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Team Kill/Damage Punishment Discussion


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badgr_ #1 Posted 17 February 2014 - 03:48 PM

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Since this is a topic that everyone is keen to discuss and show their opinions on right now, we thought it would be best to make a pinned topic so that all discussions can be made here!

 

For the patch notes on the reworked team damage system, you can find it here! Or below:

 

General provisions:

  • Reworked the Damage Control System in relation to allies. In particular, damage to a tank by its platoon-mate is now considered illegal and therefore punishable.
  • Punishments in the team damage (the so-called “team hit” - damaging a vehicle on your own team) and team kill control system (destroying a vehicle on your own team) have become more severe, and at the same time more factors are now taken into account: penalty points for particular kinds of violations will be calculated with consideration of accidental team damage.
  • The chance of account suspension (“ban”) increases with each consequent damaging of allied vehicles in the same battle.
  • SPGs have special penalty point calculations to rule out accidental team damage (hitting an ally with ‘splash’ etc.).
  • Ramming allied tanks is also treated as foul play and an illegal action. The tank whose speed at the moment of collision was higher will be considered the offender.
  • The accumulated penalty points can be reduced by destroying enemy vehicles in the battles in which the allied team wins.
  • The duration of the first suspension has been reduced to one hour.

 

Improved the system of compensation to the victim of team damage:

  • The repair costs of the team damage victim are compensated in all cases.
  • Apart from the repair cost, the offender will also pay the affected party 10% of the total repair costs. 
  • The offender will pay the affected party not only with credits received for the battle, but also with credits available on the offender’s account.

 

More severe punishments will be applied in the following scenarios:

  • If the enemy base capture has been interrupted by an ally (by the means of ramming or shooting).
  • If modules on an allied tank have been damaged (by the ramming or shooting).
  • If an allied tank has been destroyed.

 

Less serious punishments (but a penalty rating increase nonetheless) will be applied in the following scenarios:

  • If an allied vehicle has been damaged accidentally while the player was aiming at the enemy tank.
  • If an allied vehicle has been accidentally damaged with fragments of a high-explosive shell (by the so-called “splash”). 
  • If, after firing, both the enemy vehicle and an allied vehicle were damaged. 

 

Pro tip! Don't do it

 

 

Please also find the information from the previous thread about Team Damage below:

 

 

Spoiler


Kevbar #2 Posted 17 February 2014 - 04:06 PM

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I've had 2 recent scenarios where

 

  1. I was pushed out of cover deliberately and could not move at all (El Halluf G8 overlooking valley) whereby enemy killed me at leisure
  2. On Arctic Region map, spawn south. I was in my S35CA TD and took up the favoured sniping position around F4(ish), next thing, some potential TKer tried pushing me off the edge. He spent the rest of the game taking potshots at me.

 

I know the system cannot ever cover every scenario, but surely these kind of offences should be reportable and actionable.



Woody1999 #3 Posted 17 February 2014 - 04:21 PM

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Me and my old clanmate (who stumbled upon the dingers) have a rule where if we annoy eachother we get the right to give 'free ammo' to the other. Silly, I know, but funny.

 

Now though, he shot my Ke-Ho once in his Matilda and got a 1-day ban. :trollface:

 

Seems like no more free ammo rule from now on!

 

Woody



Yndy_ #4 Posted 17 February 2014 - 04:33 PM

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A bit of overview: My son plays mostly with kids his age. They shoot each other a bit more often than normal. They are aware that they should do it in training rooms but sometimes they think it's fun to do it in the battle. My son's friends sometimes shoot other allies and have received 1 day bans in the past, one has also received a 3(?) days ban.

 

Since the new rules punishing team damage within a platoon, my son has gotten blue for the first time in his WOT career. I've told him that he will eventually lose his account and I hope he learned his lesson.   However my question is about his friend with lots of bans:

 

Since he already got the 3 days ban, will the bans always evolve until he gets perma banned? Or if he settles down, his penalty points will decrease and maybe if he does get another ban it will be a one hour ban?

 

Thanks for clarifications



Ubertron_X #5 Posted 17 February 2014 - 04:41 PM

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Friendly fire - isn't.

Orkel2 #6 Posted 17 February 2014 - 05:04 PM

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View PostYndy_, on 17 February 2014 - 03:33 PM, said:

A bit of overview: My son plays mostly with kids his age. They shoot each other a bit more often than normal. They are aware that they should do it in training rooms but sometimes they think it's fun to do it in the battle. My son's friends sometimes shoot other allies and have received 1 day bans in the past, one has also received a 3(?) days ban.

 

Since the new rules punishing team damage within a platoon, my son has gotten blue for the first time in his WOT career. I've told him that he will eventually lose his account and I hope he learned his lesson.   However my question is about his friend with lots of bans:

 

Since he already got the 3 days ban, will the bans always evolve until he gets perma banned? Or if he settles down, his penalty points will decrease and maybe if he does get another ban it will be a one hour ban?

 

Thanks for clarifications

 

The bans won't be "forgotten". Even if your next ban is a year from now, it will still be longer than a possible ban gotten last week. If your son or his friends keeps teamkilling he/they will get eventually permabanned, the rules are equal to everyone. Getting rid of teamkillers, kids or adults, both deserve it.

 

Afaik the next ban after 3 days is 1 week, then 1 month and then perma.


Edited by Orkel2, 17 February 2014 - 05:09 PM.


jarmor85 #7 Posted 17 February 2014 - 06:07 PM

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jeah great one mistake on random and u are banned gj wg again what a stypid rule. there should be some sort of limit how much u can do team damage to get banned. i made accidentaly 150 team damage and banned gj WG.

accidents happens on, so its that reason to get banned



mtm78 #8 Posted 17 February 2014 - 06:14 PM

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So what are the new ban durations, the shortest ban is now an hour but is there a six hour ban, 12 hour ban, or does it go from one hour to one day and then following the older duration listing?

lionheat #9 Posted 17 February 2014 - 06:19 PM

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i just get 1h penalty for shooting allied tank wich blocked my moving alltime so is this really fair

Observer413 #10 Posted 17 February 2014 - 09:34 PM

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I just found out about it, by taking care of our scout that felt comfy behind my panther. Funny, didn't expect it to occur so fast- just as i killed him, i got suspended. :D

zalas #11 Posted 17 February 2014 - 10:13 PM

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[edited] players in platoon [edited] and [edited] made two team kills and at the end one killed me to take the last kill. I demand from game moderators to take actions about this phenomenon,its unacceptable people keep playing this game when rules not used,also its better to turn complain actions again unlimited,day per day worst players and bad mannered play this game.

Edited by Muerte92, 19 February 2014 - 06:19 PM.
This post has been edited by a member of the Moderation Team, due to inappropriate content. ~Muerte92


echo7 #12 Posted 17 February 2014 - 10:13 PM

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View PostObserver413, on 17 February 2014 - 09:34 PM, said:

I just found out about it, by taking care of our scout that felt comfy behind my panther. Funny, didn't expect it to occur so fast- just as i killed him, i got suspended. :D

 

Very good, so the next time you try to grief other players, your ban will be even longer - days, then weeks.  So, if you dont learn your lesson, other players wont have to meet you ingame as you wont be able to play. Follow the rules - you dont decide what other players do, and youre good. Continue teamdamaging by ramming, shooting & pushing etc - and the game will get rid of you automatically, good for the other players.



Observer413 #13 Posted 18 February 2014 - 12:15 AM

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View Postecho7, on 17 February 2014 - 09:13 PM, said:

 

Very good, so the next time you try to grief other players, your ban will be even longer - days, then weeks.  So, if you dont learn your lesson, other players wont have to meet you ingame as you wont be able to play. Follow the rules - you dont decide what other players do, and youre good. Continue teamdamaging by ramming, shooting & pushing etc - and the game will get rid of you automatically, good for the other players.

Riiight. Please teach me more master and share your vast knowledge.
 
On the sidenote, i find this change a win-lose situation, good for average player, but not so good for the guys that are more capable at the game.
Yeah, sure, its nice that that suspense is being implemented so fast.
What is bad, is that it takes out the chance for a good player to fix his own team and win the game after that.

Explanation- right now you can't take out teammate unless he is already blue-colored on the list, but sometimes: it actually the right thing to do. In some cases: ITS A MUST-DO if you wan't your team to win.
 
The problem is, that someone who keeps pushing you out of position won't become blue.
I have been taken out by a kv1s at the beggining of the game(when he shot only me, 3 times with 122 derp) and he didnt get blue.
See a problem here, if it would occur these days?
So right now, you can't kill these guys, because otherwise you will be suspended. So you have to wait for them to slaughter valuable members of the team, which cripples your enemy, before you can dish out the justice on them?
You have to allow for some idiot to push your td down some cliff or hill, which will greatly decrese the damage dealing potential of your team?
 
Face it. Sometimes, even guy colored green on the HUD works for the enemy.
I'm surprised that after almost 50k battles you don't get the concept that you need to clean the team from some people in order to have a chance to win the game.



campbell121 #14 Posted 18 February 2014 - 01:00 AM

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I have been banned for a day because a user deliberately blocked me from moving in my TOG to cause offence and spoil my game so I asked him to pack it in and he continued so I fired a warning shot he continued so I fired another and got a 1 day ban. The new rules don't cater for this type of behaviour. Anybody else had similar?

I am being penelised for his anti-social behaviour!



Campyy #15 Posted 18 February 2014 - 01:03 AM

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I like it this way, i can teamkill some moron who's being a moron and only get banned for an hour or so instead of 24 like before.

Samurai__ #16 Posted 18 February 2014 - 09:54 AM

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:bush:  You guys are so funny...there is absolutley no circumstance where it is acceptable to shoot any member of your team...even if you feel the need, if they shoot you, push you, block your shot...

 

Shoot the Red Guys, Do Not Shoot the Green Guys, shoot the Blue guys at your own descretion...simples :hiding:



Ubertron_X #17 Posted 18 February 2014 - 09:57 AM

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Right now there are two kinds of issues with WoT.

 

One is on the tactical level, most probably involving team damage/killing, pushing out of position, disrupting others aim, blockig their routes of retreat etc. Most of the time these are malevolent, pretty annoying and can easily get you lose your temper and fire back. Everybody who has been harassed by an angry low tier tank whom you accidentially managed to ram for some HP at the start of the round knows what I am talking about. The problem is that there are many ways of grieving other players in game that do not fall under the current automated rules and there is no reasonably fast way to retaliate. We cant even vote players out of the current round with lets they 66% of players votes (10 of 15). Sure I can report those players, however this will not help me to win this round.

 

However "teamkilling" can also happen on a strategic level. Or rather should it be called "deliberately causing your team to lose". As a simple example we can take a look at Lakeville Enconter when every single heavy tank in your team decides that the canyon to the west is a nice cozy place and lemmings there, leaving the city / cap defenders to die horribly and super fast. Of course you always have the chance to also abandon town to avoid dying, granting the enemy team a nice, fast, clean and probably pointless victory. What to do in those cases? Vote every single player in the canyon for unfair play? If so I would be out of votes after the 3rd game each day. Additionally it's partly not all their fault that WG neglects their tutorials, respectively fails to show basic objectives and possible strategies on the loading screen. On the other hand you could shoot them in the back commissar style or drown yourself in the lake. However as both are punishable offenses I would not recommend this either. So WG what about these deliberate losses?



Broesy #18 Posted 18 February 2014 - 11:46 AM

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The only time where I still find it justified to make a team kill is when a tier 1-3 enters a T10 match with a troll platoon. I still dont understand why WG would allow these kind of platoons to join public games.

These troll platoons screw over the team by taking up a valuable spot and no, the scout/damage value of these Tier 1-3 tanks does not come remotely close to what an extra Tier 8-10 tank could provide. I realise that the weighting system compensates a little to compensate for the low tier tank but I think it is safe to say that all experienced players would rather have one extra T8-10 tank compared to a T1-3.

 



tiger4everr #19 Posted 18 February 2014 - 11:54 AM

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View Postlionheat, on 17 February 2014 - 06:19 PM, said:

i just get 1h penalty for shooting allied tank wich blocked my moving alltime so is this really fair

I had the same problem. I banned and the other guy stil play



Observer413 #20 Posted 18 February 2014 - 12:12 PM

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View PostCampyy, on 18 February 2014 - 12:03 AM, said:

I like it this way, i can teamkill some moron who's being a moron and only get banned for an hour or so instead of 24 like before.


Actutally, before, i could safely perform three TKs(one per game, 3 diffrent matches) and worst case scenario was that i would turn blue, as a warning.
 
Now, 1 TK and i got kicked from the game i was trying to win because i got rid of useless tier4 scout that was crawling up my [edited]. Also, it appears that each consecutive suspense will be longer.
 
My point is- i rather get 24h suspense for few TKs in a row or in the same game(single TK happened from time to time, several in the same match only about twice in my "career"), than 1h instant after single TK.
 
I would rather have a working report system. I mean, actually working one. An algorithm is unable to diffrentiate between TKs, while with report system, your team decides whether it was justified or not.
 
People with any amount of brains often identifies who was actually griefing or being burden to the team(and reports the guy after i present them the case), only once i had been attacked by my team after i got rid of some "joker". Funny enough, it lead my team to the defeat, yet i was the guy with highest damage dealt score, and i wasn't even top tier. But, "the past is in the past".
 
I think this system opens teams to higher chance of defeat.






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