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5 vs 5: Tier VIII Encounters


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Community #1 Posted 11 February 2014 - 11:21 AM

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Do you enjoy playing Tier VIII? If the answer is "yes", this tournament is for you!
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Lukas_de_Witch #2 Posted 11 February 2014 - 01:25 PM

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Will the battle system be automated  / in game client / or trough training rooms.

Nuxtor #3 Posted 11 February 2014 - 01:33 PM

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Such a good format for aggressive play and more fun tactics compared to 7v7. No cheap passive scouts means its hard to be defensive without splitting up. Id like to see top teams fighting in this over any extravagant 7v7 event.

destino1993 #4 Posted 11 February 2014 - 01:56 PM

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well this is like team fights, only without the tier 1s, will be quite interesting!

Kolbur #5 Posted 11 February 2014 - 05:13 PM

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View PostNuxtor, on 11 February 2014 - 01:33 PM, said:

Such a good format for aggressive play and more fun tactics compared to 7v7. No cheap passive scouts means its hard to be defensive without splitting up. Id like to see top teams fighting in this over any extravagant 7v7 event.


Do you really think that even blinder teams will be more aggressive? The risk of getting capped is much bigger if you don't get a warning about it from your T1s anymore. With so few tanks map control doesn't mean anything. All I expect is more camping close to the base, not less. In b4 1vs1 tournaments... 



Berbo #6 Posted 12 February 2014 - 12:20 PM

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View PostLukas_de_Witch, on 11 February 2014 - 01:25 PM, said:

Will the battle system be automated  / in game client / or trough training rooms.

 

It's automated of course

 

View Postdestino1993, on 11 February 2014 - 01:56 PM, said:

well this is like team fights, only without the tier 1s, will be quite interesting!

 

Indeed!



Nuxtor #7 Posted 12 February 2014 - 12:59 PM

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View PostKolbur, on 11 February 2014 - 05:13 PM, said:


Do you really think that even blinder teams will be more aggressive? The risk of getting capped is much bigger if you don't get a warning about it from your T1s anymore. With so few tanks map control doesn't mean anything. All I expect is more camping close to the base, not less. In b4 1vs1 tournaments... 

What you seem to forget is that the cappers have to be T8s aswell. No cheap T1s in here bro. An example of aggressive play is to rush with 5/5 tanks to either find some basecampers or crush a flank. If the enemy split 3 def/2 attack, they will lose their defenders in 10 secs and their "attackers" are too slow to counter cap (3 cappers for the 5/5 team > 2 cappers for the defensive team). If the enemy split 4/1 you have enough speed with a 50 100/13 90 to go back for decap even tho their defense is strong.

 

To sum it up compared to 7v7:

- Easier to do aggressive plays because of 2 less scouts per team

- Less likely to win/lose by cap because of 2 less small tanks capping per team

 

= More about T8 skill and scouting, tactically more interesting with positioning for T8 fights instead of a "push" trying to get some T1s into cap.


Edited by Nuxtor, 12 February 2014 - 01:00 PM.


Kolbur #8 Posted 12 February 2014 - 02:13 PM

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The T1 are only rarely used to push into the cap. Most of the time they are used to scout an empty flank, as early alarm system or sometimes as a suicide scout. I find it strange that you seem to think the removal of them will give more options. That said I never like the use of T1s either but imo the way to go would be to raise the tier limit to allow the use of more interesting tanks instead of T1s.

 

You already outlined the risk of splitting up too much. Do you really think any good team will take the risk? If I continue your train of thought I come to the result that there will be mostly blobs of 5 tanks driving around looking for each other and then having a shootout. Maybe you find that tactically interesting but I don't. But of course they can't drive around too much because they have no real clue what the enemy does and that would be too risky again because they don't have the backdoor spotters anymore. Maybe 13 90s will spot a little bit here and there but their hp and tier points are precious and can't be risked either, not to mention that the chosen maps aren't good scout maps anyway. The entire thing is just set up to have a shootout between 2 groups of mostly heavies. 



Nuxtor #9 Posted 12 February 2014 - 02:32 PM

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5v5 shootouts sound 100x more exciting than the 10min campfests that alot of ESL 7v7s are. With this its more up to the players and commander to fight for the key locations, using skill and teamwork to win those shootouts. Its perfectly viable to scout with a t8 tank; would you go for a 13 90 for quick spotting? Would you sacrifice one equipment slot on IS3 for optics? 50 100s with binos would actually be useful compared to staring into a t1 in a bush that never will be spotted.

 

I suspect that people camping hard will find themselves in a bad position, which is why we will see alot of rushing, counter-rushing and flanking. Much more interesting than how 7v7s currently pan out.


Edited by Nuxtor, 12 February 2014 - 02:33 PM.


Kolbur #10 Posted 12 February 2014 - 02:48 PM

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Well the shootouts will of course only happen after a 10min campfest, don't you think? :teethhappy:

 

But no matter how this will play out compared to the 7vs7 mode, I would greatly prefer the company-sized tournaments. THEY are way more tactically interesting.



JetCannon3 #11 Posted 12 February 2014 - 02:56 PM

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I agree with Kolbur, removing the two tier1 tanks will hardly give more options. Just more things to worry about, which might actually limit options. And who will really care about the cap if it's encounter game mode (is it? not entirely sure).

 

Anyway, I kind of miss the old pre 8.6 7vs7s, where it wasn't just tier 8 and 1, but also T-50-2, Bison, Grille, T2 Light,...

Not saying it was any better back then, but some variation in tiers can be nice from time to time.



Nuxtor #12 Posted 12 February 2014 - 03:26 PM

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IMO there's 3 main tactics that can be used:

Aggressive: Rushing in to suprise the enemy, take map control or other key locations of the map.

Poke style: Scout out the enemy to outmanouver and suprise.

Defensive: Just camp and let enemy try to attack you.

 

At the moment, aggressive style of playing doesnt work in high level 7v7 the way T1s influence. Simply because if you rush with 5 T8s, the enemy will scout you early with their tanks or T1. The logical way to approach this would be to suicide scout with a T1 in front of your T8 push, but the way T8s and stationary T1s kill active scout T1s, its quite useless. If you still keep going you might find yourself fighting 5v5 against enemy T8s, but with a 1v2 in your cap zone against enemy T1s. With a 50s timer of 2 cappers, a T8 needs to go back which loses you the 5v5 fight and the game. The essence is that most good teams know how to counter aggressive play, both in sending T1s to counter cap and that 5 defending T8s are better than 5 attacking T8s.

 

This leaves you with only the poke style of play (which the eSport commentators refer to as "aggressive" or "creative") and simply camping. My thoughts on how to solve this passive play, without throwing out the light tanks can be found here: http://forum.worldof...t-as-an-esport/

 

-----

 

I just really hope that some of WG either stream or monitor this tournament to see how the battles play out. My assumtion is that you will see aggressive play and maybe some poke play, but that the dull camping play styles will get easily eliminated. It should be much more entertaining for viewers than the standard setup. When one of the casters from WGL finals Europe mentions that there have been SEVEN draws in a row in some matchups, you gotta look for some changes. Thats like having a 4 hour football match just because neither of the teams are leaving their own half.



Mymh #13 Posted 12 February 2014 - 07:59 PM

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I'd love to play this tournament. Given the short time to when it start tho and the massive issues we had with servers for three days in a row, do you belive they will be functional in time for this 5v5?

Norrin_Radd #14 Posted 14 February 2014 - 04:59 PM

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OK I set up a team, but so did someone else in my clan. I can't seem to delete the team will this cause a problem as I have joined the other team?

LucTheHunter #15 Posted 19 February 2014 - 05:43 PM

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Anyone knows when are the battles schedules available and how to browse them ?

WhoKilledBambi #16 Posted 19 February 2014 - 07:15 PM

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Why my team is not invited in the tournament....?

 



EricxvanderxVen #17 Posted 19 February 2014 - 07:17 PM

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Why it won't start?

GoEzPlz #18 Posted 19 February 2014 - 07:19 PM

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My team are not invited to the fun cup, why is this?

NextLevelBleachDrinker #19 Posted 19 February 2014 - 07:26 PM

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why haven't we got the invite to it?

Stormfish #20 Posted 19 February 2014 - 07:28 PM

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Also waiting. Expect its due to insufficient planning for capacity. Crap all info anywhere else.

 

 

**** UPDATE ****

Finally been given a battle time.


Edited by Stormfish, 19 February 2014 - 07:55 PM.





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