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When are the dev team ever going to realise this? German tanks, and in particular the Tiger I, but also the Panther and the Tiger II, is what generates the interest in WW II era tanks. Not the Tridsattjetwerka, not the KV, not the IS, not the Sherman or any other tank.

Why is it then that the WoT-Tiger is so weak and gives so much XP that EVERYONE concentrates their fire on it? One thing is certain - while the WoT design team MAY have read all the relevant figures, they do not understand them and what they represent. IRL, according to official US Army statistics compiled during the latter part of 1944, it took no less than five Shermans (M4A4W) or nine T-34/85s to knock out ONE Tiger. In the game, both Shermans and T-34/85 snack on Tigers which is ridiculous!

The simple facts are:
* While the Tiger may have had "only" 100 mm on the front, 110 mm on the turret front and 80 mm everywhere else, it was GERMAN armour of the highest quality and equivalent to some 125-140 mm of US armour plate and nominal 140 - 170 mm Soviet armour (Soviet armour plates tended to be less thick and of lower quality than specifications called for).
* German guns - 7.5 cm KwK/PAK 42 L/70, 8.8 cm KwK 36 L/56 and 8.8 cm KwK 43 L/71 - had no problems whatsoever to shoot straight through any Soviet T-34, be it T-34 M1943 or T-34/85, from the front or sides at ranges well over 1000 - 1500 m. This was in part due to the high velocity and accuracy, but also because German shells were made of rolled steel, not cast like Soviet shells.
* It was not until the Soviets mounted the 122 mm A19 gun on the IS that the Tiger I had an opponent on the battlefield that had a realistic chance against it (the Tiger B was never matched during the war or even before the 1960s).

In the Game:
* The Tiger is shot through, with ease, by almost every fully upgraded Tier V tank and above
* The German guns referred to above are often unable to shoot through even the sides of other tanks at close range. This is especially true of the bugged US T29 (which in-game closely resembles what the Tiger should be - an impervious brute that takes a hell of a lot to kill).

In short, the WoT Tiger I is nothing but easy experience for everyone else and plays like a real-life Panzerkampfwagen III on 1944 battlefields. While it would perhaps not be possible to adjust the game to reflect the true power of the Tiger I, Panther and Tiger B, the "nerfing" you have subjected them to is absolutely risible - as you ought to be aware of by now as a plethora of threads have said the same.

Now, you would do well to remember that neither the Soviets nor the Americans would have been able to go into space and to the Moon during the 1960s without German technology and do put an end to this Soviet-jingoistic misrepresentation. Your game - WoT - is marketed on the fame of the German tanks. Please make their in-game characteristics conform a bit more.

Thread moved to more appropriate section of the forums.

---Orree
Edited by Orree, 11 June 2012 - 03:43 PM.

Shhhhh! Disrespecting anything Russian is a sure fire way to have your forum account banned! But I agree. I started playing this game to play German tanks due to their infamous reputation.

I hated the tiger before 064 but now its alot more survivable at least when i play.  I tend to hang back alot more tho now and try to be long range support which suits my TD play style.

Also i duno how but im killing stuff alot better now as well maybe because of the survivability means im getting the more hits to target more but whatever it is i like it.

Dont fear is3 as much as i used to either as ive killed a few now where as before i used to ding em all the time.  Tho that might be just me learning to aim better.  I find if u dont sniper too much i can get alot better damage on em.

All of you Tiger commanders must remember that the IS-3 got paper armor at the upper side armor, right above the threads in the middle.

 Sturmtiger_304, on 29 May 2011 - 11:26 PM, said:

Yeah, it is a nice spot to exploit when IS-3 focuses someone else... But then it turns to face you with its strongest armor and you suddenly remember that all of YOUR tank is made of paper.

Never played the Tiger, but just a few games earlier, I engaged one with my E8, he was shooting another tank but I had clear view on him, about 250m, frontal. Shot about 5 times before someone else destroyed it. All were penetrating, damaging hits.

Now, seriously? the M1A2 gun could have never penetrated a Tiger that easily in reality. I know it's 250m but by the game standards, that should represent something way above 1km in reality.

It's true that one of the reasons I've always liked Tanks is the Tiger and German tanks in general. I've started grinding the german heavy line, I'm at the PzIII right now but I don really know if I want to continue, since of all the tier VII heavies, I simply laugh at the tiger with my E8 (Tier 6 med, remember) while I god damn hate the guts of that t29, that tank should be banned! :@

Main problem with WoT and historic German tanks comes down to map size imo.
According to the US tanker Tom Sator* even the PzIV with the long 75 would open fire at ranges of 1100-1400m and score hits while the M4 Sherman had to get within 450-550m.
This is not possible in this game cause spotting range is too low and map size is too small. What made the German tanks so good was
-accurate guns
-supperb optics
-better radio communications **

All of these assets are negated in this game, and I can from a gaming viewpoint understand why, but I also see why this leads to alot of unhappy people.



*as told in "Panzers at war" by Michael and Gladys Green
**During -41 usually only the company commander would have a radio set in Russian tank companies, the rest would rely on flag signals.




Terje

Just got some stats from the game

KV 13 with the 13m turret without the gun, radio, engine and suspension weights 25 tonnes

It's armor: 100 85 60 hull, 100 90 90 turret and it can go 60kmh fast!!!

In the same manner, the Tiger weights 35.5 tonnes

has an armor of: 100 80 80/ 100 80 80 and can go only 30km fast.

Where is the logic here?

EDIT:

Also, the biggest thing that made the tiger that 'light' is it's suspension of 18000kg, compared to the 8000kg of the kv13. Now tell me, why should a tank that weights only 10 tonnes more have a suspension 10 tonnes heavier that still turns only 24deg/sec compared to the 38 of the kv 13? Where is the logic here too?

 lfcfan, on 30 May 2011 - 12:10 AM, said:

ummm 35.5 tonne for Tiger?    stock tiger weighs 54.98 tonne so not sure how you got 35 tonne as a figure.

If all the tanks use only the guns they used during ww2, hell yes, Tiger would be a pain. As most vehicles can access the "projected" guns, so does the Tiger I get blasted many times.

So you'll have to adapt.

____________________________


I advise to participate in one of the Historical Battle events. You'll be limited to historical accuracy setups. You'll check out the true WoT potential realism wise...

Back in Leningrad battle event, the german army had to face a KV... with 50mm, 37mm and short barrel guns. Guess what. Yes, happened the same as in history. We just couldn't knock him off.

That is the exact point Hetwill_Khan, all tanks get fantasy guns (like KV 107mm, T34-85 100mm) with insane damage for their tier/timeframe, but the Tiger only gets the 88mm L71, with poor damage but great penetration. This gun is even stock on the King Tiger. Give this gun a damage buff, along with a damage/penetration buff for the KwK and PaK 88mm L56, and you fix the german tanks.

I just wish WG would remove the "Gun size does matter" rule.

Answer seems rather simple to find.
WG could not have sold whatever kind of WW2 flavored tank game without the Big Cat.
As you said, no one cares about soviet armor. And seemingly not so many Russian players, as many of them play the German line.
In the same time, it seems WG hates anything related to Germany. At least as far as WW2 is concerned.
So, they use German tanks as a commercial asset, but in the same time do their best to underrate them.
Dishonesty is a poor substitute to intelligence.

People interested in this game for its historic side should be aware that this game is not a historic simulation. It's not even trying to be, nor was it ever intended to be.

Wanting the Tiger and Panther to 'live up to their historic reputation' would basically involve battles against stock tier 5's in them. I'm betting the same people who complain about the Tiger are also the people who complain all the time about being matched with higher tier tanks.

Oh and the Tiger is fine. So is the Panther.

I am convinced that when the game was being developed the developers used google translate to understand what the english names meant

I think late at night ( or possibly mid day ) a translator used the wrong definition of what tiger means , possibly due to a haze of vodka fumes

I think he saw this definition and applied it to the Tiger tank in WoT

Paper tiger is a literal English translation of the Chinese phrase zhǐ lǎohǔ (simplified Chinese: 纸老虎; traditional Chinese: 紙老虎), meaning something that seems as threatening as a tiger, but is really harmless. This Chinese colloquialism is similar to the English phrase "its bark is worse than its bite".

The Panther is great indeed, especially now that the ammo rack bugs are fixed. The Tiger just doesn't do it's job as the T29 or IS do. People who say the Tiger (or better said the 88 series) is fine are those who think russian tanks aren't more powerfull than their counterparts.

 DarkFenix2k5, on 30 May 2011 - 12:38 PM, said:

You're 100% wrong, pal.
Cos'any battle involving tigers would mean maybe 2 tigers + 13 tier 3/4 tanks versus 15 tier 3/4/5 tanks.
In this case, we would get back to a game where skill would be more important than luck.
Means also that the matchmaking system would have to be fully revisited.
Panthers and Tigers were not UFOs. They had their weak spots, the first one being that they've never been numerous enough for the German army.
We are just tired of seeing them modeled as "paper dragons".

OK you want history..

Tiger broke down way to often.. it wasnt rare to see a tiger beeing towed back to base,; Tiger engine wasnt good for the weight of 60 tons, it broke way to often; Many early models proved to be mechanically unreliable; in this first action many broke down.  One tank was captured largely intact, which allowed the Soviets to study it and prepare a response IS was made specially to counter Tigers, even german comandeers feared it
Tiger got its name famed during early / middle days of war, when it went against poor quality tanks or infantry
The Tiger had reliability problems throughout its service life; Tiger units frequently entered combat understrength due to breakdowns. It was rare for any Tiger unit to complete a road march without losing vehicles due to breakdown. The tank also had poor radius of action (distance a combat vehicle can travel and return, in normal battle conditions, without refuelling)
IF german steel is so good as you say, why did german model Panther of T-34 ?

Dont get me wrong, i do like ingame tiger, its a perfect tank imo, but truth was far from game version

Tiger is well known, but please do check sources.. Well known doesnt mean good..

The main market for this game is in Russia, so I'm pretty sure the T-34, IS and KV play a large part in the marketing.

 cDa, on 30 May 2011 - 01:02 PM, said:

Oh yeah? Well, most Russian tanks were giant piles of (insert derogatory term here) that were made extremely inefficiently with rubbish crews. Should we translate those weaknesses into the game as well?

This is an arcade game with simulation elements. It does not take into account reliability, so I don't see why the KV's flaws should be ignored for instance, but the Tiger's should be taken into account and translated into game through lower damage, penetration, weaker armour, etc.

In my opinion, those famous tanks of World War II should be given proper respect in the game. Keep the overpowered KV, fine, but make the Tiger overpowered as well. It's only fair.

 cDa, on 30 May 2011 - 01:02 PM, said:

What soviet testing reports have to say if of non-importance
I dont trust people who make a reversed t-34 gas accerelator(great heroes ramming german tanks for the motherland hm)
Please check American reports,i'm sure they also find tiger a POS  
Shall we take off all radios from soviet vehicles then? and handicap the crew to 50%?