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Preliminary Report No2/0 - The Soviet T-34-76


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Community #1 Posted 25 April 2014 - 04:28 PM

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Richard “The_Challenger” Cutland looks at what happened when the School of Tank Technology in Chertsey, UK got its hands on a Soviet T-34-76 in 1943.

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Breadstick72 #2 Posted 25 April 2014 - 05:09 PM

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wow 

krazypenguin #3 Posted 25 April 2014 - 05:31 PM

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@ Richard - do you know why or how they received the tank?  I mean, did the Russians willingly just send them it?  I ask because I cannot imagine how else they might have acquired it but at the same time, for some reason, I wouldn't have expected the Soviets to send them one, even though they were allies at the time...just seems like the sort of thing they wouldn't do, since cooperation was often strained  (Though I do recall reading somewhere that they sent captured German naval codes to Britain which were invaluable).

 

P.S - Great article - more of this sort of thing is always welcome!


Edited by krazypenguin, 25 April 2014 - 05:40 PM.


dice3000 #4 Posted 25 April 2014 - 05:41 PM

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excellent article

ClassicFrog #5 Posted 25 April 2014 - 05:50 PM

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 The report therefore noted a welded hull and cast turret offering excellent ballistic protection but limited splash protection.

 

I'm not familiar with metallurgy issues. Why would it offer only limited splash protection? Would riveted hull and a turret made of few steel plates put together be more resistant to the splash then?

DemolitionDmitrij #6 Posted 25 April 2014 - 05:59 PM

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So it was crap?

 

Only good because it can be produced in masses and because of the fact that the soviet union became industrialized shortly before war. Otherwise a absolute nightmare for the crew and very sloppy manufactured tank. Did i get this right?



jaskap77 #7 Posted 25 April 2014 - 06:04 PM

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What I'd think the splash protection refers to is metal hardness. The harder the metal, more easily it cracks. So, I guess this would suggest that armor on T-34 would be susceptible to steel actually spalling (and cause fragments inside the tank)

 

Anyways, I did a post awhile ago on mythbusting T-34 and I can back the report based on my personal experiences...

 

Link to topic

http://forum.worldof...ing-tanks-t-34/



Ulfhedinn_ #8 Posted 25 April 2014 - 06:21 PM

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View PostClassicFrog, on 25 April 2014 - 05:50 PM, said:

 

I'm not familiar with metallurgy issues. Why would it offer only limited splash protection? Would riveted hull and a turret made of few steel plates put together be more resistant to the splash then?

 

I think it's saying the seam welding was poor, so a ballistic shot into a plate would be stopped (because the seam wouldn't be particularly stressed by that), but a HE explosion would stress the whole tank, particularly the poorly welded seams that would be critical in resisting the push of the HE shock wave. The Italian tanks were terrible for it, they were all bolted together (and not well bolted / riveted like British stuff after their years of experience ship riveting), a HE round exploded near an Iti tank, the bolt heads would be shorn away and the armour plates would literally just fall off. I'm guessing it must have been something similar with the poorly welded Russian ones (but not nearly as bad).

 

Great article, thanks WG :-) It would be interesting though (as has already been said) to find out how the British got a T-34. And I'm looking forward to the accuracy nerf on those badly sighted Rusky tanks, "especially at longer ranges". Oh, AND all the critical hits to the loader you'll have to apply on Rusky tanks now you know they used to blow up the detonators with a tin opener :-)


Edited by Maxmk6, 25 April 2014 - 06:31 PM.


nejc #9 Posted 25 April 2014 - 06:59 PM

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Speedo (Marked up to 134 km)

 

Ok it wasn't a slow tank, but this was pretty optimistic :tongue:



jupp3 #10 Posted 25 April 2014 - 08:23 PM

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I think it was best article ever, thank you! Please mOAR!!!

jagdcommander #11 Posted 26 April 2014 - 12:02 AM

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View Postkrazypenguin, on 25 April 2014 - 06:31 PM, said:

@ Richard - do you know why or how they received the tank?  I mean, did the Russians willingly just send them it?  I ask because I cannot imagine how else they might have acquired it but at the same time, for some reason, I wouldn't have expected the Soviets to send them one, even though they were allies at the time...just seems like the sort of thing they wouldn't do, since cooperation was often strained  (Though I do recall reading somewhere that they sent captured German naval codes to Britain which were invaluable).

 

P.S - Great article - more of this sort of thing is always welcome!

 

Yes - that would be interesting to know. Bearing in mind the number of tanks sent from Britain to Russia on the Arctic convoys, I imagine sending one of their own back was the least they could do?



Hammerhead_CZ #12 Posted 26 April 2014 - 10:00 AM

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Good try, but since we don't know whether it is T34/76A (B, C, D, E or F), it is not so useful as it could be. Pls update the article. It would be interesting to know, which variant was available to UK army for investigations.

The_Challenger #13 Posted 26 April 2014 - 10:44 AM

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View PostHammerhead_CZ, on 26 April 2014 - 10:00 AM, said:

Good try, but since we don't know whether it is T34/76A (B, C, D, E or F), it is not so useful as it could be. Pls update the article. It would be interesting to know, which variant was available to UK army for investigations.

 

The reason is simple because the report makes no reference to variant and I wanted it to maintain purely report factual, why is there no mention of variant well :As we know the T-34 has been known by at least three different designation systems in publications printed in English, most common used is the German designation system you are referring to (adopted by the German Military Intelligence during the War) with the A-F identity system.This system then began to be replaced by the system that was believed to be the more in keeping with the Soviet identification so using the based model numbers with four standard designations eg Model 1942 and Model 1943 for the final version with the hexagonal turret. Then there of course is the theory put forward by "Robert Michulecs" who said there is no official system at all in reality for identifying the different variants and it was just an attempt (post war) to get order out of chaos. The records show that factory variations were vast as an example Factory No 183 made over 5500 changes to the vehicle between 1940-41 and another 10000 plus before the end of the war, which goes a long way to prove his theory above. 

 

 

 



Hammerhead_CZ #14 Posted 26 April 2014 - 10:52 AM

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View PostThe_Challenger, on 26 April 2014 - 11:44 AM, said:

 

The reason is simple because the report makes no reference to variant and I wanted it to maintain purely report factual, why is there no mention of variant well :As we know the T-34 has been known by at least three different designation systems in publications printed in English, most common used is the German designation system you are referring to (adopted by the German Military Intelligence during the War) with the A-F identity system.This system then began to be replaced by the system that was believed to be the more in keeping with the Soviet identification so using the based model numbers with four standard designations eg Model 1942 and Model 1943 for the final version with the hexagonal turret. Then there of course is the theory put forward by "Robert Michulecs" who said there is no official system at all in reality for identifying the different variants and it was just an attempt (post war) to get order out of chaos. The records show that factory variations were vast as an example Factory No 183 made over 5500 changes to the vehicle between 1940-41 and another 10000 plus before the end of the war, which goes a long way to prove his theory above. 

 

 

 


Thx for clarification, but since you use designation T34/76, it resembles a German tag, which should be accompanied by a letter. Russian designation would be T34 model "year". My point is, do you know, whether Russians sent them some of the obsolete types with already known weaknesses? Or UK engineers made a review of the latest and the most advanced T34?


Edited by Hammerhead_CZ, 26 April 2014 - 10:53 AM.


TigerKingT #15 Posted 26 April 2014 - 07:44 PM

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View PostHammerhead_CZ, on 26 April 2014 - 10:52 AM, said:


Thx for clarification, but since you use designation T34/76, it resembles a German tag, which should be accompanied by a letter. Russian designation would be T34 model "year". My point is, do you know, whether Russians sent them some of the obsolete types with already known weaknesses? Or UK engineers made a review of the latest and the most advanced T34?

Looking at Wikipedia and the image of the armour values, I would guess a 1941 version, B or C, couldn't be any other since they were 1943 versions (introduced in 42, yea) which had the newer hexagonal turret.

 

So to answer your question they probobly sent over an older version.

 

Edit: If the sketches are anything to go by, the tank sent over would be a T34/76C since some had the headlight moved to the left, which is where the headlight is located on the sketch. But I can't be certain, so it could be a B, but I've never heard of these A,B,C designations, so forgive me if I made a mistake.


Edited by TigerKingT, 26 April 2014 - 07:52 PM.


laceleste #16 Posted 26 April 2014 - 10:17 PM

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Interesting article, thanks.

sword_of_Damocles #17 Posted 27 April 2014 - 02:16 PM

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Nice reading

petya75 #18 Posted 28 April 2014 - 03:54 PM

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Nice article thanks!




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