and slow moving across the map because of the physics"

 

The Problem is well known but don't expect anything in the near future.

 

And while they identified the Problem as a global LT-Problem, they won't buff the AFKP before the LT patch.

 

So the only thing we can do is moaning about it and write our frustration in the forum.

 



Sikalisko #8 Posted 08 January 2014 - 11:10 PM

    Corporal

  • Player
  • 9527 battles
  • 117
  • [SOMO] SOMO
  • Member since:
    12-15-2012
Question: Why that blue line won't cut the vertical axis at 45? Maybe something got lost through the translation (or then I'm just too tired =_=)?

Kyphe #9 Posted 09 January 2014 - 03:06 AM

    Captain

  • Player
  • 16253 battles
  • 2,115
  • Member since:
    03-26-2011

View PostWhistlerFI, on 08 January 2014 - 10:25 PM, said:

 

It says: accounts created in 2012 and 2013. So this data is missing most veterans, who started in 2011.

 

So I think it would be better to see data which includes all info. It does not look quite so bad, but is similar.

 

I guess that this info is from Russian server, not sure though.


Thanks for the tip, i thought the 2 year list included all players for the two years, I have changed the pic to the full one



Kyphe #10 Posted 09 January 2014 - 03:07 AM

    Captain

  • Player
  • 16253 battles
  • 2,115
  • Member since:
    03-26-2011

View PostSikalisko, on 08 January 2014 - 11:10 PM, said:

Question: Why that blue line won't cut the vertical axis at 45? Maybe something got lost through the translation (or then I'm just too tired =_=)?


Yeah I think the blue line has been rendered a little wrong unless the description is missing something. I would have drawn the blue line as a diagonal from 45 to 61 on both axis



Kyphe #11 Posted 09 January 2014 - 03:13 AM

    Captain

  • Player
  • 16253 battles
  • 2,115
  • Member since:
    03-26-2011

yeah when looking at the original versions the base line is from 45 to 61 on both axis

 

http://imgur.com/fq3t2c0



Tazilon #12 Posted 11 January 2014 - 09:41 PM

    Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 966 battles
  • 1,746
  • Member since:
    03-31-2012
You might look at the similar chart for all the other scouts while you are at it.  It is nearly the same for all of them.

Kyphe #13 Posted 12 January 2014 - 09:07 PM

    Captain

  • Player
  • 16253 battles
  • 2,115
  • Member since:
    03-26-2011

Non of the tier7 lights are as bad

 

The WZ131 has a perfect line wr of players and wr of tanks match up all the way up

The T71 has an almost perfect line with a slight drop at the end and a plus at the start

The Type 62 and the 13-75 both have plus WR results for low av players and drop off for high av players with the neutral crossing point at the 53.5% mark and both of those are difficult tanks to get a high WR in but players who get 35.5% in both these tanks are only getting 51.6% in an auf panther

 

The auf never comes close to the average of the players who play it.

 

The 13-90 has a massive plus due to being used in company battles all the time where it is great.

MT is perfect

Chaffee is fine

The 64 is much better most of the way up

VK28 is poor all the way up but only by a less than a percent

The 59-16 is bad everyone knows its bad, but not as bad as the auf

ELC is worse at the high end and I think I know why, no one uses this as a true scout, it is either suicide scouting or hit and run TD work. This is the tank even top players play for shits and giggles but really needs better aim time to make it more than just a lot of fun.

leo is BAD but just a grind few people stick with it

12T is BAD but just a grind few people stick with it

t21 is BAD but just a grind few people stick with it

 

They come close yet not even the grind tanks are as universally bad as the auf-panther

 

 

 

 

 

 


Edited by Kyphe, 12 January 2014 - 10:15 PM.


Tazilon #14 Posted 13 January 2014 - 05:03 AM

    Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 966 battles
  • 1,746
  • Member since:
    03-31-2012

When you look at the graphs side by side, this is what you see:

 

WORSE THAN Auf P:

 

AMX 12t, AMX 13-75, 59-16, Pz38nA, T21, VK 16.02

 

ABOUT THE SAME as Auf P:

 

ELC AMX, Type 62, M5 

 

SLIGHTLY BETTER than Auf P:

 

WZ-131, MT-25, M24 Chaffee, T71, VK 28.01

 

BETTER THAN Auf P, FAIRLY BALANCED:

 

AMX 13-90, Luchs, WZ-132, Type 64 (although the Type 64 graph is extremely erratic)

 

Very few Scouts are close to appearing balanced!

 

One must also remember the Auf P was introduced as a grind through Light to get to the RU-251.  One must also remember the MT-25 and VK 28.01 include data from before their nerfs which artificially inflate their "scores".

 

I am NOT attempting to argue that the Auf P shouldn't be buffed.  I am trying to point out these graphs do not just condemn the Auf P; they condemn Scouts in general.  The issue IS known and Wargaming states they WILL fix it in the future .  Unfortunately they also basically say "don't hold your breath".

 

 

 


Edited by Tazilon, 13 January 2014 - 06:24 AM.


Defy #15 Posted 25 January 2014 - 05:11 PM

    Warrant Officer

  • Beta Tester
  • 7327 battles
  • 512
  • Member since:
    12-25-2010
Luch is definitely the best german scout tank, and one of the best scout tank in game. It also good as a tank in general. Main reason is probably because of the gun which has really good alpha and penetration. Its also unique gun on found only on Luch, Leopard and Ausf G. Now i have to wonder, i never played Ausf G, but this gun on tier 3 should be ultra deadly. Gotta try it :|

Tazilon #16 Posted 26 January 2014 - 10:01 PM

    Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 966 battles
  • 1,746
  • Member since:
    03-31-2012

View PostDefy, on 25 January 2014 - 04:11 PM, said:

Luch is definitely the best german scout tank, and one of the best scout tank in game. It also good as a tank in general. Main reason is probably because of the gun which has really good alpha and penetration. Its also unique gun on found only on Luch, Leopard and Ausf G. Now i have to wonder, i never played Ausf G, but this gun on tier 3 should be ultra deadly. Gotta try it :|

 

VK 28.01 is by far the best German Scout.   The Luchs isn't even the best Tier IV German Scout.  Give me a Pz38nA over the Luchs any day.(I know that isn't the popular opinion on the Luchs vs Pz38nA, but it's mine)



distrofijus #17 Posted 27 January 2014 - 09:10 AM

    Warrant Officer

  • Player
  • 30826 battles
  • 745
  • Member since:
    05-13-2013

View PostTazilon, on 26 January 2014 - 10:01 PM, said:

 

VK 28.01 is by far the best German Scout.   The Luchs isn't even the best Tier IV German Scout.  Give me a Pz38nA over the Luchs any day.(I know that isn't the popular opinion on the Luchs vs Pz38nA, but it's mine)

your 8 skill crew might be giving you some benefits others lacking. Have you tried playing it with stock crew for a couple rounds? (let's say 100%). Could you take out your vk for a spin with fresh crew and then compare your experience?



Tazilon #18 Posted 27 January 2014 - 09:49 AM

    Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 966 battles
  • 1,746
  • Member since:
    03-31-2012

View Postdistrofijus, on 27 January 2014 - 08:10 AM, said:

your 8 skill crew might be giving you some benefits others lacking. Have you tried playing it with stock crew for a couple rounds? (let's say 100%). Could you take out your vk for a spin with fresh crew and then compare your experience?

 

 

My crew started off as 50% basic trainees on my VK 28.01.  I am well aware of how the tank operated at that time.  If you read what I say about the Cougar, I tell people not to judge it until it is elite and has a full complement of gear.  



distrofijus #19 Posted 27 January 2014 - 01:28 PM

    Warrant Officer

  • Player
  • 30826 battles
  • 745
  • Member since:
    05-13-2013

I've watched quite a few of your older replays (a couple versions back) and you were using heat quite a lot. (mostly heat + some HEs).

I like cougar (not adore), but a lot of tanks with decent crews and heat exclusive are nice to play with.

Are you recommending heat too?



Tazilon #20 Posted 01 February 2014 - 06:15 AM

    Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 966 battles
  • 1,746
  • Member since:
    03-31-2012

View Postdistrofijus, on 27 January 2014 - 12:28 PM, said:

I've watched quite a few of your older replays (a couple versions back) and you were using heat quite a lot. (mostly heat + some HEs).

I like cougar (not adore), but a lot of tanks with decent crews and heat exclusive are nice to play with.

Are you recommending heat too?

 

 

Before HEAT got nerfed it was the smart ammo to use.  Now, HE is better than HEAT on a 105. I only carry 5 rounds of HEAT now and rarely use them.






2 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 2 guests, 0 anonymous users