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Does shooting behind bushes reduce camo of other tanks behind the bushes?


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aaOzymandias #1 Posted 14 April 2014 - 12:28 AM

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Simple question, if I shoot behind a bush within 15m, does that reduce the camo values it gives to other tanks in the same 15m, or just me?

 

I would say just me, but my friend made the suggestion it can affect others, so what is it really like? :)


Edited by aaOzymandias, 14 April 2014 - 12:33 AM.


KOred #2 Posted 14 April 2014 - 12:43 AM

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No...but it tells enemy a tank is there..and they can see tracer and maybe hit a team mate instead by accident.

Edited by KOred, 14 April 2014 - 12:44 AM.


GoHard_ANIALLATOR #3 Posted 14 April 2014 - 02:04 AM

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View PostKOred, on 14 April 2014 - 12:43 AM, said:

No...but it tells enemy a tank is there..and they can see tracer and maybe hit a team mate instead by accident.

You are not able to see tracers of unspotted tanks.



KOred #4 Posted 14 April 2014 - 02:28 AM

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You CAN SEE THE SPOTTED and miss and hit the unspotted.

sgtsharp #5 Posted 14 April 2014 - 06:31 AM

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firing from within 15m of a bush will decrease the camo value bonus the bush to 30% of the original value. this applies to all tanks benefiting from the bush, not just the one who fired. if you need to fire your gun drive backwards behind the bush to outside 15m then fire then return to your original position behind the bush.



aaOzymandias #6 Posted 14 April 2014 - 08:27 AM

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View Postsgtsharp, on 14 April 2014 - 06:31 AM, said:

firing from within 15m of a bush will decrease the camo value bonus the bush to 30% of the original value. this applies to all tanks benefiting from the bush, not just the one who fired. if you need to fire your gun drive backwards behind the bush to outside 15m then fire then return to your original position behind the bush.

Interesting. But now we have two saying opposite things :)



Ricky_Baby #7 Posted 14 April 2014 - 08:59 AM

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View PostaaOzymandias, on 14 April 2014 - 09:27 AM, said:

Interesting. But now we have two saying opposite things :)

My moneys on sgtsharp being correct



ollonborre #8 Posted 14 April 2014 - 09:03 AM

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Yes sgtsharp is very much correct.

Old_Viking_DK #9 Posted 14 April 2014 - 09:24 AM

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All explaned here 

Spoiler

 



Gleb_Reawer #10 Posted 14 April 2014 - 09:53 AM

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My ingame experiences and training room trials supports KOreds statement. I was besides an ally that was hiding gehind a bush and no matter how many times I fired the 240mm gun(T92), he did not get spotted. It was bc that reduction to the camo rating of the bushes is tank specific.

 

Go and test it out.

1. Hide tank in bush.

2. Check if spotter can spot him when he shoots (and that he's hidden when not firing).

3. Take another tank and park it next to test tank and fire the gun.

 

Please post results here so we have proof of witch theory is true.

(I've already deleted the replay and the screens from our test, but I'm willing to participate in new testing. PM me ingame before sending invites so I know what's going on)

 

Regards

 

Gleb_reawer

 

Edit omg, this formatting bug on the forum :angry:

 

Edit2: omg how many spelling errors I had :hiding:. Please spare me from pointing out any that I missed, the post hould be readable by now :girl:


Edited by Gleb_Reawer, 14 April 2014 - 10:00 AM.


yun9 #11 Posted 14 April 2014 - 10:03 AM

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Your own camo bonus gets reduced as well when you fire, thus you might get spotted but your teammate won't, even though he might be closer to the bush than you. If you fire, the bush camo gets reduced to 30% and your tanks camo bonus gets something similar as well.

 

The easiest thing is just to back 15m when something is spotted, then you can benefit of the bush. But always sitting 15m behind a bush reduces you viewrange, as for the enemy as well.

If you are shooting at an enemy who is behind a bush, if he's 15m behind it or more. That bush is added to your camo bonus when you fire, since it's further away than 15m from you, and for him. The more bushes there are along the way, the more camo bonus you get. Bushes is always blocking your sight, unless you are 15m away from it. This is how the magic forest at Murovanka works etc.



aaOzymandias #12 Posted 14 April 2014 - 10:40 AM

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View PostOld_Viking, on 14 April 2014 - 10:24 AM, said:

All explaned here 

Spoiler

 

It was a nice intro to the basics, but did not actually contain any information to my question :)

 

So, it actually seem if I fire behind a bush, the environmentCamo value for my allies might also be reduced. That is interesting.



Gleb_Reawer #13 Posted 14 April 2014 - 11:04 AM

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Please do not draw conclusions from speculation, that's all it is, speculation. Trying to get 2 ppl atm to training room to make a replay to prove one or the other.

 

Anyone interrested in the truth PM me ingame and well get the true answer.

 

Regards

 

Gleb_Reawer


Edited by Gleb_Reawer, 14 April 2014 - 11:04 AM.


Gleb_Reawer #14 Posted 14 April 2014 - 12:09 PM

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Ok this is just one test but the results are pretty convincing.

 

1st, Crews of the spotter and target: AMX is spotting and E-25 is hiding

Spoiler

 

The replays of the test: 1st from the AMX spotter and the second from the "camo breaker" IS-7:

http://wotreplays.com/site/773284#malinovka-gleb_reawer-amx_13_90

http://wotreplays.com/site/773289#malinovka-gleb_reawer-is-7

 

In these replays I could spot the E-25 only when he himself was shooting, no matter where the IS-7 was his shot's didn't get the E-25 spotted. One of the shots was actually made over the E-25 with the IS-7 as close to him as possible.

 

Hope this clears some of the confusion.

 

Regards

 

Gleb_Reawer



yun9 #15 Posted 14 April 2014 - 01:12 PM

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View PostGleb_Reawer, on 14 April 2014 - 01:09 PM, said:

Ok this is just one test but the results are pretty convincing.

 

1st, Crews of the spotter and target: AMX is spotting and E-25 is hiding

Spoiler

 

The replays of the test: 1st from the AMX spotter and the second from the "camo breaker" IS-7:

http://wotreplays.com/site/773284#malinovka-gleb_reawer-amx_13_90

http://wotreplays.com/site/773289#malinovka-gleb_reawer-is-7

 

In these replays I could spot the E-25 only when he himself was shooting, no matter where the IS-7 was his shot's didn't get the E-25 spotted. One of the shots was actually made over the E-25 with the IS-7 as close to him as possible.

 

Hope this clears some of the confusion.

 

Regards

 

Gleb_Reawer

 

You forget two things.

1) E-25 has a LOT higher camo value, therefor it's not as easily spotted, and the reduced bush camo + it's own camo (when it's not shooting) will suffice.

2. If the E 25 was just one millimetre more away than 15m, it isn't affected by the reduced bush value.



hedi2222 #16 Posted 14 April 2014 - 01:43 PM

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View PostKOred, on 13 April 2014 - 11:43 PM, said:

No...but it tells enemy a tank is there..and they can see tracer and maybe hit a team mate instead by accident.

happend to me once in lakeville , got hit by a BL-9 in my t44 who has 100% camo skills because of an idiot tier 6 who said : ohh , the T44 isnt spotted , lets parc behind him ! 



Gleb_Reawer #17 Posted 14 April 2014 - 02:04 PM

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View Postkolnidur, on 14 April 2014 - 01:12 PM, said:

 

You forget two things.

1) E-25 has a LOT higher camo value, therefor it's not as easily spotted, and the reduced bush camo + it's own camo (when it's not shooting) will suffice.

2. If the E 25 was just one millimetre more away than 15m, it isn't affected by the reduced bush value.

 

1. What tank would you like to have as the target, so you would be convinced by the evidence?

 

2. This was not the point of this thread or the experiment, but yes you might be right, but only if you can prove that allies firing guns actually reduce your camo from said bushes. Miss read that, yes if you are more than 15m behind a bush, it will retain it's camovalue towards you even if you fire your gun.

 

Now I'd like to see some evidence that contradicts my findings, please. Not really happy about the idea of going trough all my, my mates, clan members and random peoples tanks to show how it works with each one.


Edited by Gleb_Reawer, 14 April 2014 - 02:16 PM.


Seekless #18 Posted 14 April 2014 - 02:14 PM

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As far as I got the mechanics of this game camo is a value of your tank, if there is a bush between you and and enemy tank (line of sights) then there is a camo multiplier added to your tanks camo value.

 

So if you shoot then only your camo value drops for an amount of time, nothing happens to the bush and hence other players.

 

Summary: Bushes do not have camo values they give a multiplication factor to your tanks camo value hence only your actions can change your camo value not others.



KOred #19 Posted 14 April 2014 - 02:15 PM

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Block Quote

 

happend to me once in lakeville , got hit by a BL-9 in my t44 who has 100% camo skills because of an idiot tier 6 who said : ohh , the T44 isnt spotted , lets parc behind him ! 

 

 

Same sort of thing happened to me hedi..shot at a tank..shell went underneath and gibbed a tank I hadn't seen behind it.

 

Hate it also when a Tank tries to hid in the same bush as my TD...Restricts my ability to turn and can block some of my side shots..Also if he gets spotted, I can get accidental secondary fire.

 

Either that or i'm forced to relocate to a worse secondary position.



Gleb_Reawer #20 Posted 14 April 2014 - 02:26 PM

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View PostSeekless, on 14 April 2014 - 02:14 PM, said:

As far as I got the mechanics of this game camo is a value of your tank, if there is a bush between you and and enemy tank (line of sights) then there is a camo multiplier added to your tanks camo value.

 

So if you shoot then only your camo value drops for an amount of time, nothing happens to the bush and hence other players.

 

Summary: Bushes do not have camo values they give a multiplication factor to your tanks camo value hence only your actions can change your camo value not others.

 

Almost right, the underlined part is wrong, but not by mutch. Quote from wiki: "However, as soon as a tank fires its gun, the environment bonuses within the 15m radius no longer stack. Instead, only the bonus from the bush with the highest camouflage bonus is taken into account. In addition, the bonus from that bush is reduced to 30% of its original value"

 

In this example they're talking about a 1 vs 1 situation. The thing they fail to mention is that the bonuses for other tanks within that 15m radius doesn't change provided they don't shoot themselves.

 

+1 to you sir

 

Regards

 

Gleb_Reawer






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