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VK 2801 is it still worth it?


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Tazilon #21 Posted 07 May 2014 - 09:19 PM

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View PostCostarring, on 07 May 2014 - 10:00 AM, said:

 

Since when are LT's made for sniping? If you are sniping (on a regular basis) in a LT you are doing something wrong...

Auto cannons are not for sniping either.

 

You want to park behind a heavy, unload in the engine bay, and drive away for a reload.  (basically)

With a bit of luck (happens pretty often...) the engine will catch on fire if you manage to get a full clip in.

 

 

Another victim of the Myths of Scouting.  Many Scouts are excellent snipers.  They have great View Range and  camo value - a perfect combination for Sniping. I would argue that if you are a scout and you are not frequently combining your View Range and camo value advantage to get free damage, you are doing something wrong.


Edited by Tazilon, 07 May 2014 - 09:19 PM.


anonym_kL7qtn3e52MB #22 Posted 08 May 2014 - 08:19 AM

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View PostFlinsenberger, on 07 May 2014 - 08:06 PM, said:

Funny. Light tanks scout and have high maneuverability. The main goal is not to be seen. This includes being in cover or popping up on a flanking position. When having the opportunity you shoot at targets that do not point their gun in your direction.

 

In every other tank than Leopard or Luchs it is irrelevant at what distance that happens. You see the side or rear of a tank, you are concealed and stationary, you shoot. E.g. being in Malinovka at the lake shooting at the hill. Luchs and Leopard have autobounce at 250m. I once had a game, encounter on El Halluf, where I couldnt reset cap against an Pz38nA, although I could hit him. Autobounce.

 

Please stop telling other people what their tank is supposed to do, when 85% of similar tanks can exactly do that. I think you have a misconception about what it means to play a scout. It involves shooting. And if Iu cant hit anything that is more than 250m away that kinda makes your better viewrange obsolete. Because you shoot them when they cant see you. Sometimes that means concealment, sometimes that means distance. And when its distance, the process of aimed shooting at distant targets is called sniping.

 

"When having the opportunity you shoot at targets that do not point their gun in your direction."

 

Once you start shooting, you stop scouting.

 

 

 

 

View PostTazilon, on 07 May 2014 - 10:19 PM, said:

 

Another victim of the Myths of Scouting.  Many Scouts are excellent snipers.  They have great View Range and  camo value - a perfect combination for Sniping. I would argue that if you are a scout and you are not frequently combining your View Range and camo value advantage to get free damage, you are doing something wrong.

 

"I would argue that if you are a scout and you are not frequently combining your View Range and camo value advantage to get free damage, you are doing something wrong"

 

Never heard of fire discipline....

Once you start shooting, you are done spotting. Which is your prime task.

 

 

I tend to squeeze as many "spotting minutes" before I start using my gun. No matter how many juicy targets I have (unless it's a dangerous autoloader that can be QUICKLY 1 or 2 shot by me)

 

 

No sir, I'm not a victim. Most LT drivers are victim to WN8 though....

WN8 makes people play their LT"s as meds (which they are not).

 

WG's idea to fix LT"s by sticking bigger guns on them is what is wrong

Not every LT tank performs as good as the VK28.01 in HEAT (pun intended).

 

 



FafnirDrake #23 Posted 08 May 2014 - 09:08 AM

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You both have good points. Ultimately, scouting is a complex role with no set method. They are entirely opportunistic and have to play the game battle-by-battle. Tazilon's right in scouts often being fairly good snipers. And the man has more battles in Light Tanks than any other player, as far as I know. He knows his stuff.

Aside from his asinine insistence that the Awful Panther is anything resembling useful. When it's a worthless pile of crap on a good day. Funny. It's already a downgrade to the 2801. And they're buffing the 2801 again, which makes it even better by comparison. Not complaining to the buff on the 2801, though I don't know why they think it really needs it.


Anyways, in answer to the OP: Yes. The 2801 is still a great tank.

Flinsenberger #24 Posted 08 May 2014 - 10:28 AM

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View PostCostarring, on 08 May 2014 - 09:19 AM, said:

 

"When having the opportunity you shoot at targets that do not point their gun in your direction."

 

Once you start shooting, you stop scouting.

 

"I would argue that if you are a scout and you are not frequently combining your View Range and camo value advantage to get free damage, you are doing something wrong"

 

Never heard of fire discipline....

Once you start shooting, you are done spotting. Which is your prime task.

 

 

I tend to squeeze as many "spotting minutes" before I start using my gun. No matter how many juicy targets I have (unless it's a dangerous autoloader that can be QUICKLY 1 or 2 shot by me)

 

 

No sir, I'm not a victim. Most LT drivers are victim to WN8 though....

WN8 makes people play their LT"s as meds (which they are not).

 

WG's idea to fix LT"s by sticking bigger guns on them is what is wrong

Not every LT tank performs as good as the VK28.01 in HEAT (pun intended).

 

 

 

Allow me to disagree to parts of what you said.

There are many methods to shoot without being seen. You - as a proficient light tank player - know them. Of course, when you are in the front and spot for your team, you don't shoot. Of course, when you shoot and get seen you usually don't, because you don't want to compromise your position.

 

But especially in the situation that you are far away and have shots at targets that will not see you even if you shoot (be it because of concealment or range, e.g. Lakeville F5), then you shoot them. And it makes no difference to your scouting. And in that situation the 250m autobounce autocannon of the Leopard VK16.02 is abysmal. Because you just can't play it that way. You can't scout and have shots of opportunity. You can only passive scout or go into a brawl with tanks that can usually oneshot you, therefore removing two your strengths, stealth and small size, from the equation. (EDIT: The Leopard VK1602 with the Mk3 is just not able to shoot at opponents that you outspot, e.g. in the lategame, because over those distances his gun autobounces)

And the engine fires happen - even with sharpshooter - on too rare an occasion to be worthwile the tradeoff in range and dpm. The Mk3 was imho an experiment, and it failed. At least the 3-shot-a-bullet version on the Leopard. On the Luchs the 2-shot-a-bullet version performs well, since it doesn't have the precision loss of the 3rd bullet and does relatively more damage against it's opponents.

 

Therefore I think the VK2801 is way better than the Leopard. Might be different if the Leopard had a better gun, because I actually like the handling of the Leopard more than the VK2801 (although it's values are better).


Edited by Flinsenberger, 08 May 2014 - 10:30 AM.


Tazilon #25 Posted 10 May 2014 - 07:31 AM

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View PostCostarring, on 08 May 2014 - 07:19 AM, said:

 

"When having the opportunity you shoot at targets that do not point their gun in your direction."

 

Once you start shooting, you stop scouting.

 

 

 

 

 

"I would argue that if you are a scout and you are not frequently combining your View Range and camo value advantage to get free damage, you are doing something wrong"

 

Never heard of fire discipline....

Once you start shooting, you are done spotting. Which is your prime task.

 

 

I tend to squeeze as many "spotting minutes" before I start using my gun. No matter how many juicy targets I have (unless it's a dangerous autoloader that can be QUICKLY 1 or 2 shot by me)

 

 

No sir, I'm not a victim. Most LT drivers are victim to WN8 though....

WN8 makes people play their LT"s as meds (which they are not).

 

WG's idea to fix LT"s by sticking bigger guns on them is what is wrong

Not every LT tank performs as good as the VK28.01 in HEAT (pun intended).

 

 

 

Leave WNx out of the equation.  If you follow my posts at all, you know I detest WNx.  It is a joke.  I would be the last person in WOT to play with farming WNx in mind.

 

You ARE a victim though.  The mere fact you chastise 2 players for promoting firing when possible demonstrates your belief in the Myths.  While there are certainly many times one can not shoot while passive spotting, there are also many times when one CAN safely fire while spotting.  Only when Scouts mature and grow beyond the Myths, can they take the step from good to great.  

 

In my recent tutorial on Scout Roles on the NA forums, I conclude by stating the following:

 

 

Quote

Bad Scouts never advance past learning the basics of the Suicide Rush

Average Scouts learn several of them.

Good Scouts learn them all

Great Scouts know them all and Scout in ways which allow them to perform multiple roles at the same time.

 

Because of your superior View Range and Camo, Spotting and Sniping are natural bedmates; they can be successfully combined quite frequently once you let go of the standard paradigms of Scouting. 

 

By the way, here are a few of my stats in my VK 28.01.  Compare them to yours and see how you stack up:  But when you compare consider this:  I played the VK 28.01 even when it wasn't cool.  I played when everyone else said it sucked and wouldn't go near it.  So my stats are tempered by the long periods of time when 95% of the Scouts in the game said the 28.01 was a dog.

 

VK 28.01:

Max XP: 3,798

Avg XP: 814

Kills:  42,677

Max Kills: 11

Kills/Battle: 1.16

Kills/Death: .1.71

Spots/Battle: unknown at the moment because I just purchased a new computer and am downloading the game as I write this, so I can't check, however over the last month, I averaged 3.34 spots/game for all my tanks, the 28.01 is higher but not sure how much.  Its number would put me in the top 50 for spotting for the entire NA server.

I  won the Light Tank Marathon last year for the VK 28.01 on the NA server and my score beat the top EU score, too.

I have the most Orliks on the NA server and the most Kamikazes on the NA/EU/SEA servers.

 

I'm not posting this to brag,   I am posting it to put what I am saying into context.  My battle count on the EU forums reads 0 but I actually have 36, 685 battles under my belt-  in the VK 28.01 alone.

 

Open your mind on Scout play.  The conventional wisdom (CW) for Scouts got stuck on training mode.  Once you master the basics (and your stats seem to indicate you have), you must drop the restrictive chains of CW and the Myths.  Dive off the cliff of conformity and you will see your Win Rate jump several more rungs up the ladder.

 

Again, I am not advocating running around firing your gun like a maniac.  I am telling you that you need to take the next step and learn when it is ok to spot AND snipe.  If you go to the PROSCout Hall of Fame and browse the hundreds of YouTubes you will soon realize the Hills are Alive with the Sound of Sniper Fire,,,

 

Happy Hunting!

 

PS:  if you are using HEAT often in a 28.01, you are doing it wrong. HEAT sucks on the 28.01.

 

 

 


Edited by Tazilon, 10 May 2014 - 07:36 AM.


Temptis #26 Posted 14 May 2014 - 12:41 AM

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i'm by no means Taz but...

 

http://wotreplays.co...temptis-vk_2801



kr1stjan98 #27 Posted 14 May 2014 - 08:22 PM

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VK2801 is not very good light tank. Auf.p is better in my opinion.

FafnirDrake #28 Posted 15 May 2014 - 05:43 AM

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View Postkr1stjan98, on 14 May 2014 - 09:22 PM, said:

VK2801 is not very good light tank. Auf.p is better in my opinion.


Sir, I'm afraid I must insist you apologize for that slanderous accusation, or you shall be hearing from legal representation.



Tazilon #29 Posted 15 May 2014 - 02:21 PM

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View Postkr1stjan98, on 14 May 2014 - 08:22 PM, said:

VK2801 is not very good light tank. Auf.p is better in my opinion.

 

 

Based on your stats, you would think that, but you have never figured out how to play the VK 28.01.



stryker000 #30 Posted 17 May 2014 - 04:46 PM

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Proof:

 

Is it worth it?

 

 

 

 

'nough said



SympathyForTheDevil #31 Posted 18 May 2014 - 08:14 PM

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I can't stop collecting Aces badges today....

 

http://wotreplays.eu...ublecro-vk_2801

 

http://wotreplays.eu...ublecro-vk_2801

 

And i can't wait for buff any my sixth sense to turn on as a third skill (rookies errors,I know) 



Tazilon #32 Posted 18 May 2014 - 11:06 PM

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View Posttroublecro, on 18 May 2014 - 08:14 PM, said:

I can't stop collecting Aces badges today....

 

http://wotreplays.eu...ublecro-vk_2801

 

http://wotreplays.eu...ublecro-vk_2801

 

And i can't wait for buff any my sixth sense to turn on as a third skill (rookies errors,I know) 

 

 

Must be nice to be logged in there.   The login button is currenty broken so if you get logged out you're out of the loop til they fix it.



Temptis #33 Posted 19 May 2014 - 11:42 AM

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had the same issue with this forum a few minutes ago Taz.

delete the PW Cache and Cookies for all WoT sites and it works (openid transfer messup)


Edited by Temptis, 19 May 2014 - 11:43 AM.


BlueDaedricDragon #34 Posted 19 May 2014 - 11:04 PM

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View PostTazilon, on 19 May 2014 - 12:06 AM, said:

 

 

Must be nice to be logged in there.   The login button is currenty broken so if you get logged out you're out of the loop til they fix it.

wotreplays.eu/site/openidlogin

 

That worked for me, found that out on the NA Server forums.



Tall_Toot #35 Posted 16 June 2014 - 12:10 PM

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Any one have any feedback playing the buffed (?) VK2801 after 9.1?

 

Really interested to know as I'm thinking of buying her back. Cheers!



Eila_Juutilainen #36 Posted 16 June 2014 - 12:17 PM

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I never really played it before the buff, but I grinded it out yesterday in one long session. Personally, I thought it was a great tank. Not super speedy or stealthy, but it's a great supporter and can actually deal quite a bit of damage on it's own. At 2AM I sold it reluctantly and bought the Afk Panther, which I might not have done if there was no upcoming RU251 :sad:

BlueDaedricDragon #37 Posted 17 June 2014 - 10:44 PM

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View PostEila_Juutilainen, on 16 June 2014 - 01:17 PM, said:

I never really played it before the buff, but I grinded it out yesterday in one long session. Personally, I thought it was a great tank. Not super speedy or stealthy, but it's a great supporter and can actually deal quite a bit of damage on it's own. At 2AM I sold it reluctantly and bought the Afk Panther, which I might not have done if there was no upcoming RU251 :sad:

I do recommend rebuying the VK 28.01. It is a bit of a special tank considering it can mount a 105mm derp. It has to be one of my favorite light tanks in the game right now. After the buff it become even better.



Orlunu #38 Posted 17 June 2014 - 11:04 PM

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Haven't played at all since before the patch, but I'm going to come back just to see what love my favourite little cutie's been given.  It sounds like I may well carry on playing the game every now and then just in this little beauty.

Tall_Toot #39 Posted 18 June 2014 - 07:25 AM

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Thanls for the replies; rebought it and just waiting for a sale to retrain a spare med crew onto it :smile:



Eila_Juutilainen #40 Posted 18 June 2014 - 09:21 AM

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View PostJJ2Gamer, on 17 June 2014 - 11:44 PM, said:

I do recommend rebuying the VK 28.01. It is a bit of a special tank considering it can mount a 105mm derp. It has to be one of my favorite light tanks in the game right now. After the buff it become even better.


I might, eventually. Already have a lot of German LTs, and I was thinking of rebuying Luchs already :P






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