Jump to content


Scout with MT-25 in a Tier 10 battle?


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
22 replies to this topic

big_ipaq #1 Posted 20 January 2014 - 07:29 AM

    Lance-corporal

  • Player
  • 21080 battles
  • 80
  • Member since:
    11-29-2013

I am trying to learn the art of scouting, playing, reading and watching others play, especially Tazilon.

 

I have VK 28.01, Type 64 and MT-25 with somewhat good skilled crews. I want to get these beyond 3rd skill.

 

However, I've found myself lately with my MT-25 in some battles, more than a lot actually, where there is no fun. I am sure I am the cause of this and my lack of knowledge, but the more such battles I undertake, the more puzzled I am.

 

How to scout with my MT-25 in a Tier 10 game on Mountain Pass? Actually with MT-25 you cannot pen almost no one, even from the rear or in weak spots. But you never get to see weak spots anyway... You're dead in one-shot from everyone.

 

Many maps have no spots to hide, so what is the role of a MT-25 in such battles?

 

Maps, just to list a few:

- Mountain Pass

- Siegfried Line

- Himmelsdorf

- Lakeville

 

just to name a few, but there are more... OK, there are scout friendly maps, but MT-25 view range and camo values are well under Tier X mediums and heavies, so what's the point. Please someone enlighten me... Same goes for VK 28.01... Watching Tazilon replays I cannot find such battles. Why these scouting tanks get such MM? What is the point? Free experience to those shooting the scouts?

 

No arty kills, no spotting, no hiding... Support a Tier 10 tank killing another Tier 10 tank, with my gun? Maybe telling jokes hoping Tier 10 will die laughing.

 

What is worse, is that Tazilon for example has absolutely no videos of such spotting battles (at least I could not find these yet, maybe Tazilon will read and correct me) where a MT-25 is scout on a Tier 10 battle in such maps.

 

Where to start? What to try to do? I got Mountain Pass, where all paths where having Tier X tanks engaged with TDs in the back. There is no way, a scout could pass through anywhere and if he tries, he will die before he spots anyone. Rhm.Borsig or WT auf. E100 will oneshot MT-25 before you know it.

 

 

Any advise will be highly apreciated.

 



ParEx #2 Posted 20 January 2014 - 07:54 AM

    Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 18013 battles
  • 1,624
  • Member since:
    02-19-2011

View Postbig_ipaq, on 20 January 2014 - 07:29 AM, said:

How to scout with my MT-25 in a Tier 10 game on Mountain Pass? Actually with MT-25 you cannot pen almost no one, even from the rear or in weak spots. But you never get to see weak spots anyway... You're dead in one-shot from everyone.

 

There is your mistake. Scouting doesnt mean penning Tier10s.

 

Plus accordung to your statement

View Postbig_ipaq, on 20 January 2014 - 07:29 AM, said:

. OK, there are scout friendly maps, but MT-25 view range and camo values are well under Tier X mediums and heavies, so what's the point.

 Thats wrong in almost every way. You did not understand game mechanics and spotting.

 

 

Read more. Like guides like this: http://www.worldofta...ing-guide.shtml

 

 


Edited by ParEx, 20 January 2014 - 07:59 AM.


big_ipaq #3 Posted 20 January 2014 - 08:54 AM

    Lance-corporal

  • Player
  • 21080 battles
  • 80
  • Member since:
    11-29-2013

I read that guide and know it by heart. Where exactly my statements contradict anything there? I got A Master Ace on my VK 28.01 that proves I understand very well the mechanics. The subject of my post was completely completely different, and if you don't bother reading please just ignore my posts don't start flames with stupid answers.

 

For the more challenged ones... I will resume my post... What to do with MT-25 in a Tier 10 battle on a map like Mountain Pass.

 

 

 

 



ParEx #4 Posted 20 January 2014 - 09:10 AM

    Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 18013 battles
  • 1,624
  • Member since:
    02-19-2011

View Postbig_ipaq, on 20 January 2014 - 08:54 AM, said:

I read that guide and know it by heart. Where exactly my statements contradict anything there? I got A Master Ace on my VK 28.01 that proves I understand very well the mechanics. The subject of my post was completely completely different, and if you don't bother reading please just ignore my posts don't start flames with stupid answers.

 

For the more challenged ones... I will resume my post... What to do with MT-25 in a Tier 10 battle on a map like Mountain Pass.

 

 

 

 


Masterbadge doesnt prove you understand your gaming. Some players get masterbadge after 1000 stupid battles by having just one lucky one.

Some complains why I said you didnt understand the role of scouting were:

1) you cannot pen Tier10s

2) your viewrande is not enough

3) your camo is not enough

 

If you believe these 3 statements to be true, then scouting is not the right job for you. And Light tanks not the ones you favour. Play meds instead then.

 

Infact, MT25 has not the best viewrange. But it is small and  very agile.

I didnt play it, but standart setup for scouts should be:

Vents, Optics then Camonet or Binocs

 

Skills Camo, Sixt sense and everything that improves mobility and viewrange.

With these and rations you should easily get above the 420m viewrange a Tier10 Tank has max without equipment.

Adding your high basic camo value and the camo skill he will not be able to spot you.

I bet a standing MT25 with Camo Skill and Camonet in a bush is not spotable above 100m distance.

 

 



big_ipaq #5 Posted 20 January 2014 - 09:32 AM

    Lance-corporal

  • Player
  • 21080 battles
  • 80
  • Member since:
    11-29-2013

So even if I resumed my problem for the more challenged ones, you still reply to different issues I never raised in my post? Are you really reading my question?

 

Leaving aside this, I really really need to answer to your points...

 

1. I never said me or anybody else would want to pen Tier 10. I've said you cannot anyway, which us a big difference.

2. and 3 just proves your ignorance. There are T9 and T10 mediums almost as fast and manoeuvrable as MT-25 and they are not called scouts. But they have big guns, view range, camouflage and similar mobility.

 

Anyway, why bother replying here if you never drove an MT-25? Useless posts don't count for anything, just so you know...

 

MT-25 is not small. It is agile, but in no way small nor light. Again this proves your ignorance.

 



ParEx #6 Posted 20 January 2014 - 09:48 AM

    Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 18013 battles
  • 1,624
  • Member since:
    02-19-2011

View Postbig_ipaq, on 20 January 2014 - 09:32 AM, said:

So even if I resumed my problem for the more challenged ones, you still reply to different issues I never raised in my post? Are you really reading my question?

 

Leaving aside this, I really really need to answer to your points...

 

1. I never said me or anybody else would want to pen Tier 10. I've said you cannot anyway, which us a big difference.

2. and 3 just proves your ignorance. There are T9 and T10 mediums almost as fast and manoeuvrable as MT-25 and they are not called scouts. But they have big guns, view range, camouflage and similar mobility.

 

Anyway, why bother replying here if you never drove an MT-25? Useless posts don't count for anything, just so you know...

 

MT-25 is not small. It is agile, but in no way small nor light. Again this proves your ignorance.

 

My ignorenace. Well.

 

You should check the camovalues and agility of the MT25 and Tier10 Meds before calling someone ignorant.

But party on. Have fun, Im done here.

 



LameTactics #7 Posted 21 January 2014 - 09:07 AM

    Private

  • Player
  • 31329 battles
  • 16
  • Member since:
    01-29-2013

Tier Xs are hard to penetrate but thats not the question for you in a scout tank, as ParEx told you. Your role is to be the eye of your team. But this is challenging on some chokepoint maps like Moutain Pass or Abbey or Lakeville. Dont rush forward in these narrow funnels since you cant turn fast enough if you encounter enemy tanks. You are dead in no time. Instead get a position where you can use your view range (which is in the middle of Mountain Pass or Lakeville i.e.) and stay alive.

 

If your team manages to break through in on way follow them and help your guys by distracting enemy tanks on the other flanks and shooting their rear side (you can pen almost all tier IX from behind). Or try to cap the base to force the enemy team to detach tanks in order to save the base, but dont get caught and run away in time. In late game a flanking/capping light tank can be crucial.

 

If your team fails to break through and you lose the battle then its mostly not your fault as a scout since these maps are just scout unfriendly. But that means your team has much higher expectations on you on open maps like Malinovka. ;) (Siegfried Line is an ok map for scouts btw)

 

Camo of the MT25 is good enough to stay undetected 300m in the open without net, viewrange with all the gear and stuff is enough to hit the 445m maximum on the move

I run my MT25 with camo paint optics binos vents and food + the scout crew skills

 

Hope it helps... :)



big_ipaq #8 Posted 22 January 2014 - 10:04 AM

    Lance-corporal

  • Player
  • 21080 battles
  • 80
  • Member since:
    11-29-2013

LameTactics, thanks for your reply...

 

I did not said about penetration for fighting, but in a situation where you can harass from behind a tank, would be useful to have something that can penetrate from behind, which in MOST cases is not true. You cannot. I tried to track a Tier 10 TD from a side and could not in 5 shots.

 

Example, Ruinberg Tier 10 battle today with my VK 28.01. I've made a run at end of the battle from our base to get the arty, we were leading 7-2. A BC 25t at around 200 m behind me spotted me, left what he was engaged in, chased me and in NO time got me, with superior speed and mobility and shot me. Free experience no fuss. Then before getting killed he got another shots or two for damage in Tier 10 or Tier 9 tanks... Why fight another Tier 10, when you get a kill and 600 dmg for free chasing a helpless and useless Tier VI tank?. And I was helpless as far as mobility is concerned and fire-power. He KNEW I cannot outrun him in no way and he one shots me. He KNEW I cannot do ANY damage whatsoever, not even de-track him. So, even if Ruinberg is ALMOST ok as a scouting map (8.10 map changes, destroyed a lot of bushes used by scouts, see Ruinberg and Ensk I know of), basically you are helpless.

 

AND IF someone has videos or replays to prove otherwise I am most interested to see them. Tazilon, does have lately only low tier IV scouting videos in tier VI games, which is not what I talk about.

 

About 70% of my VK 28.01, MT-25 or Type 64 are in maps not friendly for scouting in mostly Tier 10 games and few Tier 9 ones and even fewer Tier 8 games.

 

Basically what this means, THESE ARE NOT tier VI tanks, are tier VIII tanks with mobility, view range, camo values, and firepower of a tier VI light tank. USELESS.

 

And if there are SO many games you are useless, and so many maps not scout friendly, I find that these tanks are not fun and no point playing them. 

 

But... With all these, I still hope I am wrong and someone can show me different, proving that I do something wrong and pointing out how they do it. BC 25 T T10 medium is a way better scout than VK 28.01 or any other Tier 6 light.

 

Maybe I am missing something.

 

Block Quote

which is in the middle of Mountain Pass or Lakeville i.e.

 

If you have a Tier 10 reply of doing this in a Tier 10 game, please show it to me. This is NOT true. WT auf E 100 sees you before anything and kills you with one shot and few more to spare. Even T8 RHM. Borsig with a good player does that, no need for a Tier 10 TD...

 

And in Mountain Pass in the middle? Hope you are kidding... You die instantly. And nowhere to hide or use low mobility of your poor scout in such tier game...

 

Can is a solution, but in most maps, the one rushing to decap will insta-kill you.

 

What fun is a tank in which you MAY have a small role ONE in 20 games? MAYBE... Maybe even little fun 1 in 30 games, If you are lucky. Rest are all frustration and feeling of useless and wasting time.

 



LameTactics #9 Posted 23 January 2014 - 07:47 PM

    Private

  • Player
  • 31329 battles
  • 16
  • Member since:
    01-29-2013

Nah, you are not useless. I will try to find some of my replays (not the kind of hero games, just some normal games for me). Most important for me is to win the battle at the end, no matter if I survive or do any damage.

 

Most heavies will target the easy to kill scouts, thats true. But you can exploit this by luring them into the fire of your team or as a distraction tactic. As long as they shoot you and fail to hit, they cant shoot your teams big tanks. Make them greedy. And thats where your evasion skills come into play.

If you are in the open, stay at the 300m safe distance to the visible and the suspected tank positions. You always have to keep your escape route in mind. If you go in the active scout mode, you need speed and/or cover from ground depressions.

 

At Mountain Pass I didnt mean to rush the middle, stay at your side and show your team what tanks are moving to the valley right side. Binos can do that. Thats all you can do for spotting at this map. If one route is cleared, you can go in. You depend heavily on your teams first engagements on this map.

 



Pensionist #10 Posted 23 January 2014 - 09:01 PM

    Lance-corporal

  • Player
  • 43667 battles
  • 89
  • Member since:
    02-23-2012

that you may die soon is kind of the risky job description - better than the batman who should carry the game. i am a typical average guy, so i try to keep things simple and manageable for my skill - so no pro advise here :-).

 

mountainpass: if you play northside i would rush my mt25 asap to the g5 slope (and tell your team what you are doing). normally you stop the whole flank (they want to get hold of h3 and develop push further from there) and they eat nice damage trying to kill you (el halluf style). often you are lucky and spot tds for the arty at h9 too and give information to the team which tanks are going for the bridge. most times you will die there in a minute or 2 peeking repeatedly over the slope but that's more than enough time for your team to get the advantage for a victory. will it always work out? NOPE - would be boring anyway. my point is: bushscouting, driving around like crazy or making damage are just three of many options you have.

if you want mobile scouting as damage dealer there are far better scouts for that. an underrated gem in that section is the t21 with optics, vstab and rammer in my opinion if you don't like the french autoloaders.

 

greetings


Edited by Pensionist, 23 January 2014 - 09:08 PM.


Ethan_ #11 Posted 24 January 2014 - 12:30 PM

    Corporal

  • Player
  • 11192 battles
  • 161
  • Member since:
    03-26-2011

Check Tazilon's website. You can find scouting routes on any maps and map configuration. You only need to master some of these routes and you can do pretty good even in tier X matches (if you delay your runs or get a strong spotting position and stay still.

http://www.tazilon.net/

 

Regarding low tier scout in tier X matches, just deal with it for the moment. There apparently will be a huge scout rebalance in the following patches, so keep hope.


Edited by Ethan_, 24 January 2014 - 12:37 PM.


big_ipaq #12 Posted 27 January 2014 - 06:02 AM

    Lance-corporal

  • Player
  • 21080 battles
  • 80
  • Member since:
    11-29-2013

No rebalance in upcoming 8.11 so...

 

As for Tazilon, I did long time ago, but I am so disappointed by his videos, almost all are not IMHO scouting techniques, but more medium task sniping in a same tier or close tier battles, techniques that are better learned from other videos, not scouting videos... 

 

 



big_ipaq #13 Posted 27 January 2014 - 06:03 AM

    Lance-corporal

  • Player
  • 21080 battles
  • 80
  • Member since:
    11-29-2013

Not to mention, his maps, are outdated on the side, bushes are not there long time ago, etc...

 



Defy #14 Posted 29 January 2014 - 10:11 AM

    Warrant Officer

  • Beta Tester
  • 7306 battles
  • 512
  • Member since:
    12-25-2010

View Postbig_ipaq, on 20 January 2014 - 07:29 AM, said:

I am trying to learn the art of scouting, playing, reading and watching others play, especially Tazilon.

 

I have VK 28.01, Type 64 and MT-25 with somewhat good skilled crews. I want to get these beyond 3rd skill.

 

However, I've found myself lately with my MT-25 in some battles, more than a lot actually, where there is no fun. I am sure I am the cause of this and my lack of knowledge, but the more such battles I undertake, the more puzzled I am.

 

How to scout with my MT-25 in a Tier 10 game on Mountain Pass? Actually with MT-25 you cannot pen almost no one, even from the rear or in weak spots. But you never get to see weak spots anyway... You're dead in one-shot from everyone.

 

Many maps have no spots to hide, so what is the role of a MT-25 in such battles?

 

Maps, just to list a few:

- Mountain Pass

- Siegfried Line

- Himmelsdorf

- Lakeville

 

just to name a few, but there are more... OK, there are scout friendly maps, but MT-25 view range and camo values are well under Tier X mediums and heavies, so what's the point. Please someone enlighten me... Same goes for VK 28.01... Watching Tazilon replays I cannot find such battles. Why these scouting tanks get such MM? What is the point? Free experience to those shooting the scouts?

 

No arty kills, no spotting, no hiding... Support a Tier 10 tank killing another Tier 10 tank, with my gun? Maybe telling jokes hoping Tier 10 will die laughing.

 

What is worse, is that Tazilon for example has absolutely no videos of such spotting battles (at least I could not find these yet, maybe Tazilon will read and correct me) where a MT-25 is scout on a Tier 10 battle in such maps.

 

Where to start? What to try to do? I got Mountain Pass, where all paths where having Tier X tanks engaged with TDs in the back. There is no way, a scout could pass through anywhere and if he tries, he will die before he spots anyone. Rhm.Borsig or WT auf. E100 will oneshot MT-25 before you know it.

 

 

Any advise will be highly apreciated.

 


almost every scout tank suxs atm. But developers told somewhere they will rebalance light-scout tanks and make them self-reliant, more action orientied.  The problem with light scout tanks came when every class started getting 10tier tanks, do to this mediums tanks now had almost all better stats than light-scout tanks. Why? because otherwise they would be underpowered compared to 10tier heavy tanks. So these medium tier 10 tanks became new scout tanks.

Developers promised light tank rebalance, but dont hold your breath on it, it might be long time before we get it.



Flamdring #15 Posted 29 January 2014 - 10:40 AM

    Staff Sergeant

  • Player
  • 19285 battles
  • 320
  • [SI-S] SI-S
  • Member since:
    09-16-2012

What Defy said is correct. Currently mediums outclass any scouting tank in top tier games, even the AMX 13 90 and the Chinese WZ-132 become virtually useless in Tier IX and X fights. I am not aware of the changes coming to scouting tanks, but I would welcome it as you get one shot even in AMX 13 75 by some nasty top tier TD as soon as you are spotted and I am usually a passive scout with Binoculars, Camouflage etc.. The problem is that in top tier battles, even if you sit in a bush, a Batchat driving at its insane speed doing rounds or some other fast medium tank is bound to discover you and even before you can blink as you did not see them coming at all, you are dead.

 

In quite a few cases, even before you manage to reach a bush, you are dead as all tanks in top tiers have excellent view range, noticeably better than any lower tier light tank.

 

P.S. About the changes to the scouts, I doubt they will be implemented until we have larger maps. Currently the maps are way too small for scouts to be efficient in top tier battles as each heavy has the view range of nearly half the map. If we had 4000x4000 metres maps and larger number of participants on each side e.g. 30 per side, scouts would be able to play a much better role.


Edited by Flamdring, 29 January 2014 - 10:44 AM.


Granwood #16 Posted 29 January 2014 - 11:26 AM

    Lance-corporal

  • Player
  • 28769 battles
  • 67
  • [ARPE] ARPE
  • Member since:
    02-26-2012

View Postbig_ipaq, on 22 January 2014 - 11:04 AM, said:

Example, Ruinberg Tier 10 battle today with my VK 28.01. I've made a run at end of the battle from our base to get the arty, we were leading 7-2. A BC 25t at around 200 m behind me spotted me, left what he was engaged in, chased me and in NO time got me, with superior speed and mobility and shot me. Free experience no fuss. Then before getting killed he got another shots or two for damage in Tier 10 or Tier 9 tanks... Why fight another Tier 10, when you get a kill and 600 dmg for free chasing a helpless and useless Tier VI tank?. And I was helpless as far as mobility is concerned and fire-power. He KNEW I cannot outrun him in no way and he one shots me. He KNEW I cannot do ANY damage whatsoever, not even de-track him. So, even if Ruinberg is ALMOST ok as a scouting map (8.10 map changes, destroyed a lot of bushes used by scouts, see Ruinberg and Ensk I know of), basically you are helpless.

 

What gun do you use on your VK 28? Because I do 150-450 dmg to batmobiles every shot?

I just few days ago got Orlik medal with VK 28 killing Obj. 268, IS-8, T95 (2x 400+ dmg from arse with HE) + some lower tier kills.

If you use the 75mm gun, I just ask why?

If you use the 105mm derp of DOOM, you prolly use AP ammo, which is big fail. Since the HEAT nerf (that one hit VK 28 big time), I've returned to my old ways & shoot only HE with that (I do shoot HEAT sometimes to guarantee those 400+dmg on really soft targets).



big_ipaq #17 Posted 30 January 2014 - 05:59 AM

    Lance-corporal

  • Player
  • 21080 battles
  • 80
  • Member since:
    11-29-2013

I use 105mm but to be able to shot these high tiers TDs and tanks, you want to make sure somebody else spots them.

 



Granwood #18 Posted 30 January 2014 - 11:10 AM

    Lance-corporal

  • Player
  • 28769 battles
  • 67
  • [ARPE] ARPE
  • Member since:
    02-26-2012

View Postbig_ipaq, on 30 January 2014 - 06:59 AM, said:

I use 105mm but to be able to shot these high tiers TDs and tanks, you want to make sure somebody else spots them.

 

 

Eh... Not really. If you are behind a bush & spot someone, do not shoot right away, move back about 15 m (untill you can't see through the bush) & fire. Remember that light tanks don't lose camo value when moving, so you should be able to move back to same position as before and do same thing again. This works even if you are quite close to enemy.

 

If you rely someone to scout for a scout... You are doing it wrong.



hobbit_marco #19 Posted 21 February 2014 - 03:13 PM

    Private

  • Player
  • 2972 battles
  • 2
  • Member since:
    10-14-2011

I haven't played WoT for a while now, but I played quite a bit with the T-50-2 and later the MT-25. I am by no means a scout expert or anything, I just wanna tell what I'd do in those situations.

 

The maps you list are just not scout-friendly. So that makes scouting in them much less fun/usefull I guess. It also depends on your teammates. If they don't get into the right positions to cover you, the enemy will usually kill you. If they all rush forward anyway, they'll see the enemy with their own viewrange so there's no use for you.

 

Sometimes I try to rush to a spotting place. Like on mountain pass to F4 (when starting on the bottom-right) so you can spot the enemies on the other side. But your team has got to support you there. And you have to rush there asap or otherwise they're already set up and kill you as you are driving up. Usually when I try something like that the success-rate is not that good. In Himmelsdorf you can do something similar in the tracks.

 

You can also race forward in the beginning of the match and do like a sweep on the halfway-point. Sometimes you can reveal if the enemies are rushing one flank with most of their force. Your team can act accordingly.

 

After that I usually pull back and patrol behind our lines, protecting arty and checking if enemy scouts slip through cracks. Later in the battle when there are fewer enemy tanks about, you can scout around more freely. Sometimes you can circle a lonely TD and annoy then (if you can pen, maybe difficult with T10 though) or try to kill their arty. Start capping or race back to your own flag to decap.



Quickyprd #20 Posted 24 February 2014 - 02:06 PM

    Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 19499 battles
  • 1,616
  • [PRASE] PRASE
  • Member since:
    07-19-2011

I am sorry, but this tank is totally useless....Haven´t mobility, havent gun.

If you wont soviet fast mobility tank on lower tier, take BT-2 or  A-43.

If you wont do capable gun take T71, or WZ-131/132

If you wont ramm something take VK28.0.1 of Afk.Panter

If you wont good scout with giant Xp take Chaffe.

 

MT-25 has nothing reason to play with this.

 

P.S. I had/have all tanks above wihtout A-43. Best was Chaffe and VK28.01, in the times when we have up to Tier8 LT the best is T71 and WZ-131.






1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users