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Legality quiestion: Enemy gun direction indicator.


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ClassicFrog #1 Posted 03 February 2014 - 11:49 PM

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Hello. I have recently browsed some sites with wot mods and I have found one that shows on the minimap the direction at which enemies (these that are within players drawing distance) are pointing their guns. These indicators are presented as short arrows and only displayed on minimap.

 

 

There was some discussion on that matter at the comments under the said mod but it was very chaotic and not very informative. I'd like to as here then, do that kind of mods fall into laser pointer category and are considered illegal or is it actually acceptable?

 

 

I am sure there will be some people saying all possible mods give unfair advantage, the only way to play the game is in its vanilla form ect ... if you are that kind of person ... what do you even do at mod section? Please go troll elsewhere.

Otherwise, just keep it civil. It's a genuine question and I'm looking forward to serious answers or perhaps wg representative clearly declaring said kind of mods to be illegal or not..



PFC_SPL #2 Posted 04 February 2014 - 06:05 AM

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IMO: cheat mod like it says in here:

************.com/mod-cheat-direction-guns-enemies-on-the-minimap/

 

Edit: hey OP can you do a poll of this with options like yes, no and no opinion ?

 

Edit 2: removed the link


Edited by PFC_SPL, 04 February 2014 - 09:59 AM.


Kilzone #3 Posted 04 February 2014 - 06:44 AM

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and in description on that page:

 

This mode indicates where guns are directed tanks enemies on the minimap. It is a huge advantage because you will know where the enemy is aimed gun and can successfully go shooting and escape. For this cheat you are not banned. The mod is compatible with update 0.8.10

Kilzone
 



ClassicFrog #4 Posted 04 February 2014 - 08:43 AM

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I did not post a link on purpose, in case such mod is illegal. I do not want to spread "cheats" on the forum.

Also, a pool is not a good idea. I am curious about opinions backed up with some argumentation and/or direct statement of wg representative. Popularity contest is not what I'm after.

 

And, as Kilzone pointed out, it is not clear from the description either if it's "cheat" or "cheat wink wink" the author of the description meant. One could say that adding a sound to 6th sense is a "sound cheat" to notice it better ... if you know what I mean.



Worsenary #5 Posted 04 February 2014 - 09:41 AM

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  • Location: worldof-tanks.com/mod-cheat-direction-guns-enemies-on-the-minimap
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​Not sure id go to that web site btw....

 

I'd have to say if laser gun pointing isn't illegal, it damn well should be.  It's bad enough in vanilla you can see around some corners.  And by the way, vanilla users can mod skins or be concerned about people bending the rules....

 

 

 



TacPenguin #6 Posted 04 February 2014 - 11:08 AM

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Ask about what ever mods you like. But never claim to have it installed. Or you will get banned. as happen recently in the US when a mod was changed from legal to illegal with no publicity and a player said in a forum thread he had it.

 

TacP


Edited by TacPenguin, 04 February 2014 - 11:08 AM.


htzak #7 Posted 04 February 2014 - 02:16 PM

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The thing is that WG should really create their own section in the site where legal mods are located, thus checked if they provide legitimate extra content and not cheats. 

 

At this stage the whole modding scene regarding the game is simply chaotic.

 

Having mods checked by the developers, community coordinators and so forth before going online in the official WG site (or any site powered by WG) would go along way towards improving the game experience for all players as the experience can be the same for all who chose to install any of the mods provided.

 

At the moment I use XVM, zoom out but it is not because i absolutely need them, but because I know that other players use them so I do not want to handicap my self against them.

If you think that this accurate gun pointing is OP how about the XVM minimap, showing last known positions with relative accuracy?



TacPenguin #8 Posted 04 February 2014 - 03:20 PM

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You only realise you dont need any mods when for the for a couple of games after a patch and you have to play vanilla.

Then you go hunting for all your favorites and add them 1 at a time .

I tend to go for the type that create a more emersive and fun experience like the Gnomefathers guns and engine sounds.

Oh and

Jimbos Xhairs

and

Scope shadow remove

and

Zoom out

and

Hit log

and

Damage log

and

Custom lighting

 

HOOOLD on i just realised im a mods junkie :ohmy:

 

I could play with out them!

I could i really could:tongue:

 

08.11 should be fun so many mods will not work.

 

TacP

 

PS

A WG approved working virus free source of Mods would be nice. But will never happen as there is no money for WG in provideing it unless they charge for it via gold or some such. I mean how many would buy them?? not many.  They could sweeten the pot by making the mod purchases permenant across updates like i hear they will do with gold camo that you will be forever on a tank even if you sell and rebuy it.


Edited by TacPenguin, 04 February 2014 - 03:25 PM.


ClassicFrog #9 Posted 04 February 2014 - 06:32 PM

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View Posthtzak, on 04 February 2014 - 01:16 PM, said:

If you think that this accurate gun pointing is OP how about the XVM minimap, showing last known positions with relative accuracy?

 

That's what made me think about making this thread. If we are allowed to use mods showing tank/player names on the minimap with spotting and drawing ranges, with lask known location of other tanks ect ... does this make a lot of difference to the minimap indicator showing which way someone's gun is pointing?

 

I guess the line of legal and illegal here is very thin and I can't decide where it starts and ends. To be honest, being competitive type, I am using many legal mods to my advantage. I'm also staying away from these I know are not legal. But these I don't know/I'm not sure about I prefer to ask. Maybe I should send a question to support ... but I'm afraid of some automated or generic answer where they will play it safe and say it's not ok to use the mod regardless of what the mod does.



htzak #10 Posted 07 February 2014 - 03:09 PM

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View PostClassicFrog, on 04 February 2014 - 07:32 PM, said:

 

That's what made me think about making this thread. If we are allowed to use mods showing tank/player names on the minimap with spotting and drawing ranges, with lask known location of other tanks ect ... does this make a lot of difference to the minimap indicator showing which way someone's gun is pointing?

 

I guess the line of legal and illegal here is very thin and I can't decide where it starts and ends. To be honest, being competitive type, I am using many legal mods to my advantage. I'm also staying away from these I know are not legal. But these I don't know/I'm not sure about I prefer to ask. Maybe I should send a question to support ... but I'm afraid of some automated or generic answer where they will play it safe and say it's not ok to use the mod regardless of what the mod does.

 

Although mate to be honest, the other side of the coin is that these mods ARE ACCESIBLE by everyone, and as long as WG do not try to find a way to review mods before they are released, the ones that will get the wrong end of the stick are the people that do not know or do not care about these mods. I personally once i am sure that the accurate gun indicator is 'legal' will install it in my mod folder... See ya in clan wars mate or platoon! :)



bean57 #11 Posted 07 February 2014 - 08:53 PM

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Generally speaking the accepted wisdom is that if the mod just makes alterations to the UI it's ok (crosshairs, engine sounds, HD minimap etc).  If on the other hand the mod gives the user a playing advantage over a non-user then that is usually considered to be a cheat.  There are some grey areas concerning what gives an advantage, which is why WG should really make their own position clearer.

 

However IMO, the mod described here should be considered a cheat.  It's only purpose is to help the user avoid being shot by another player that is using the legitimate mechanics of the game.  This has got nothing to do with playing vanilla - I have mods installed myself.  This mod is getting around normal mechanics in order to achieve an unfair advantage.  Personally I can't understand where the fun is in winning like that, but each to their own


Edited by bean57, 07 February 2014 - 08:53 PM.


ClassicFrog #12 Posted 07 February 2014 - 11:01 PM

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View Postbean57, on 07 February 2014 - 07:53 PM, said:

 If on the other hand the mod gives the user a playing advantage over a non-user then that is usually considered to be a cheat.

 

However IMO, the mod described here should be considered a cheat.  It's only purpose is to help the user avoid being shot by another player that is using the legitimate mechanics of the game

 

But the very same as what the mod in discussion does could be achieved by using a zoom out mod (that is legal apparently) and by looking at enemies from top down perspective to see behind the obstacles and observe their guns/turrets ... and even in vanilla to some extend, but with more limited field of vision. It is less effective of course but serves the very same purpose.

 

On the other hand a player statistic module of xvm mod, that is widely used and accepted as legal, gives enormous boost of situational awareness providing info about players in the battle. Depending on how you use it as a tool it may range from an UI bling bling to a powerful tool giving a clear advantage and helping win battles. Again, one could do the very same by, say, having another computer ready to type in players names to check on them during the battle but having the mod installed is simply more practical.

 

Also another example, a reload counter, in before wg introduced their own. It was a very useful tool, especially when tank suffered ammo rack damage or loader(s) casualties to give a quick glance at what to expect when reloading. It has other uses too. An experienced arty player would be able to time it precisely when to stop moving and start aiming to ensure he can fire as soon as he's fully aimed. An autoloader driver with reload reaching 40 or so seconds would have exact knowledge about last few seconds of reload (something easy for 5-10 sec reloading guns, just by "feeling it" and very difficult in long reload tanks when you barely see the reload graphical indicator moving at all)  to time it perfectly to combat peek-a-booing enemy and so on and so forth. A clear advantage there without a shadow of doubt.

 

And there we go, "giving player a clear advantage" is so vague and up for interpretation that basically all mods, even these purely cosmetic might have been considered illegal by some.



LUNSSI #13 Posted 07 February 2014 - 11:13 PM

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View Posthtzak, on 04 February 2014 - 01:16 PM, said:

The thing is that WG should really create their own section in the site where legal mods are located, thus checked if they provide legitimate extra content and not cheats. 

 

At this stage the whole modding scene regarding the game is simply chaotic.

 

Having mods checked by the developers, community coordinators and so forth before going online in the official WG site (or any site powered by WG) would go along way towards improving the game experience for all players as the experience can be the same for all who chose to install any of the mods provided.

 

At the moment I use XVM, zoom out but it is not because i absolutely need them, but because I know that other players use them so I do not want to handicap my self against them.

If you think that this accurate gun pointing is OP how about the XVM minimap, showing last known positions with relative accuracy?

 

WG said allready this isnt possible because once a mod list is created mods will simply be renamed and slightly adjusted so they are no longer on the list. hence the rather vague descriptions of banned mods we have currently.



leeuniverse #14 Posted 10 March 2014 - 11:26 PM

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View PostArnold_Judas_Rimmer, on 07 February 2014 - 04:13 PM, said:

 

WG said allready this isnt possible because once a mod list is created mods will simply be renamed and slightly adjusted so they are no longer on the list. hence the rather vague descriptions of banned mods we have currently.

 

That is simply not true.....

All kinds of company's have lists of "banned" items or activities, and they simply add a legal statement that anything that does the same or equivalent as said banned item is also banned.

Then, on rare occassion something new comes up that is totally new but should be banned, they simply add it to the list.

 

It's not complicated at all.


Edited by leeuniverse, 10 March 2014 - 11:26 PM.


leeuniverse #15 Posted 10 March 2014 - 11:56 PM

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BTW....  Enemy Gun Direction will almost certain sadly be on the coming banned mod list....

We do already have a banned mod list at the RU forum.  And it's allowed.  :)

Reason being is because they know there are other ways, including zoom out to know the enemy's gun direction.  And they will never ban zoom out.

It should already be in the game.  Any reasonable game allows you to view your surroundings to know where to drive and not be blind.


Edited by leeuniverse, 10 March 2014 - 11:57 PM.





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