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WoT and us Scouts


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CoyDK #1 Posted 31 May 2011 - 08:29 PM

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I love scouting! Its without any question the hardest class of tanking.
But are we worth it? I feel utterly useless in maps where we have or only 1-2 arty's. And I almost use more money than I make on my Leo.
But why is that? Why are we not given more for our effort? In most battels I am taken out by one shot.

Thise questions have bothered me for some time. I think the answer is:
"Light tanks in WoT are not usefull, a medium tank will do much better sins It packs a punch and can take hits"

How to fix it? Well, MORE STEALTH! light tanks need to be almost invisibel! yes yes I know you AT fokes are gona go "thats out pokemon trick" but we only have like a 50mm cannon so dont worry, we dont bite we lick.

Another role for scout tanks?
Well, thats a hard one but somthing I been thinking off is enhancing tanks around it. I know its a bit weird but think of it as a "Command & Scout" role.
Exampel: All within 50 meters of the Scout will get +10% damage / rate of fire / Precision what ever the Scout picked
Yes, picked. All scout tanks get 3 possible enhancments, they cost some xp ofc. That would give us "end game" scouts somthing to bring to the fight instead of only ammusment for the IS who is gona blow out small Tank ass to heaven

What do you guys think?

LeipeJonge_NL #2 Posted 31 May 2011 - 10:03 PM

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I think scouts just need to stay ''scouts'' and don't make them ''uber-scouts with heavy guns etc''


Because scouts their job is of-course to scout for the Artillery,TD's etc.

so why buffing the scouts if they are already doing their job?

Kyphe #3 Posted 01 June 2011 - 04:07 AM

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to save time ill just quote what i said in a thread not to far bellow this one

View PostKyphe, on 30 May 2011 - 08:27 AM, said:

I have been thinking about scout rules and light tanks, and some things could do with changing.

First is that small guns should have a smaller detection radius when they are fired from cover than a large gun, this would let lights shoot without being seen and thus killed.

Second is that scouts should have a better view range, after all that is what you need to be a scout, you could have an option to have the commander unbuttoned which would put him at risk but give you max view range as long as he is not killed.

third is that light tanks should repair faster as there is less tank to fix, and suffer less of a penalty after repair considering how disadvantaged they are already.

fourth is the addition of a one use smokescreen consumable that would let the scout go invisible for a short time to get out of trouble. (giving arty smoke rounds that block LOS is also an idea)

fifth is a possibility for scouts to actually target an enemy so a cross-hairs shows up on artys map, arty just has to click the marker and they quickly auto aim at that target without the need to go into alt view.

sixth is that all scouts should come with camo like TDs, the camo should have a better visibility modifier and activate in 2 seconds not 3, and that should have the ability to turn their turret without loosing the bonus

Most important of all is that scouts should get more exp from assisted kills than other vehicles so they don't actually have to engage the enemy to earn exp, they just have to spot for snipers and arty while hidden in a bush or dodging about at full speed.

these changes if implemented would let scouts actually play as scouts and increase the chances of having some fun even in high tier matches


pouchy #4 Posted 02 June 2011 - 05:57 PM

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Something definitely needs to be done but...
As tanks are realistic models then usually the lower tier vehicles are older then the higher tier ones so you cant really expect the older vehicle to be better (say in radios and view ranges) then a newer one.
Invisibility is completely out of a question for me - its just stupid. We will end up with no arty at the beginning of the round as invisible scouts will kill it pretty much all the time
We just all need to decide what we want - balance or real-life modelling.
I would happily take balance

Kyphe #5 Posted 02 June 2011 - 07:43 PM

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view ranges? yes I do expect tanks like the Stuart which are high as hell and built to be a scout to have a great view range.

and smaller tanks should be much easier to camo

and smaller guns in real life are much less noticeable when they fire.

one thing Sherman crews did not like about the high velocity 76mm is that it had a much bigger and brighter muzzle flash than the low velocity 75mm and gave away their position from much farther away drawing return fire.

this is real life and balance.

teams would have to protect their arty if they planned on keeping them, that alone would make scouts feel like they were not some inconsequential bug waiting to be squashed in passing while the big boys play the real game.

Bodak #6 Posted 12 June 2011 - 10:27 PM

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View range for the big stuff needs nerfing. I understand that the top tier heavies can see 500m or more, which is way better than my leopard can manage even with coated optics and a good crew. There's no point scouting if the campers in the bushes can see further than you from where they are. If the heavy tank snipers too scared to leave their bushes couldn't see more than a hundred meters without help, and the only way to find the enemy was to go out and look for them, it would be far more rewarding and- dare I say it- appreciated, to run a light tank.


Slightly off-topic, I'm also suspicious about the number of times I've been hit while running angles at top speed in and out of dead ground and darting behind rocks and buildings. Having played a Marder and a Pz IV I found it pretty hard to hit a noob-rushing light-tank making a predictable dash. Whats with all the instant first-round kills from flank-on by from things I haven't seen?

Titan1C #7 Posted 14 June 2011 - 04:08 PM

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Yes I have to agree with the following point;

1, Tanks that were specifically created for Recon should have a much higher spotting reange than any other tank in game, after all that is their sole mission requirement.
2, They do already have a stealth bonus for being small, but the idea of a smoke screen to get out of trouble might be a good idea although it would have to have a detrimental effect on the scout as well, i.e they would be effectivelly blinded as well. But I like the idea it would be an interesting situational tool to use.
3, As to the gun reveal issue, this would have to be adressed across the board of course, so really this bonus would not be specifically for scouts. Everyone would start to pack small caliber guns to take advantage of this, PzIII's spring to mind. And of coure all the TD's would complain as they they would want special guns with silencers or something  :blink:
4, Quicker to repair ?, is a possibilty but then that's what tool boxes are for IMHO.

In summary I feel that they should without a doubt have a greater spotting range than anything else on the battle field, that way their use would extend to spotting for all tanks not just arty. The gun issue would bring too many complications to the game and complaining from users of big guns, remember that arty use the biggest guns and they rely on stealth as much as scouts. The stealth bonus I beleive already exists (correct me if I am wrong) for being smaller vehicles they are harder to spot.....supposedly but what about a camo bonus to crews that have camo skill......I don't know maybe it could be +10 or so percent to camo skill. But I do like the idea of smoke, but again as with the guns issues everyone will want it and why not most late war tanks had smoke projectors anyway.

Well my thoughts hope they help  :Smile_great:

Lobo #8 Posted 14 June 2011 - 04:17 PM

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View PostLeipeJonge_NL, on 31 May 2011 - 10:03 PM, said:

I think scouts just need to stay ''scouts'' and don't make them ''uber-scouts with heavy guns etc''


Because scouts their job is of-course to scout for the Artillery,TD's etc.

so why buffing the scouts if they are already doing their job?

Maybe not buffing but something must be done. They're useleess in company and in CW. Maybe some restriction on tank types in company and CW battles dependant on map.

This should force use of scouts, and ppl that love scouts will feel usefull within their clan, using their favourite tank.

With these kind of restrictions ppl have also to learn how to use scouts, more than rushing to death.

PizzaCat #9 Posted 08 August 2011 - 01:05 PM

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My pz38/38na needs a tactical nuke..

azakow #10 Posted 08 August 2011 - 03:49 PM

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I'm dedicated to scouting!  :Smile-playing:

View PostCoyDK, on 31 May 2011 - 08:29 PM, said:

I love scouting! Its without any question the hardest class of tanking.
But are we worth it? I feel utterly useless in maps where we have or only 1-2 arty's. And I almost use more money than I make on my Leo.
But why is that? Why are we not given more for our effort? In most battels I am taken out by one shot.
...
What do you do, when there is no arty around? Do you rage quit? ;)

A look at your WoT profile reveals 100+ leo games with a survivial rate of 14%.
You have earned the "Popel 3rd Class" with your Leo.

Is it hard (to deal with frustration)? Yes, it is!

Is this costly? Yes it is!

Are we worth it? Yes we are!

You will be given more for your effort, after your crew is at 100% and you are training them for cammo 1st step.
After you have reached 100% cammo, you will know most bushes and scouting paths and have a mileage of about 400-550 games.
You will also need the correct equipment and should know how it works within the framework of battle mechanics.

You may have to adjust your play style objective to scouting in stead of killing.
Use the post mortem mode to learn from other players.

My leo and I, we are also taken out by one shoot most of the time, but this is no source of frustration for us!

Always remember, (y)our largest enemy is the "Fire!" command.

Hagbardur #11 Posted 08 August 2011 - 05:06 PM

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As a Leopard fan (now trying the A-20 and M5 which are in my mind not as scout friendly) I'm all onboard, last match in my A-20 I snuck into the middle of Steppes, spotted their entire eastern wing without being seen and after counting red dots once everyone was engaged in east and west saw that the arty/base had at most 1-2 defenders.

So I then left my bush & rock in the middle and darted into their base and found their arty in the corner with a defender, our arty had clearly been watching me as it killed their arty after I fired a single round, then it was peek-a-boo time with the defender once he had taken 5 seconds to figure out what had just happened.

My reward for that game was a measly 400 xp for spotting 7 players, damaging two and taking their arty out with my scouting.

As for Bodaks concern almost 2 months ago (2 month old topic) about suspicious one-shots while darting, once you are in a heavy tank with a gun big enough to one shot a scout, you will have seen enough scouts and failed too many times to not have learnt to prepare for them and shoot where they are going, not where they are!

MKG #12 Posted 08 August 2011 - 10:10 PM

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IHMO the only one thing would be nice to make scouts both balanced and usable on higher tiers: much better detection of enemies hidden in bushes, comparing to other vehicles, which also could make them great anti-camper weapon.

Demoned #13 Posted 09 August 2011 - 11:08 PM

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it would be nice if u got xp not for just been the first to spot the enemy but for also keeping them lit up during the game,
after all 1 of the best tactics for a light tank is to wait 30secs letting artys and every1 else get into place before rushing off,
this gives u an idea of where the enemy are going to flank from, or the best area that u can spot from ie blind spots.

but bigger guns i don't think we need but maybe a bit more ramming damage would be nice, i myself have taken 2 artys out in 1 battle thanks to ramming in my Leo,
but when ur bottom of the teir list ramming is not much of an option on those artys.

Bagetti #14 Posted 04 November 2011 - 09:52 PM

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I know this is an old thread and I know i didn't read all of the posts but:

The only thing scouts (light tanks) need in higher tiered battles is more XP and credits for spotting and lighting up (while allies shoot) tanks.

Reverend_Lovejoy #15 Posted 04 November 2011 - 10:50 PM

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I agree with Spaghetti Bagetti (sorry, just couldn't resist it :D). Playing as a scout is fun and I don't see the need for additional changes, but it's not exactly my XP-cashcow.

Gumibar #16 Posted 12 November 2011 - 07:51 PM

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View PostCoyDK, on 31 May 2011 - 08:29 PM, said:



How to fix it? Well, MORE STEALTH! light tanks need to be almost invisibel! yes yes I know you AT fokes are gona go "thats out pokemon trick" but we only have like a 50mm cannon so dont worry, we dont bite we lick.

What do you guys think?

i think there is already a lot of invisible tanks as it is and some of them are pretty deadly if you ask me...scout tanks should be scouts ,not invisible superfast killing machines (like T-50-2 ...which is excelent example what happen when those scout tanks become buffed too much)




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