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How to better help new players (ie. Knowing why, not just how)

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Lord_Demon #1 Posted 07 January 2014 - 02:30 PM

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I've recently realized that while a lot of the people in the forums mean good in helping the newbies, they don't always explain their guides enough. This can lead to the instructions being useless, or even harmfull in some cases. I though I might give few ideas for old and new players alike to ponder.

 

1) Angling your armor.

This is what players are often told to do: "Angle your armor, and it is stronger." Some people even go as far as telling what mind of angles to use. This is a good information. However, it is very short, and as such can lead to bad results. It is important that one understands the limits and vulnerabilities of angling.

 

Angling has it's basics in trigonometry (so if you are bad at math it might be hard to understand completely). Basic idea is that shell must penetrate more armor, if armor is at an angle. Angling your armor about 45 degrees will mean you get about 40% more armor. Angle of 60 degrees doubles the armor, while armor of 75 degrees is almost 4 times as effective. Effect goes up exponentially for steeper angles.

 

While this seems effective on paper, one must understand the limits and vulnerabilities:

 

Having your front armor in 75 degree angle to enemy means your side is only at 15 degree angle(15 degrees is about 3% more then normal). This means you are showing most of your side (unless you can hide it behind some solid obstacle. Any smart player will just shoot you in the side and pen that. Angling your tank to 45 degrees means the side armor is also at 45 degree angle,  and both are about 1.4 times the nominal value. But if your side is much weaker then your front armor (german tanks and british TD:s take notice), you are just exposing weaker side again. Angling armor works best for tanks which have similar armor in side and front. (or side and rear). If one is a lot weaker armored then the other, then angling should only be done in very small angles, to leave the weak armor at steep angle. Such cases are more like side scraping.

 

Other problem with angling armor is that you must know it's limits. I've seen few cases, where player positioned themselves nicely with a 45 degree angle.  However, in both cases they were driving a tank which had very poor armor to begin with.As I said, angling only adds about 40%. If your nominal armor is about 30 mm, angling to 45 degrees will not help stop a shell that has 130 pen.

 

2) Watch what experienced players do, and learn from them.

This is another tip often given to new players, and it is a good one. If one person knows how to play, you can learn a lot by watching them and doing what they do.

The problem here is that you must understand why they do what they do, and what it exactly is that they are doing. The pretty obvious ones are finding out where is a good sniping spot, where to shoot enemy tank and how to angle. These are the easy part to learn by observing. But there is more to this game then this.

 

For example: I recently started playing platoons with some real life friends. They can do what I do, and go where I go. But I've noticed for example that their driving routes are ones I would never take. They expose themselves to side shots a lot more(and not surprisingly get hit and killed because of that). And it can all be dependent to few tank widths, on do you drive on road or below the bank. I try to constantly limit my vulnerabilities, even if enemy is not spotted in area I try to position so that I can't be shot from there.

 

I guess my point is, if you watch a "good" player going somewhere, pay attention to not only what he does, but how he does it. Why does one avoid advancing on the road in prokhorovka west side, and instead drive through the bushes? Why does one not rush to kill the weak spotter on the other side of the houses near Malinovka spawn?

 

Another important thing is that not everyone can do the same thing: I've got my share of followers simply because of (I assume) XVM and "see what good players do" instructions. But if everyone in the team follows me, we just got a lemming train and an open flank. That won't help. Good players also tend to seek out opportunities for cross fire: they go to a position from witch they can shoot the sides or rear, or neutralize enemy cover. If everyone does that, then the enemy simply turns to face them. Flanking requires that someone is alive on the other side, preventing enemy from readjusting position.

 

Also note the roles of vehicles. I had a top tier heavy (tier IX VK45.01B) follow me close by in one game. He ended getting killed in vain, and sort of ruining my passive scouting (I was in 59-16, tier VI light tank). If you want to follow someone, try to pick one who has same tank, or at least similar one. No point doing what light scout does in your heavy.

 

Last, don't get so close that you actually are in the way. This is worst in passive scouting, where you should never go near the passive scout. Just make a mental note on where he is, and try that place sometimes yourself. Don't go near them. You might be spotted, draw fire on yourself and end up getting both yourself and your teammate.killed. Don't drive behind heavies, incase they need to retreat. Don't drive right infront of anyone, you either block their shots, or end up getting a friendly shell in the back of the turret by accident. And don't drive into their sides and scratch their paint. It doesn't do damage, but will ruin the aim and cause them to miss. If I must operate in close proximity to friendlies, I try to move same way as they do, and leave about half a tank width between us. This allows some movement. And if it looks like the friendly is backing into you, move out of the way first, then see if you can still make that shot to enemy.

 

Overall, watching the game is best done if you are already dead. Observer view allows you to see what one does, without interfering with their job. You might not have same tank in that game, but you can still learn useful stuff. It also allows you to change positions fast.

 

So remember, "watch" does not mean "follow them blindly at close distance and mimic their moves". You can watch someone from 300 meters away, and still learn, just as you can be right next to them and fail.

 

 

3) Know the role of your tank

 

If asked "what is the role of my tank", the fast answer is something like this:

-Heavy tanks fight in front line and take hits

-Medium tanks flank

-Light tanks scout

-TD:s snipe

-Arty supports.

 

I think such information is a very general, and also misleading. For one, it does not separate the different tanks in the category (Scout in AMX 40? Fight frontlines and take hits with AMX 50 100? Snipe with AT 2?) , but more importantly it misses the other important qualifier: What is your position in the battletier spread?

 

Let's take the KV-1 as an example. Now this is a tank pretty much everyone is familiar with, due to low tier and high reputation. So what should you do when you play KV-1? Well, it has a good armor, it is a heavy tank. So the common answer is "you should be in the front, fighting it out and taking hits (and hopefully bouncing them)". But what should you do with KV-1 in tier 7 battle? Now the situation changes quickly. Most (if not all) tier 6 meds will pen you. TIer 7 tanks not only pen you, but will take out a large portion of your HP. You can easily be two shotted. Are you still supposed to fight in the front lines, peek-a-pooing it out with heavies that outmatch you, while you trust your insufficient armor?

 

The role of a tank changes based on it's position in MM. In general, the top tiers should be more agressive. They are the real force in the battle, and should do most of the lifting. They should perform. If they don't it leaves the rest of the team more work to do if they want to win. Top tier meds and top tier heavies play differently, but so do top tier heavies and bottom tier heavies. Just know that if you are a top tier, you should be the main force, so camping in the base is not really a good idea most of the time.

 

Mid tiers are the flexible ones. They can still challenge and win the top tiers, have equal footing against enemy mid tiers and have an advantage against lower tiers.They can, (and IMO should) do anything required. If situation requires that they push, they should push. If situation requires they support, they should support.They might even have to scout. In a sense mid tiers are a bit like medium tanks. Jack of all trades, master of none. Note that "if situation requires" is not same as "if the top tier guy says so". I would say if they are willing to ask politely, it is more likely the case. Mid tiers should carry their weight. Doing more increases chances of winning, and helps others. Doing less puts more burden to other players in team.

 

Bottom tiers make a nice rearguard against scouts and individual meds who might try to rush through. Missing the small caliber gun from the front is not that critical, but having it shoot the scout can prevent base being capped, arty being killed or top tiers being flanked. Just understand that "rearguard" does not mean standing behind arty. Ideally you should be in position where you see approaching routes, and leave others time to react. Places where you can get back to base in time, where you can protect arty before it is spotted or where you can take shots to enemy tanks that try to flank your teammates. If you are a bottom tier tank, feel free to try something different. Bottom tiers are not really expected to carry the burden that much, so even if you fail, you will likely not cause team to lose. And who knows, you might end up doing the important game saving move. Just don't expect to do it everytime. you may die a lot before you get the great game. But each time you do, you should learn something. Just don't go suiciding in vain. You still have to do your part to win. Your part is just smaller the others.

 

 

Now how does this relate to the game? Well, avoiding fixed thinking is a good idea. If you are a bottom tier heavy tank, the general approach of "I should go to that corner and play peek-a-boo" against enemy heavies is not effective. First, you will be severely outclassed, if you will run into a heavy tank 2 tiers higher. And if you go to "the place where heavy tanks always go", the odds are likely you will do just that. Second, you risk being in the way. Too many tanks peek-a-booing in one corner is a recipe for a loss.Bumbing into others, ruining shots, driving in the way, blocking movement. Not worth it. Try to realize your strenghts. Maybe you are no match to heavies, but can still fight against meds even if they are high tier? Maybe see if you can find a route the meds try to use to flank, and ambush them on the way? Maybe you can guard that the friendly top tiers won't get flanked? Maybe you can even slip closer to enemy, and work as a forward spotter?

 

Same goes for all tank types. If you have a Matilda as top tier, play it more like heavy. If you have T49 as bottom tier, play it as medium or even as scout (passive scouting in this case). If you have a light, abuse the hell out of the spotting system and make yourself a real nuisance to enemy. If you have three heavies chasing you hoping for an easy kill when their base is being capped, you have done a lot. Don't get tied up inside small boxes of "heavies do this" and "TD:s do this".

 

Knowing your tank strenghts will help. What you can do and where you can go are those critical skills that are hard to teach. They take real playing experience, trial and error to learn. Consider your gun and strenght, but also your speed and manouverability. What can you do? The answer is never "nothing". You must adjust.  Adapt to the situations of each battle. This is why I dislike "how should I play tank X" type threads. Because the real question should be "How should I play tank X in map Y when battle tier is Z and team composition is A,B,C?" And even then the answer is a "it depends..."

 

So, think about your role, and your strenghts and weaknesses. Don't handicap yourself by limiting yourself into small box. And trust no-one who can answer "how I should play tank X" in one sentence. :tongue:

 

4) Crossfire and threatening.

 

It is no secret that most effective fire is one that can't be protected from. If enemy is behind a rock, that rock becomes useless once there are two tanks shooting him from different sides. Strong front armor is negated, when one enemy get's to the side. And rushing a defensive position can't be done, if enemy has strong support fire from sides.  Most successful attacks will happen when the attack is done from two directions, forcing enemy to reveal weakside to one part of attacking force.

 

Now how does this relate to WoT one might ask? Beside the obvious answers like weak side armor and negating cover by flanking the target, there is a  more subtle way to use this to your advantage.  If you are in position to fire at enemy sides, this gives you a great advantage. For one, you are more likely to penetrate even if you have a bit lower powered gun.  Second, you are more likely to be able to aim at the vulnerable modules and further hamper enemy. Hitting and penning turret sides usually puts gunner, commander, loader gun and ammorack in the danger zone. Hull sides enable detracking (with damage), engine, fueltank and ammorack hits. Not only are you likely to cause HP damage, you can really ruin a guys day by torching him, detracking him in open terrain or just putting shell after shell into the side of him, slowly draining his HP away. Last, enemies showing you their sides are often engaging other friendlies straight infront of them. You will help keep those friendly tanks alive longer, and thus help your team chances to win. However, even more powerful part of helping is that you threaten the enemy tank.

 

Threatening is sort of personal term I use, that I haven't seen it much on the forums. It does not necessary mean dealing damage to enemy, but can also be just threatening to deal damage. Threatening is mainly any action requiring enemy to focus their attention (partly or completely) to you without actually managing to do anything to you. Threatening will hamper enemy playing, and will temporarily reduce the efficiency of that vehicle. Threatening is most powerful when used successfully by lower tier tanks against higher tier ones. For example, let's assume enemy has good frontal armors but weak sides, and is engaging friendlies head on. You move to threaten his side(with a tank 1-2 tiers lower). Either he has to deal with you, by turning his turret/hull towards you, or risk taking damage from your shots to his side. However, if he turns his turret/hull, he will expose his sides to other friendlies he was engaging before. This means he can no longer play as effectively as he could if you were not threatening him. He must either withdraw losing preferential location, or stay where he is and take damage from flanks. Other examples is rolling back and forth like you are coming over a dune/hill or around corner, making enemy focus on you just in case you actually do come over. This is best done if you see someone is trying to flank him. If he turns to the flanking tank, you can move in for the shot. If not, the flanker will get a shot. One of the more commonly used threatenings in game IMO is in Murovanka map, when some players from north spawn drive to the hills in A1 - A2 hills, and others remain behind hills in B2-B3. This makes pushing forward from south very hard.

 

Threatening works best if you are at an angle (preferrably 90+ degrees) to other teammates attacking the enemy AND have a easy way to avoid enemy re-action (mostly meaning solid cover so he can't shoot you) AND they are spotted even when you are in cover(so you know if they are aiming at you or not). The person threatening enemy must stay alive (othewise the threat is removed), and be active enough that they require enemy to react on them. Remember, even if enemy is aiming at you, you are still useful if his gun is out of the battle. Specially if he is of higher tier, and thus more important to his team then you are.

 

Remember that threatening is pretty difficult thing to do effectively. Player must be passive in a way that helps team and active in a way that minimizes risks. But the payoff can be great. Whole flanks can crumble because of single annoying low tier that keeps pestering enemy flanks, and can't be removed. 

Also consider the scales. If you use a top tier tank to hide behind a cover while enemy low tier tank aims at it, you are not threatening him. He is threatening you, by temporarily removing a more powerful vehicle from game. (unless of course you can effectively shoot something else while behind that cover, then you are doing a good job :tongue:)

 

Threatening is a great tool for bottom tier vehicles, when player has mastered it. Sometimes, you don't even have to cause serious damage. Remember, even low tier tanks can annoy higher tiers by shooting their tracks to immobilize them, or use HE to cause minimal damage. This can be enough to get them to focus on you, and will help your higher tier teammates to finish him off.

 

Now, to recap. Crossfire if effective for eveyone. Threatening is a tool for those tanks that are bottom tier, is situational and requires more skill to pull of well. But both are very rewarding when pulled off. 

 

Now then are people still interested on my views and ideas? Feel free to comment and ask questions.


Edited by Lord_Demon, 13 March 2014 - 12:53 PM.


KKtwenty #2 Posted 07 January 2014 - 05:54 PM

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Setting up an angle is also crucial.  Getting permatracked whilst angling your hull and turret isnt much fun if you cannot return fire.  I rememebr some youtube clips showing how to set up a heavy (i.e. approach and move).  Was a good clip; ill see if I can find it again.

HE_magnet #3 Posted 07 January 2014 - 06:03 PM

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Thanks for the info and i know now why sometimes when i angle i still get penned even tho angle is acute..Looking forward to more from this post as its good to have things in 'laymen' terms

 

So keep up the good work kind sir as this forum needs people like you

 

 



IPaul72 #4 Posted 08 January 2014 - 08:21 AM

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Hello all 

Sorry to jump in here but if anyone is interested I did a little searching and to add to Lord_Demons excellent topic (thank you for adding the topic), I thought I would add some videos that shows some basics:

 

Armor

http://youtu.be/wq5S8CrsUig

 

Camo

http://youtu.be/5ML4oXjG6ag

 

Tips

http://youtu.be/UhAwWNpA1i4

 

Just thought this might add a little bit of a picture as to what Lord_Demon is talking about.

 

Kind Regards

IPaul72



Golem501 #5 Posted 08 January 2014 - 08:56 AM

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Nice one! +1 from me. 

 

Remember there is an "auto bounce angle". I have seen video's of artillery pieces bouncing shots just because they were wiggling / angling like a beserker... and they got a lucky bounce.

 

Also some tanks are designed as tracks. Example is the Churchill -> Make sure you don't go hull down (ooh that may require explanation), make sure you show your tracks is what I mean to say and then angle it so that they can not shoot your frontal armor weak spots. The tracks may go out but any track damage does not cost your tank health HP.

(If you're on the shooting side -> shoot the turret, near the gun).



Lord_Demon #6 Posted 08 January 2014 - 12:32 PM

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Nice to see people are interested. As promised, I will put another part in:

 

2) Watch what experienced players do, and learn from them.

This is another tip often given to new players, and it is a good one. If one person knows how to play, you can learn a lot by watching them and doing what they do.

The problem here is that you must understand why they do what they do, and what it exactly is that they are doing. The pretty obvious ones are finding out where is a good sniping spot, where to shoot enemy tank and how to angle. These are the easy part to learn by observing. But there is more to this game then this.

 

For example: I recently started playing platoons with some real life friends. They can do what I do, and go where I go. But I've noticed for example that their driving routes are ones I would never take. They expose themselves to side shots a lot more(and not surprisingly get hit and killed because of that). And it can all be dependent to few tank widths, on do you drive on road or below the bank. I try to constantly limit my vulnerabilities, even if enemy is not spotted in area I try to position so that I can't be shot from there.

 

I guess my point is, if you watch a "good" player going somewhere, pay attention to not only what he does, but how he does it. Why does one avoid advancing on the road in prokhorovka west side, and instead drive through the bushes? Why does one not rush to kill the weak spotter on the other side of the houses near Malinovka spawn?

 

Another important thing is that not everyone can do the same thing: I've got my share of followers simply because of (I assume) XVM and "see what good players do" instructions. But if everyone in the team follows me, we just got a lemming train and an open flank. That won't help. Good players also tend to seek out opportunities for cross fire: they go to a position from witch they can shoot the sides or rear, or neutralize enemy cover. If everyone does that, then the enemy simply turns to face them. Flanking requires that someone is alive on the other side, preventing enemy from readjusting position.

 

Also note the roles of vehicles. I had a top tier heavy (tier IX VK45.01B) follow me close by in one game. He ended getting killed in vain, and sort of ruining my passive scouting (I was in 59-16, tier VI light tank). If you want to follow someone, try to pick one who has same tank, or at least similar one. No point doing what light scout does in your heavy.

 

Last, don't get so close that you actually are in the way. This is worst in passive scouting, where you should never go near the passive scout. Just make a mental note on where he is, and try that place sometimes yourself. Don't go near them. You might be spotted, draw fire on yourself and end up getting both yourself and your teammate.killed. Don't drive behind heavies, incase they need to retreat. Don't drive right infront of anyone, you either block their shots, or end up getting a friendly shell in the back of the turret by accident. And don't drive into their sides and scratch their paint. It doesn't do damage, but will ruin the aim and cause them to miss. If I must operate in close proximity to friendlies, I try to move same way as they do, and leave about half a tank width between us. This allows some movement. And if it looks like the friendly is backing into you, move out of the way first, then see if you can still make that shot to enemy.

 

Overall, watching the game is best done if you are already dead. Observer view allows you to see what one does, without interfering with their job. You might not have same tank in that game, but you can still learn useful stuff. It also allows you to change positions fast.

 

So remember, "watch" does not mean "follow them blindly at close distance and mimic their moves". You can watch someone from 300 meters away, and still learn, just as you can be right next to them and fail.

 

 



Goold_se #7 Posted 27 January 2014 - 02:51 PM

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You made ut easy to understand. Thank you

classicnoob #8 Posted 27 January 2014 - 02:57 PM

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about angling your armour...yeah with some tanks that just doesn't work like T28 prot or IS-3

Deputatu #9 Posted 29 January 2014 - 02:44 PM

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interesting :popcorn:

Edited by Deputatu, 29 January 2014 - 02:44 PM.


FROMtheSKYwithLOVE #10 Posted 04 February 2014 - 12:53 PM

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The problem with WoT, WoWp or LoL respectively or any other game of such comparable extent, is too many choices - which are in fact the real obstacle in learning the game fast and effectively.

 

With selection of so many tanks having different stats and different usage, one can easily get stuck in low tiers of skill.

 

If one wants to really understand the game in relatively short period of time and use of hours spent on the battlefield to its best, I strongly recommend to pick a single vehicle (max two, for practical reason that you're dying a lot and fast in the first one so that you have something else to play meanwhile)  and stick with it for eternity. From masterful understanding of the vehicle you are using, will naturally come understanding of the game, and ability to recognize both advantageous and disadvantageous situations.

Opportunities will no longer present themselves to you, as instead you will become the one creating them.

 

Being master of one tank is far superior to being jack of the whole tank tree. Twas always thus and always thus will be.

 

Then again, only follow the advise if you're more on competitive side.

 



Lord_Demon #11 Posted 11 February 2014 - 01:22 PM

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Haven't had much time recently, but here is the next part. Hopefully peoplle like it.

 

3) Know the role of your tank

 

If asked "what is the role of my tank", the fast answer is something like this:

-Heavy tanks fight in front line and take hits

-Medium tanks flank

-Light tanks scout

-TD:s snipe

-Arty supports.

 

I think such information is a very general, and also misleading. For one, it does not separate the different tanks in the category (Scout in AMX 40? Fight frontlines and take hits with AMX 50 100? Snipe with AT 2?) , but more importantly it misses the other important qualifier: What is your position in the battletier spread?

 

Let's take the KV-1 as an example. Now this is a tank pretty much everyone is familiar with, due to low tier and high reputation. So what should you do when you play KV-1? Well, it has a good armor, it is a heavy tank. So the common answer is "you should be in the front, fighting it out and taking hits (and hopefully bouncing them)". But what should you do with KV-1 in tier 7 battle? Now the situation changes quickly. Most (if not all) tier 6 meds will pen you. TIer 7 tanks not only pen you, but will take out a large portion of your HP. You can easily be two shotted. Are you still supposed to fight in the front lines, peek-a-pooing it out with heavies that outmatch you, while you trust your insufficient armor?

 

The role of a tank changes based on it's position in MM. In general, the top tiers should be more agressive. They are the real force in the battle, and should do most of the lifting. They should perform. If they don't it leaves the rest of the team more work to do if they want to win. Top tier meds and top tier heavies play differently, but so do top tier heavies and bottom tier heavies. Just know that if you are a top tier, you should be the main force, so camping in the base is not really a good idea most of the time.

 

Mid tiers are the flexible ones. They can still challenge and win the top tiers, have equal footing against enemy mid tiers and have an advantage against lower tiers.They can, (and IMO should) do anything required. If situation requires that they push, they should push. If situation requires they support, they should support.They might even have to scout. In a sense mid tiers are a bit like medium tanks. Jack of all trades, master of none. Note that "if situation requires" is not same as "if the top tier guy says so". I would say if they are willing to ask politely, it is more likely the case. Mid tiers should carry their weight. Doing more increases chances of winning, and helps others. Doing less puts more burden to other players in team.

 

Bottom tiers make a nice rearguard against scouts and individual meds who might try to rush through. Missing the small caliber gun from the front is not that critical, but having it shoot the scout can prevent base being capped, arty being killed or top tiers being flanked. Just understand that "rearguard" does not mean standing behind arty. Ideally you should be in position where you see approaching routes, and leave others time to react. Places where you can get back to base in time, where you can protect arty before it is spotted or where you can take shots to enemy tanks that try to flank your teammates. If you are a bottom tier tank, feel free to try something different. Bottom tiers are not really expected to carry the burden that much, so even if you fail, you will likely not cause team to lose. And who knows, you might end up doing the important game saving move. Just don't expect to do it everytime. you may die a lot before you get the great game. But each time you do, you should learn something. Just don't go suiciding in vain. You still have to do your part to win. Your part is just smaller the others.

 

 

Now how does this relate to the game? Well, avoiding fixed thinking is a good idea. If you are a bottom tier heavy tank, the general approach of "I should go to that corner and play peek-a-boo" against enemy heavies is not effective. First, you will be severely outclassed, if you will run into a heavy tank 2 tiers higher. And if you go to "the place where heavy tanks always go", the odds are likely you will do just that. Second, you risk being in the way. Too many tanks peek-a-booing in one corner is a recipe for a loss.Bumbing into others, ruining shots, driving in the way, blocking movement. Not worth it. Try to realize your strenghts. Maybe you are no match to heavies, but can still fight against meds even if they are high tier? Maybe see if you can find a route the meds try to use to flank, and ambush them on the way? Maybe you can guard that the friendly top tiers won't get flanked? Maybe you can even slip closer to enemy, and work as a forward spotter?

 

Same goes for all tank types. If you have a Matilda as top tier, play it more like heavy. If you have T49 as bottom tier, play it as medium or even as scout (passive scouting in this case). If you have a light, abuse the hell out of the spotting system and make yourself a real nuisance to enemy. If you have three heavies chasing you hoping for an easy kill when their base is being capped, you have done a lot. Don't get tied up inside small boxes of "heavies do this" and "TD:s do this".

 

Knowing your tank strenghts will help. What you can do and where you can go are those critical skills that are hard to teach. They take real playing experience, trial and error to learn. Consider your gun and strenght, but also your speed and manouverability. What can you do? The answer is never "nothing". You must adjust.  Adapt to the situations of each battle. This is why I dislike "how should I play tank X" type threads. Because the real question should be "How should I play tank X in map Y when battle tier is Z and team composition is A,B,C?" And even then the answer is a "it depends..."

 

So, think about your role, and your strenghts and weaknesses. Don't handicap yourself by limiting yourself into small box. And trust no-one who can answer "how I should play tank X" in one sentence. :tongue:

 

 



smurfwedge #12 Posted 27 February 2014 - 02:55 PM

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Great post...thanks

Lord_Demon #13 Posted 13 March 2014 - 12:52 PM

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4) Crossfire and threatening.

 

It is no secret that most effective fire is one that can't be protected from. If enemy is behind a rock, that rock becomes useless once there are two tanks shooting him from different sides. Strong front armor is negated, when one enemy get's to the side. And rushing a defensive position can't be done, if enemy has strong support fire from sides.  Most successful attacks will happen when the attack is done from two directions, forcing enemy to reveal weakside to one part of attacking force.

 

Now how does this relate to WoT one might ask? Beside the obvious answers like weak side armor and negating cover by flanking the target, there is a  more subtle way to use this to your advantage.  If you are in position to fire at enemy sides, this gives you a great advantage. For one, you are more likely to penetrate even if you have a bit lower powered gun.  Second, you are more likely to be able to aim at the vulnerable modules and further hamper enemy. Hitting and penning turret sides usually puts gunner, commander, loader gun and ammorack in the danger zone. Hull sides enable detracking (with damage), engine, fueltank and ammorack hits. Not only are you likely to cause HP damage, you can really ruin a guys day by torching him, detracking him in open terrain or just putting shell after shell into the side of him, slowly draining his HP away. Last, enemies showing you their sides are often engaging other friendlies straight infront of them. You will help keep those friendly tanks alive longer, and thus help your team chances to win. However, even more powerful part of helping is that you threaten the enemy tank.

 

Threatening is sort of personal term I use, that I haven't seen it much on the forums. It does not necessary mean dealing damage to enemy, but can also be just threatening to deal damage. Threatening is mainly any action requiring enemy to focus their attention (partly or completely) to you without actually managing to do anything to you. Threatening will hamper enemy playing, and will temporarily reduce the efficiency of that vehicle. Threatening is most powerful when used successfully by lower tier tanks against higher tier ones. For example, let's assume enemy has good frontal armors but weak sides, and is engaging friendlies head on. You move to threaten his side(with a tank 1-2 tiers lower). Either he has to deal with you, by turning his turret/hull towards you, or risk taking damage from your shots to his side. However, if he turns his turret/hull, he will expose his sides to other friendlies he was engaging before. This means he can no longer play as effectively as he could if you were not threatening him. He must either withdraw losing preferential location, or stay where he is and take damage from flanks. Other examples is rolling back and forth like you are coming over a dune/hill or around corner, making enemy focus on you just in case you actually do come over. This is best done if you see someone is trying to flank him. If he turns to the flanking tank, you can move in for the shot. If not, the flanker will get a shot. One of the more commonly used threatenings in game IMO is in Murovanka map, when some players from north spawn drive to the hills in A1 - A2 hills, and others remain behind hills in B2-B3. This makes pushing forward from south very hard.

 

Threatening works best if you are at an angle (preferrably 90+ degrees) to other teammates attacking the enemy AND have a easy way to avoid enemy re-action (mostly meaning solid cover so he can't shoot you) AND they are spotted even when you are in cover(so you know if they are aiming at you or not). The person threatening enemy must stay alive (othewise the threat is removed), and be active enough that they require enemy to react on them. Remember, even if enemy is aiming at you, you are still useful if his gun is out of the battle. Specially if he is of higher tier, and thus more important to his team then you are.

 

Remember that threatening is pretty difficult thing to do effectively. Player must be passive in a way that helps team and active in a way that minimizes risks. But the payoff can be great. Whole flanks can crumble because of single annoying low tier that keeps pestering enemy flanks, and can't be removed. 

Also consider the scales. If you use a top tier tank to hide behind a cover while enemy low tier tank aims at it, you are not threatening him. He is threatening you, by temporarily removing a more powerful vehicle from game. (unless of course you can effectively shoot something else while behind that cover, then you are doing a good job :tongue:)

 

Threatening is a great tool for bottom tier vehicles, when player has mastered it. Sometimes, you don't even have to cause serious damage. Remember, even low tier tanks can annoy higher tiers by shooting their tracks to immobilize them, or use HE to cause minimal damage. This can be enough to get them to focus on you, and will help your higher tier teammates to finish him off.

 

Now, to recap. Crossfire if effective for eveyone. Threatening is a tool for those tanks that are bottom tier, is situational and requires more skill to pull of well. But both are very rewarding when pulled off. 

 



Helium_boy #14 Posted 26 August 2014 - 04:22 PM

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Your intentions is nice, but no noob will take the time to read all this. And if they are not noobs they will search wiki and find what they are looking 4. Try making more advanced tutorials like the videos you see in Science of Victory.

archeryadam #15 Posted 08 September 2014 - 09:05 AM

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I am a noob and i am taking the time to read this 

Dont throw everyone in the same box because they are a noob :)


Thank you very much for this topic i found it very helpfull 
i had discovered some but this added the missing pieces and added some new things to think about 

Talos_1821 #16 Posted 18 September 2014 - 01:40 PM

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i agree, with archeryadam keep on the good work !

 

all players and especially newcomers should first watch the wot videos !



CaptainDuckman #17 Posted 19 September 2014 - 12:05 PM

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n00bism is a state of mind. Being inexperienced doesn't mean you're an idiot, it just means you've stuff to learn. Sadly many people do equate the two, and thus the mass abuse of new players is created which causes new players to never become good players because they give up trying to learn...

 

Watching videos will only take you so far, and if you don't know which are valuable aids to learn and which are just people showing off their "ueberskills" (or even deliberately giving wrong information) it's as likely to hurt as help.

It can also lead to massive information overload.

 

I'm not a good player, I know it, I know why, and I know it will be a long hard road to get better. BUT knowing that is the first step towards becoming better...

Now to figure out which vehicles best match my limited abilities (poor hand/eye coordination, slow response times, often poor situational awareness/lack of ability to keep track of things around me) which are not specific to WOT but handicaps I have overall.

So I KNOW that zooming around at 80kmh taking potshots at things and hitting them while still not driving into rocks, buildings, IS6s, and other obstacles isn't for me... So I'm not even going to try. Though it can be fun aiming my T2 light at a tier 4 arty and ramming him to death :izmena:



CaptainDuckman #18 Posted 23 September 2014 - 03:13 PM

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View PostHelium_boy, on 26 August 2014 - 05:22 PM, said:

Your intentions is nice, but no noob will take the time to read all this. And if they are not noobs they will search wiki and find what they are looking 4. Try making more advanced tutorials like the videos you see in Science of Victory.

 

wrong. Wiki gives nice numbers and stuff but without explanation what they mean...

Of course only elitist fools will claim anyone who's inexperienced are idiots and noobs and don't want to learn, but we're well used to that attitude in WOT, aren't we?



CONQ77 #19 Posted 05 December 2014 - 10:12 AM

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very interesting post thanks Lord _Demon this should be copied and all new player should have an induction and use this info as a training manual, far more informative than anything within the WOT game its self. :smile: I'm going to use it and read time and time again to improve my game thanks.

Edited by CONQ77, 05 December 2014 - 10:14 AM.


Maxwellx90x #20 Posted 15 January 2015 - 06:31 PM

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View PostGolem501, on 08 January 2014 - 07:56 AM, said:

Remember there is an "auto bounce angle". I have seen video's of artillery pieces bouncing shots just because they were wiggling / angling like a beserker... and they got a lucky bounce.

 

When I ding shots because of this in my ELC in a tier 8 battle... I'd love to see the face of the one who shoot me... :amazed:







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