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FV 301 - will it ever come?

FV 301 light tank tree

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Pansenmann #1 Posted 10 January 2014 - 07:48 PM

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Hi all,

 

I saw a thread somewhere here in the forums about the FV 301

- 21 ton light tank with 77mm gun (based on A46) Project cancelled in 1953 -

but it is archived... LINK

 

As you all know, the (in)famous FV 304 is already in game.

This vehicle shares its chassis with a whole bunch of vehicles,

wich to my knowledge not went to mass production.

 

So, to revive the discussion,

how could a proper light tank tree for the brits look like?

 

The FV 301 would in my opinion be a great tier 6 light tank (scout mm of course)

 

additional resources:

http://arcaneafvs.com/fv300.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FV300_Series


Edited by Pansenmann, 14 January 2014 - 08:20 PM.


Dis4ster #2 Posted 10 January 2014 - 07:56 PM

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The brits still have no scout line, so just wait i think the chances are high that this tank will come to wot.

Edited by Dathdeath, 10 January 2014 - 07:57 PM.


Derranged_Koi #3 Posted 10 January 2014 - 09:19 PM

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Brits need the commonwealth line as well so it needs a scout line and 2nd med hmm interesting tank though 

SilentstalkerCZ #4 Posted 11 January 2014 - 06:08 PM

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The problem with the British light line is that it's not complete, the top tiers are very paper-ish. It might come eventually, but not anytime soon.

TheFuzzyOne #5 Posted 11 January 2014 - 07:11 PM

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View PostSilentstalkerCZ, on 11 January 2014 - 06:08 PM, said:

The problem with the British light line is that it's not complete, the top tiers are very paper-ish. It might come eventually, but not anytime soon.

 

How so? The top two tanks that are logically intended for it were actually made, one of them seeing over 3000 of its chassis made. The AV-R is the only paperish one there really is alongside the FV301.



Derranged_Koi #6 Posted 11 January 2014 - 10:49 PM

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http://wot-news.com/main/post/09182012/2 for an older list of unused tank icons in game, for a reference of stuff to be added... note the amount of British tanks not added as well as the french FCM's. So I would prefer they add the models already finished in game before working on new vehicles (I'm mainly sulking on the fact the Firefly and Sentinal's are still not available).

SilentstalkerCZ #7 Posted 12 January 2014 - 01:37 PM

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View PostTheFuzzyOne, on 11 January 2014 - 07:11 PM, said:

 

How so? The top two tanks that are logically intended for it were actually made, one of them seeing over 3000 of its chassis made. The AV-R is the only paperish one there really is alongside the FV301.

 

Which one would that be? Mind you, the CVR(T) (Scorpion) was deemed too modern and there are practically no data available on Vickers Light Tank.



TheFuzzyOne #8 Posted 12 January 2014 - 03:51 PM

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View PostSilentstalkerCZ, on 12 January 2014 - 01:37 PM, said:

 

Which one would that be? Mind you, the CVR(T) (Scorpion) was deemed too modern and there are practically no data available on Vickers Light Tank.

 

TV-15000 as prototype CVRT was from the 60's.

 

Scorpion being the top itself isn't even vaguely close to being "too modern", it emerged in 1975. Some tanks in the Chinese tree have equipment from the 80's. It's an unarmoured (In tank sense) basic metal box with a 76mm or 90mm rifled gun and torsion bar suspension. It ticks every WG box of their requirements. No smoothbores, no composite armour, no hydrogas, no missiles and no modern electronic stabalisation. (In its earlier models) It's basically an AMX-13 75/90 without the autoloader in every single respect.

 

To not include it would be nothing other than just outright spite on WG's side toward the British. (This is the same WG who also said that COMRES 75 was "too modern" despite it being a WW2 chassis carrying a WW2 gun and the new German line introducing gun platforms already just so they could screw over the British even more)


Edited by TheFuzzyOne, 13 January 2014 - 05:08 PM.


Hedgehog1963 #9 Posted 12 January 2014 - 03:56 PM

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The problem that we will have with the Brits and scouts is that they relied very heavily on Armoured Cars and there are no player driven wheeled vehicles in WoT.


Edited by Hedgehog1963, 12 January 2014 - 03:57 PM.


TheFuzzyOne #10 Posted 12 January 2014 - 07:31 PM

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Wouldn't be that hard really, there's some neat stuff could be put in. (Note, I would loooove to see some Armoured Cars in there)

 

Tier 2 - Vickers 6-ton

Tier 3 - Tetrarch (buffed over the Soviet one with the LJ)

Tier 4 - Harry Hopkins

Tier 5 - FV301

Tier 6 - AV-R

Tier 7 - TV-15000

Tier 8 - FV101 Scorpion

 

There's also a ton of other alternative tier 2 ones. Vickers had a buttload of different quirky light tanks! There's also the Light MkV that had a 2-pdr adaption once too.



Pansenmann #11 Posted 14 January 2014 - 08:18 PM

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The Scimitar would be nice too, but I think its too modern. (development mid 60ies?)

http://en.wikipedia..../FV107_Scimitar

 

 



Ishamel1 #12 Posted 14 January 2014 - 09:38 PM

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View PostPansenmann, on 14 January 2014 - 07:18 PM, said:

The Scimitar would be nice too, but I think its too modern. (development mid 60ies?)

http://en.wikipedia..../FV107_Scimitar

 

 

 

It wouldn't be too modern if the scorpion wasn't.  The real question is what would the RARDEN be like in WoT?  I have no idea of its capabilities.  Fuzzys list is probably what we will eventually get, buti would not hold my breath, you are looking at 3 years away probably.


Edited by Ishamel1, 14 January 2014 - 09:38 PM.


Ishamel1 #13 Posted 14 January 2014 - 09:42 PM

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View PostHedgehog1963, on 12 January 2014 - 02:56 PM, said:

 

 

Didn't use them any more than anyone else ....



Victorious_Nox #14 Posted 15 January 2014 - 09:57 PM

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Chances are we will get 2 more Light lines to supplement the "Cruiser" Line we have currently:

 

Lend-Lease:

 

Tier 2: M2 Light

Tier 3: Stuart I (M3)

Tier 4: Stuart VI (M5)

Tier 5: Chaffee

 

*Its rumoured that these lights will be in the same line as the VC Firefly*

 

Vickers Lights:

Be the same as what Fuzzy mentioned except the Vickers Light Tank MK VIB instead of the 6-Ton

 

 



TheFuzzyOne #15 Posted 17 January 2014 - 04:08 PM

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View PostPansenmann, on 14 January 2014 - 08:18 PM, said:

The Scimitar would be nice too, but I think its too modern. (development mid 60ies?)

http://en.wikipedia..../FV107_Scimitar

 

A 30mm autocannon at Tier 8 getting Tier 10 matchmaking? I...somehow doubt it. Scorpion with its 76mm and 90mm cannons would be far better. Although at least getting the 30mm cannon for counter scout hunting would be interesting.

 

 

View PostVictorious_Nox, on 15 January 2014 - 09:57 PM, said:

Vickers Lights:

Be the same as what Fuzzy mentioned except the Vickers Light Tank MK VIB instead of the 6-Ton

 

Why would you want the same tank we already have again intsead of one of the most influential vehicles of the entire inter-war period that was sold in its absolute masses to become the second widest known tank after the Renault FT? :p

 

I could see the Vickers MkV 2-Pdr varient at tier 2 as well, but it's more of a curiosity and was never a fully produced model. It'd be better as a gift tank.



Victorious_Nox #16 Posted 18 January 2014 - 05:35 PM

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View PostTheFuzzyOne, on 17 January 2014 - 03:08 PM, said:

Why would you want the same tank we already have again intsead of one of the most influential vehicles of the entire inter-war period that was sold in its absolute masses to become the second widest known tank after the Renault FT? :p

 

I could see the Vickers MkV 2-Pdr varient at tier 2 as well, but it's more of a curiosity and was never a fully produced model. It'd be better as a gift tank.

Yes but the Vickers 6-Ton was an "export only" tank, so wouldn't it make more sense to have a tank that was actually used by the British Expeditionary Force. Also i believe the current Vickers light is the Mark C so that still leaves the option to have the Mark B



TheFuzzyOne #17 Posted 18 January 2014 - 06:24 PM

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View PostVictorious_Nox, on 18 January 2014 - 05:35 PM, said:

Yes but the Vickers 6-Ton was an "export only" tank, so wouldn't it make more sense to have a tank that was actually used by the British Expeditionary Force. Also i believe the current Vickers light is the Mark C so that still leaves the option to have the Mark B

 

Indien-Panzer, Vickers MBT, MTLS...

 

Even if it's designed for export only it still stays to the home nation.

 

Besides, the British did use the 6-ton in a training role in small amounts. I'd rather have one that the British influenced the world with rather than an effective clone. At the very least make it the MkV Light just for some difference.



Eruantien_Aduialdraug #18 Posted 28 January 2014 - 02:29 PM

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Tier 2 - Light Tank Mk VI (16.9 hp/t. max 14 mm armour, 0.50 cal then 15 mm autocannon, 56 km/h)

Tier 3 - Light Tank Mk VII (21.7 hp/t, 14 mm armour, 2 pdr Mk IX (64 mm pen), then Mk IX-B (110 mm pen), 64 km/h)

Tier 4 - Light Tank Mk VIII (17.4 hp/t, max 38 mm armour,  2 pdr Mk X (78 mm pen), then Mk X-B (121 mm pen), 48 km/h)

Tier 5 - A46 (at best 21.8 hp/t, ~30 mm front armour. mockups had 77 mm, stop it in game at the 75 HV for balance? [2 pdr, 75 mm, 75 HV?], 65 km/h?)

Tier 6 - FV301 (at best 23.8 hp/t, 50 mm front armour, 77 mm gun [6 pdr, 75 HV, 77 mm?], 70 km/h?)

Tier 7 - TV-15000 (23.8 hp/t, 12 mm armour, 76 mm L23 [low velocity, HE and HESH], 72.5 km/h)

Tier 8 - FV101 Scorpion (22.9-23.8 hp/t, 12.7 mm armour, L23 then Cockerill Mk III [same as 13-90 but without autoloader], 72.5 km/h)

 

How does that sound?

 

(If the Mk VIII had been built with the same engine as the Mk VII it would have 19.1 hp/t).


Edited by Eruantien_Aduialdraug, 28 January 2014 - 04:42 PM.


TheFuzzyOne #19 Posted 28 January 2014 - 03:36 PM

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View PostEruantien_Aduialdraug, on 28 January 2014 - 02:29 PM, said:

Tier 2 - Light Tank Mk VI (16.9 hp/t. max 14 mm armour, 0.50 cal then 15 mm autocannon, 56 km/h)

Tier 3 - Light Tank Mk VII (21.7 hp/t, 14 mm armour, 2 pdr Mk IX (64 mm pen), then Mk IX-B (110 mm pen), 64 km/h)

Tier 4 - Light Tank Mk VIII (17.4 hp/t, max 38 mm armour,  2 pdr Mk X (78 mm pen), then Mk X-B (121 mm pen), 48 km/h)

Tier 5 - A46 (at best 21.8 hp/t, ~30 mm front armour. mockups had 77 mm, stop it in game at the 75 HV for balance? [2 pdr, 75 mm, 75 HV?], 65 km/h?)

Tier 6 - FV301 (at best 23.8 hp/t, 50 mm front armour, 77 mm gun [6 pdr, 75 HV, 77 mm?], 70 km/h?)

Tier 7 - TV-15000 (23.8 hp/t, 12 mm armour, 76 mm L23 [low velocity, HE and HESH], 72.5 km/h)

Tier 8 - FV101 Scorpion (22.9-23.8 hp/t, 12 mm armour, L23 then Cockerill Mk III [same as 13-90 but without autoloader], 72.5 km/h)

 

How does that sound?

 

(If the Mk VIII had been built with the same engine as the Mk VII it would have 19.1 hp/t).

 

I have never heard of this A46. Do you have a link to any imagery relating to it or some documentation? Also, why do you have the Light MkVI at tier 2? We already have that tank! The 6-ton or the MkV-2Pdr would be better served there. Both of those were also produced and used.

 

I'd put the FV301 at Tier 5 and replace the Tier 6 with the AV-R, that at least we have pictures of in planning with good documentation.

 


Edited by TheFuzzyOne, 28 January 2014 - 03:37 PM.


Eruantien_Aduialdraug #20 Posted 28 January 2014 - 04:32 PM

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A46 was the prototype of the FV301, it had a much smaller engine and was ~5 t lighter. And I had a c.r.a.f.t. moment and forgot about the new premium gift.

 

That said, I can find no reference to the Mk V having a 2 pdr, only co-axial mounted MGs (one 50 cal and one 303). Also, if we have the Vickers 6 ton it would have to be the Type B because WoT doesn't have multi turret support; hence 11-13 hp/t, 35 km/h and the 3 pdr from the Medium Mk I.

 

 

Edit: Just clocked Silentstalker's comment on how FV101 has been deemed "too modern". Care to elaborate? I mean, lets compare it to the AMX 13 90; The 101 is 8.5 km/h faster on the road, and has less ground resistance (about the same as an infantryman), the 13 90 has a better power to weight ratio by 0.6 (so barely noticable, but will help offset the ground resistance difference). The 13 90 is nearly 5 t heavier, and has more rear hull armour than the 101 has front armour. Granted, the 13 90 shouldn't be trying to ram or tank shells, but the front 40 mm means that only guns of 120 mm or above will fully overmatch, meaning that it can bounce at oblique angles of the front (I've had Leopard PTAs bounce off my AMX 12 t). It also means that artillery will only have to land a shell in the same grid reference to cripple the 101, and any tank can just load HE and go clean through (the only tier 1s with less hull armour are the Medium I and the T1 Cunningham, even then, it's debatable, the tier 1s have steel armour as opposed to the 101's aluminium). Regarding the gun, both are equipped with the same gun (90 mm F3 in French service, Cockerill 90 mm Mk III in British service), hence the AP round should be identical (170 mm pen, 240 damage). Using the L7 as a model, we would expect HESH to be ~120 mm pen, and British HE to be ~70 mm pen with damages equal to the existing HE damage for this gun (320 average damage. Penetrations for the APCR and HE on the 13 90 are 248 mm and 45 mm). I wouldn't ask for special accuracy and aim time bonuses like the Leopard I gets, so the accuracy would be 0.38 and the aim time 3 seconds like the 13 90 with a RoF similar to the 13 90's sustained rate (~6.5 r/min). Now, I haven't got any data for turret or track traverse speeds for the 101, but with regards balance I can't see any need for them to be far adrift from the 13 90's (46 deg/s turret, 40 deg/s track).


Edited by Eruantien_Aduialdraug, 28 January 2014 - 05:19 PM.





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