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Why HESH only with rifled guns?


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Bird_Dog #1 Posted 16 April 2014 - 10:55 PM

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A question, that has been bugging me for some time.
Acording to this wikipedia article, a rifled barrel is necessary for firing HESH rounds.

Why?

Does the desired "cow pat" pattern for the explosive prior to detonation require the centrifugal force of a spinning shell?

I don't think so, but I am hardly an expert in weapon tech.



Woody1999 #2 Posted 16 April 2014 - 11:56 PM

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From Wikipedia:

 

Block Quote

 Another reason for the declining use of HESH rounds is the preference of most armies for smoothbore cannons, since a HESH shell is reliant upon rifling (spin) to be accurate.

 

I suppose there's your answer.

 

Woody



Bird_Dog #3 Posted 17 April 2014 - 12:17 AM

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No. To stabilise a shell in flight you use either spinn stabilisation or fin stabilisation (as in APFSDS shells), but since there are fin stabilised HEAT shells, there is no balistic or aerodynamic reason why you can't use fin stabilisation for HESH rounds as well.

Woody1999 #4 Posted 17 April 2014 - 01:00 AM

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View PostBird_Dog, on 17 April 2014 - 12:17 AM, said:

No. To stabilise a shell in flight you use either spinn stabilisation or fin stabilisation (as in APFSDS shells), but since there are fin stabilised HEAT shells, there is no balistic or aerodynamic reason why you can't use fin stabilisation for HESH rounds as well.

 

I don't know mate, I'm not the ballistics expert. I'm just presenting other peoples' knowledge to you.

 

The only reason I can think of is a matter of chronology. Maybe by the time HESH shells were phased out by the British army, they hadn't even come up with the idea of fin stabilisation?

 

I'd love to see you build a smoothbore tank gun, and fire a fin stabilised HESH shell to test it! :veryhappy:

 

It might work, you never know.

 

Woody



Ohaithar #5 Posted 17 April 2014 - 05:43 PM

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HESH shells are short while APFSDS shells are very long (60-90 cm). Due to the length of the penetrator on APFSDS, an insanely high twist rate is required, hence why there's fin stabilization. HESH on the other hand, being short and fat (less propellant since the shell goes at 657 m/s for the L30 compared to the APFSDS that exceeds 1.5k m/s), benefit more from rifling since they are shorter shells. Since they are short, the twist rate needed for them is relatively low. And yes, the shells need to be relatively short in order to add more explosive, since less metal is required to withstand the stress from drag.

 

Yep, it's definitely an accuracy thing.


Edited by Ohaithar, 17 April 2014 - 05:44 PM.


Bird_Dog #6 Posted 17 April 2014 - 08:20 PM

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Yes, I know you can't spin stabilise an APFSDS penetrator du to the diameter:length ratio. Thats why the brits use a special "spin canceling" sabot to fire APFSDS from rifled barels.

Personaly, I'd say a HESH round is about the same size as a HEAT round of the same calibre. And you can fin stabilise them, since both the germans and die americans fire them form the Rheinmetal 120mil. And a HEAT round to is much slower than a APFSDS.

I think the information wikipeida has on the subject might just be an oversimplification. Nations using smoothbore guns probably just nerver saw the need for a HESH round, and therfore never developed one to be fired from smoothbore guns.



pie_eater #7 Posted 18 April 2014 - 01:24 PM

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Smoothbore guns squeeze shells to be more accurate, thus meaning that a HESH shell would just explode when shot from a smoothbore.

Edited by pie_eater, 21 April 2014 - 11:50 AM.





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