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Fix the M5 Stuart!


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DatNerdSwag #21 Posted 12 May 2014 - 10:25 PM

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View Postfverhoef, on 09 May 2014 - 01:36 PM, said:

You're talking about the most heavy tank there is in any tier (I know the Matilda is classified as medium, but in effect it's more heavy than almost any other real heavy). So as a light you're not supposed to be a match in a one-on-one.

And it's also funny that you mentioned the Matilda in regards to the small amount of damage a M5 Stuart is doing, as the Stuart is doing 40 with its 37mm gun, while the Matilda is doing just 55 with its best 2 pounder. So in that regard 40 is not that bad.

 

 

I think you don't understand. I'm saying that when tanks like the Matilda, the Alecto, the T40, the M8A1 etc. all see this thing in a low tier game, the Stuart is worthless. I'm not saying that I struggle face to face with them, I'm saying that this thing will get wrecked by them 9/10 times, face to face or not.

Regarding your comparison, the Matilda has much higher DPM, so pointing out the low alpha makes 0 difference to the argument.



Ze_HOFF_fverhoef #22 Posted 13 May 2014 - 08:02 AM

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View PostDatNerdSwag, on 12 May 2014 - 10:25 PM, said:

 

 

I think you don't understand. I'm saying that when tanks like the Matilda, the Alecto, the T40, the M8A1 etc. all see this thing in a low tier game, the Stuart is worthless. I'm not saying that I struggle face to face with them, I'm saying that this thing will get wrecked by them 9/10 times, face to face or not.

Regarding your comparison, the Matilda has much higher DPM, so pointing out the low alpha makes 0 difference to the argument.

I think I do understand. You compare it with other tier 4 tanks that are much better damage givers than the M5 Stuart. Difference is that all those tanks you mention are pseudo-heavies or tank-destroyers. Now compare it with other tier 4 lights. 

 

The luchs - I 100% agree with you the Luchs is much better than the m5. Not because of DPM, but because it's much more suitable for scouting.

The AMX 40 - Another pseudo-heavy in the form of a light.... hideously slow. 

 

Anyway, I do agree that the M5 Stuart is an underperforming tank (at least for me). But don't compare it with an MT, HT or TD.... they're supposed to be different as they are supposed to have different roles. It's supposed to be a scout. The Matilda is supposed to brawl with other tanks. The Alecto and the T40 are supposed to shoot tanks from hidden positions. If scouting is not what you'd like to do, then you're in the wrong tank :)

 



VeryRisky #23 Posted 13 May 2014 - 10:47 AM

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View PostDatNerdSwag, on 12 May 2014 - 10:25 PM, said:

 

 

I think you don't understand. I'm saying that when tanks like the Matilda, the Alecto, the T40, the M8A1 etc. all see this thing in a low tier game, the Stuart is worthless. I'm not saying that I struggle face to face with them, I'm saying that this thing will get wrecked by them 9/10 times, face to face or not.

Regarding your comparison, the Matilda has much higher DPM, so pointing out the low alpha makes 0 difference to the argument.

 

 

THe matilda is a heavily armored tank that will bounce more than just a light tank.  The other three are open topped and will be badly hurt if you land a bit of HE in there.

 

Hell I hit a Nashorn with three shells at range yesterday.  Was something like 500 damage done.



DatNerdSwag #24 Posted 13 May 2014 - 04:18 PM

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View PostVeryRisky, on 13 May 2014 - 10:47 AM, said:

 

 

THe matilda is a heavily armored tank that will bounce more than just a light tank.  The other three are open topped and will be badly hurt if you land a bit of HE in there.

 

Hell I hit a Nashorn with three shells at range yesterday.  Was something like 500 damage done.

Nashorn took all that damage not because it's open top, but because that German line has no armour. The others will out DPM you and your 75mm howitzer won't have enough splash to do open top damage anyway...



VeryRisky #25 Posted 13 May 2014 - 05:03 PM

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View PostDatNerdSwag, on 13 May 2014 - 04:18 PM, said:

Nashorn took all that damage not because it's open top, but because that German line has no armour. The others will out DPM you and your 75mm howitzer won't have enough splash to do open top damage anyway

 

 

 

Missing the point.  THis is a tier 4 light but you can danage some higher tier targets if you pick them well and aren't spotted.   And when firing at long range the derp shell is more likely to be landing on top of the tank.

 

But spotted=dead vs anything above a T4 scout.



Ze_HOFF_fverhoef #26 Posted 14 May 2014 - 07:25 AM

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View PostVeryRisky, on 13 May 2014 - 05:03 PM, said:

 

Missing the point.  THis is a tier 4 light but you can danage some higher tier targets if you pick them well and aren't spotted.   And when firing at long range the derp shell is more likely to be landing on top of the tank.

 

But spotted=dead vs anything above a T4 scout.

exactly! A tier 4 scout has 2 main weapons: speed and stealth

It's gun is just a bonus to pick lightly armoured tanks as targets.



Eminenz010 #27 Posted 29 May 2014 - 05:15 PM

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Got meself a M5 Stuart too, and it's a funny little contraption, surely far from being OP as sum stated earlier in here, but ok-ish.
Gun doesn't need fixing, since it's sufficient for other T4's and u can't ask for more on a scout.

Armour, well, it's a scout.

Mobility... decent but traverse could be better.

What I just can't understand that the 2nd turret has considerably LESS armour all around, OPEN top and is still 150kg heavier than the 1st one.

While this is surely not a gamechanging, utterly disturbing fact, it just seems highly illogical to me...

Ah yes: regarding MM: putting a M5 anywhere above Tier 6-7(which is hard enough) is just ridiculous.
Point was made that there are many hightier scouts out there that don't have to fear this crappy MM, so y should we have to do in our little friend here????


 


Edited by Heilige_Eminenz, 29 May 2014 - 05:17 PM.


Arti4You #28 Posted 29 May 2014 - 09:19 PM

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MM will be fixed in Patch 0.9.1. max. Tier 6! And for all Lights max. +2.:bush:

Edited by Arti4You, 29 May 2014 - 09:19 PM.


MrClark56 #29 Posted 30 May 2014 - 06:46 AM

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View PostHeilige_Eminenz, on 29 May 2014 - 05:15 PM, said:

Got meself a M5 Stuart too, and it's a funny little contraption, surely far from being OP as sum stated earlier in here, but ok-ish.
Gun doesn't need fixing, since it's sufficient for other T4's and u can't ask for more on a scout.

Armour, well, it's a scout.

Mobility... decent but traverse could be better.

What I just can't understand that the 2nd turret has considerably LESS armour all around, OPEN top and is still 150kg heavier than the 1st one.

While this is surely not a gamechanging, utterly disturbing fact, it just seems highly illogical to me...

Ah yes: regarding MM: putting a M5 anywhere above Tier 6-7(which is hard enough) is just ridiculous.
Point was made that there are many hightier scouts out there that don't have to fear this crappy MM, so y should we have to do in our little friend here????


 

 

 

Upgraded turret has +40m viewrange which is essential for a scout.

the worst part of the tank is its guns... the howitzer is useless.. basically its a spot for others tanks.. i cannot wait to get to chaffee and sell it.



azakow #30 Posted 30 May 2014 - 09:39 AM

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View PostArti4You, on 29 May 2014 - 10:19 PM, said:

MM will be fixed in Patch 0.9.1. max. Tier 6! And for all Lights max. +2.:bush:

It is not that simple.

 

The current spread for M5 Steart is from 4-8 battle trier (BT).

The comming release will substract one battle tier so it will be BT 4-7.

The effect is, that you will not see tier 8 vehilces anymore.

Quite different from your statment, is it?

 

 



Eminenz010 #31 Posted 30 May 2014 - 01:54 PM

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View PostMrClark56, on 30 May 2014 - 07:46 AM, said:

 

 

Upgraded turret has +40m viewrange which is essential for a scout.

 

Wasn't my point, but anyway, not that important....



Redbubble481 #32 Posted 31 May 2014 - 03:45 PM

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My experience with this tank is very mixed. I was able to kill a amx 13 75 in a circle kill in one match, taking loads of shots to kill it, the next i was 1 shot by a GWPanther the next. The main problem with using this tank as an active scout is the track treverse and the loss of speed in turning. It can work as a passive scout. But it does struggle to kill even lightly armored tanks.

 

The M5A1 on the Chinese tree is better for the slightly better gun.

 

The M5 needs a better gun just to compete evenly with other tier 4 tanks.


Edited by Redbubble481, 31 May 2014 - 03:46 PM.


Eminenz010 #33 Posted 11 June 2014 - 12:29 PM

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View PostRedbubble481, on 31 May 2014 - 04:45 PM, said:

My experience with this tank is very mixed. I was able to kill a amx 13 75 in a circle kill in one match, taking loads of shots to kill it, the next i was 1 shot by a GWPanther the next. The main problem with using this tank as an active scout is the track treverse and the loss of speed in turning. It can work as a passive scout. But it does struggle to kill even lightly armored tanks.

 

The M5A1 on the Chinese tree is better for the slightly better gun.

 

The M5 needs a better gun just to compete evenly with other tier 4 tanks.



Agreed!!!!

Just tried to pen a B1 from the side, 3 bounces, 1 hit w 8dmg... hetzer through the front LFP= 14dmg, come on, WTF??????


Edited by Heilige_Eminenz, 11 June 2014 - 12:37 PM.


DatNerdSwag #34 Posted 11 June 2014 - 02:55 PM

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Great!

They removed the terrible matchmaking but didn't buff the gun to account for it now being required as a damage dealer, so you're just forced in at low tiers where you'll be team killed by people who don't understand passive scouting, the targets you light will be ignored by your idiot team who are still new to the game, and you can't do anything more than pitiful amounts of damage, even when spamming HEAT.

Wonderful...



tambardo #35 Posted 11 June 2014 - 03:55 PM

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M5 is actually very good tank because its derp is just op. i like  when i get bottom tier mm because there is always some lights to catch and  td to route and derp penetrates many tier 8 tank rears. when it is in tier 4 its is totally op because its derp two shots every tier 4 td and 3 shots meds and if i meet hetzer just route it and shoot to sides and rear if i meet matilda or B1 i just take distance or route and load HEAT. i think that this thing is good as it is almost op

PS.my ammo load out is 30 HE and 10 HEAT


Edited by tambardo, 11 June 2014 - 03:57 PM.


Eminenz010 #36 Posted 11 June 2014 - 05:47 PM

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View Posttambardo, on 11 June 2014 - 04:55 PM, said:

M5 is actually very good tank because its derp is just op. i like  when i get bottom tier mm because there is always some lights to catch and  td to route and derp penetrates many tier 8 tank rears. when it is in tier 4 its is totally op because its derp two shots every tier 4 td and 3 shots meds and if i meet hetzer just route it and shoot to sides and rear if i meet matilda or B1 i just take distance or route and load HEAT. i think that this thing is good as it is almost op

PS.my ammo load out is 30 HE and 10 HEAT


Too much drugs? Stop hallucinating, dude...



tambardo #37 Posted 14 June 2014 - 05:29 PM

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View PostHeilige_Eminenz, on 11 June 2014 - 07:47 PM, said:


Too much drugs? Stop hallucinating, dude...

im not :P

 



MrClark56 #38 Posted 18 June 2014 - 12:22 PM

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View Posttambardo, on 14 June 2014 - 05:29 PM, said:

im not :P

 


i load gold on it to do the critical damage if required.. although i almost never fire the gun in the m5. even gold rounds have trouble doing any damage. calling it OP is i think a bit of an overstatement..

If you battle tier 5 tanks maybe.. but this tank used to meet tier 8 (since 9.1 tier 7) tanks and its hard to pen anything..

 

Even though it is a crap tank i like the idea of going in ninja and spotting for yr team and watching the enemy team get slaughtered.. those occasions are however rare and are heavily map dependent. Came 2nd in xp in a tier 8 game few weeks ago by doing a butt load of spotting damage on malinovka.. great game.. but rare game.. Road to Chaffee is really really long.



breeeze #39 Posted 25 June 2014 - 11:02 AM

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I agree, while it's probably the best tier 4 for pure scouting, the gun is just a joke... Shoot a T29 in the [edited]and sides? 0 damage. SU-152 flush in the side? 10 damage. T25/2 in the back? 23 damage. Pz III/IV from whatever direction? "That one bounced". The only tanks I can damage are ELC AMX and the tier 5 and 6 german TDs.

If I get a tier 6/7 game in a map that's bad for scouting (eg Severogorsk) I might aswell quit to garage instead of waste my time driving around in the cap circle.


Edited by breeeze, 25 June 2014 - 11:03 AM.


azakow #40 Posted 25 June 2014 - 06:21 PM

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View Postbreeeze, on 25 June 2014 - 12:02 PM, said:

I agree, while it's probably the best tier 4 for pure scouting, the gun is just a joke... Shoot a T29 in the [edited]and sides? 0 damage. SU-152 flush in the side? 10 damage. T25/2 in the back? 23 damage. Pz III/IV from whatever direction? "That one bounced". The only tanks I can damage are ELC AMX and the tier 5 and 6 german TDs.

If I get a tier 6/7 game in a map that's bad for scouting (eg Severogorsk) I might aswell quit to garage instead of waste my time driving around in the cap circle.

Now that shows alot of skill on your part. GL for other vehicle and classes. >:|






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