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Community #1 Posted 25 February 2014 - 05:58 PM

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Richard "The_Challenger" Cutland tells a story about the processes involved in actually firing tank guns in action.

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Hans_Babo_von_Rohr #2 Posted 25 February 2014 - 06:08 PM

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My old job! Former member of the Kings Royal Hussars. Still remember the drill now, and I've been out 8 years. Great memories of CR2. Beast of a tank.

Murphy1up #3 Posted 25 February 2014 - 06:08 PM

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Cool article, you can feel the tension in the encounter!

Denii #4 Posted 25 February 2014 - 06:10 PM

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Tragic story.

 

Did anyone from the T62 come out alive?

 

Did they have any chance of knocking you out had they hit you?

 

Did you have any chance of coming out alive had their round penetrated you?



Industrial7 #5 Posted 25 February 2014 - 06:16 PM

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View PostDenii, on 25 February 2014 - 06:10 PM, said:

Tragic story.

 

Did anyone from the T62 come out alive?

 

Did they have any chance of knocking you out had they hit you?

 

Did you have any chance of coming out alive had their round penetrated you?


It's fictional, it says so at the bottom of the page, so no one was real.



great_kahn #6 Posted 25 February 2014 - 06:43 PM

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Good read. Was the loader really allowed to smoke?

bugsy868 #7 Posted 25 February 2014 - 07:01 PM

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Memory's seems like yesterday. in reply to smoking in the Turret a big taboo and no Commander worth his salt will admit to it. but it happened.

great_kahn #8 Posted 25 February 2014 - 07:06 PM

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View Postbugsy868, on 25 February 2014 - 07:01 PM, said:

Memory's seems like yesterday. in reply to smoking in the Turret a big taboo and no Commander worth his salt will admit to it. but it happened.

 

Needs must in war I suppose, but smoking near 60? rounds of live ammo :ohmy: health and safety would have a seizure.



knocker21 #9 Posted 25 February 2014 - 07:12 PM

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Ah those were the days

Memories flooding back



Seepheerd #10 Posted 25 February 2014 - 07:15 PM

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Cordite? Thought it was just around the WW1 and 2 :)

 

One of my friend was a tank commander during the first Gulf war. Told stories, true stories... I won't tell you any. :)



knocker21 #11 Posted 25 February 2014 - 07:19 PM

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View Postgreat_kahn, on 25 February 2014 - 05:43 PM, said:

Good read. Was the loader really allowed to smoke?

One night march in BATUS loader smoked with one of the charge bins lid off set light to the bag charge it started to smolder all hell broke loose 

 

all tank lights came on (head lights) pointing at the tank in question crew get out jump off the turret next thing a flame from (like a jet engine) shoots out the turret must be 50 - 70 ft high lights up the whole of Canada FFs

 

Crew Cmd (2nd Lt) got crap for letting his crew smoke

 

True story PS Tank was a write off (Chaly 1)


Edited by knocker21, 25 February 2014 - 07:26 PM.


Hans_Babo_von_Rohr #12 Posted 25 February 2014 - 07:55 PM

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View Postknocker21, on 25 February 2014 - 07:19 PM, said:

One night march in BATUS loader smoked with one of the charge bins lid off set light to the bag charge it started to smolder all hell broke loose 

 

all tank lights came on (head lights) pointing at the tank in question crew get out jump off the turret next thing a flame from (like a jet engine) shoots out the turret must be 50 - 70 ft high lights up the whole of Canada FFs

 

Crew Cmd (2nd Lt) got crap for letting his crew smoke

 

True story PS Tank was a write off (Chaly 1)

 

Batus was always a good crack, the stuff that went on there, med hat and surrounding area are never to be spoken of again lol. 



PTPH #13 Posted 25 February 2014 - 07:58 PM

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View Postgreat_kahn, on 25 February 2014 - 08:06 PM, said:

Needs must in war I suppose, but smoking near 60? rounds of live ammo :ohmy: health and safety would have a seizure.

 

On my experience there's nothing special about that. I was a commander of a tank and yes, nobody actually cared if we'd smoke next to ammo or inside a tank. High explosives are a different story...



HankCzinaski #14 Posted 25 February 2014 - 09:06 PM

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Good read.

 

In regards to the "disclaimer" at the bottom, I think it doesn't necessarily mean it's all complete fiction.


Edited by HankCzinaski, 25 February 2014 - 09:07 PM.


ollonborre #15 Posted 25 February 2014 - 09:06 PM

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View PostPTPH, on 25 February 2014 - 06:58 PM, said:

 

On my experience there's nothing special about that. I was a commander of a tank and yes, nobody actually cared if we'd smoke next to ammo or inside a tank. High explosives are a different story...

 

I have a little anecdote for that. A few weeks backs on a traning exercise me and a mate were on patroll around our field base, and we noticed this civilian reporter standing around a big container. Since not much else was happening that evening we decided to stroll over there for a quick chat. However as we approached he lit a cigarette and started smoking right next to that container. Me and my friend had a bit of a heart attack and we rushed over there to stop him.

 

Now normally smoking in the field is fully acceptable, but having a smoke just next to a container with around 12 tons of 155 mm High Explosive howitzer shells is begging for some trouble...

 

Anyhow great read and it would be nice to see more of it.


Edited by ollonborre, 25 February 2014 - 09:06 PM.


Denii #16 Posted 25 February 2014 - 09:25 PM

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View PostIndustrial7, on 25 February 2014 - 06:16 PM, said:


It's fictional, it says so at the bottom of the page, so no one was real.

 

Thanks for pointing it out. Missed that part as it was below the picture and assumed it was real.

 

Either way, two questions still remain:

 

Did a T62 have any chance of knocking you out had they a Challenger 2 (obviously on the front part)?

 

Do the crew of C2 have any chance of coming out alive if a T62 round goes through?

 

p.s. Why all the negative feedback? Just because I missed the disclaimer?

 



IBLiTZKRiEGI #17 Posted 25 February 2014 - 09:29 PM

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"Overkill was not necessary, nor wasting ammunition."

 

With all the cuts to the British Army we certainly can't afford it!

 

 

View PostDenii, on 25 February 2014 - 08:25 PM, said:

p.s. Why all the negative feedback? Just because I missed the disclaimer?

 

 

Possibly because you said "tragic story", the Challenger crew are the "good guys" in this story.


Edited by IBLiTZKRiEGI, 25 February 2014 - 09:30 PM.


Alexyus13 #18 Posted 25 February 2014 - 10:05 PM

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I must also tell some stories to set things clear. As a tank officer I had my basic branch training on T55 tanks (very similar to T62) and since the beggining I was thought that it is not a matter of military technique performance that sets the winner, but the crew training and I totally agree to that.

The T62 has a scale on the scope used to manually measure distance to targets. The scale is calibrated for 2.3 m high targets, so if your target is larger than that, the indicated distance is shorter. A Challenger2 tank is 2.49m high (according to wikipedia), so if the T62 tank crew fired a "short round" it's only their fault that they did not correctly estimated the height of the enemy tank and so they did with the distance.

Secondly: for a well trained crew won't take more than 10 seconds to identify the target, estimate the right distance, load the proper round (assuming that the right round is not already loaded) and fire.

In the story shown on the site it says that the T62 fired a round but missed. If I were in the crew of the Challenger2, I would consider myself dead if the enemy would shoot before me.

Regarding the smoking inside the tank...well I can not even imagine that. The risk of ammunition explosion is almost 0 in T55 (the cartridge is metal made on the 100mm ammo), but the ventilation i must say is pretty bad...so the smoke would be unbearable. What's more, the fire suppression system can be turned on by the smoke and the crew might get suffocated. This happened for real when 2 of my mates wanted to check the efficiency of that system and started to smoke inside the tank with the system set on automatically functioning (this should be done only in battle, never in peacetime), and they nearly died suffocated (so...yeah...the system worked). 

Regarding the accuracy of the gun, I totally disagree with the writer. The longest live firing session I did was at 3500m with HE rounds on a textile helicopter profile target. At that time I was also skeptical about the chance of hitting the target but i was totally shocked seeing every single projectile going right where the targeting mark was pointed (it was a pretty windy outside, with the wind blowing sideways at about 30 km/h, but we didn't use any side targeting corrections).



Alexyus13 #19 Posted 25 February 2014 - 10:22 PM

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Oh...and...missing a huge Challenger2 tank forn 1200m away must really make you think about going to an "eye doctor" (I do not know the correct word in english...and I'm too lazy to search for it in google)

 



bugsy868 #20 Posted 25 February 2014 - 11:02 PM

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View Postknocker21, on 25 February 2014 - 07:19 PM, said:

One night march in BATUS loader smoked with one of the charge bins lid off set light to the bag charge it started to smolder all hell broke loose 

 

all tank lights came on (head lights) pointing at the tank in question crew get out jump off the turret next thing a flame from (like a jet engine) shoots out the turret must be 50 - 70 ft high lights up the whole of Canada FFs

 

Crew Cmd (2nd Lt) got crap for letting his crew smoke

 

True story PS Tank was a write off (Chaly 1)


It is certainly a True story and I was witness to a very similar incident in BATUS on CR1, same again Loader having a fag, he knocked ember off straight in to Charge Bin, he bravely or stupidly pulled it out and threw it out of the Turret. This time a Troop Cpl's Tank. didn't do him any harm went on and got commissioned and the loader ended up as a Staff sergeant.






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