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Skills training vs experience


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Schurmeyer #41 Posted 27 September 2011 - 05:01 PM

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View PostWalzwerk, on 27 September 2011 - 12:47 PM, said:

Thank you very much for your answers, now I think I got it. I didn´t think about the penalty. I thought, the deviation from the real numbers would affect all crewmembers equally, and penalty would be reflected in lower xp count of the crewman, which seems not to be the case. Obviously, I didn´t take down notes with pen and paper....
Thanks again, Cheers!

P.S.: Unfortunately, I don´t have positive votes left. I hope, I´ll remember tomorrow...

Nice to see someone with manners and who appreciates input from others. +1 For being an all round nice chap.

Snib #42 Posted 27 September 2011 - 05:12 PM

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View PostWalzwerk, on 27 September 2011 - 12:47 PM, said:

Thank you very much for your answers, now I think I got it. I didn´t think about the penalty. I thought, the deviation from the real numbers would affect all crewmembers equally, and penalty would be reflected in lower xp count of the crewman, which seems not to be the case.
You are welcome. Also generally you would be correct, but I assume you have accelerate crew training turned on, which prioritizes those crew members with the least XP. Just like any bonus, the effect of accelerate crew training is not reflected in the in-game stats. But even without that option what you are seeing can happen purely through the other bonuses that are not included, namely first victory bonus XP.

It's all a bit unfortunate, having stats that are incorrect and thus mostly useless...

cmdrTrinity #43 Posted 09 October 2011 - 03:38 PM

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View PostSnib, on 27 September 2011 - 05:12 PM, said:

You are welcome. Also generally you would be correct, but I assume you have accelerate crew training turned on, which prioritizes those crew members with the least XP. Just like any bonus, the effect of accelerate crew training is not reflected in the in-game stats. But even without that option what you are seeing can happen purely through the other bonuses that are not included, namely first victory bonus XP.

It's all a bit unfortunate, having stats that are incorrect and thus mostly useless...


Nice thread :)

If I had found this a week ago I wouldn't have made my own...  ^^

http://forum.worldof...training-model/

GoldenGnu #44 Posted 09 October 2011 - 08:09 PM

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@cmdrTrinity
I like your thread as well... :Smile_honoring:

If we could just get the image in the wiki updated - all would be well...

Snib #45 Posted 09 October 2011 - 09:05 PM

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View PostGoldenGnu, on 09 October 2011 - 08:09 PM, said:

If we could just get the image in the wiki updated - all would be well...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiki

Hope that helps. :)

GoldenGnu #46 Posted 10 October 2011 - 10:10 AM

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@Snib
AFAIK you need special privileges to edit images on the official WoT wiki...

Walzwerk #47 Posted 14 October 2011 - 11:18 PM

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View PostSnib, on 27 September 2011 - 05:12 PM, said:

You are welcome. Also generally you would be correct, but I assume you have accelerate crew training turned on, which prioritizes those crew members with the least XP. Just like any bonus, the effect of accelerate crew training is not reflected in the in-game stats. But even without that option what you are seeing can happen purely through the other bonuses that are not included, namely first victory bonus XP.

It's all a bit unfortunate, having stats that are incorrect and thus mostly useless...

Hi, again!

Thanks, I didn´t know that, either. Yes, I do have accelerated crew training on, and never read anywhere it prioritizes the least-XP crewmember. Thank you for that. And all of you for the impressive work summarized in this thread. Sorry for not showing up for some time, here come my +1s.

Cheers

Snib #48 Posted 14 October 2011 - 11:40 PM

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View PostGoldenGnu, on 10 October 2011 - 10:10 AM, said:

@Snib
AFAIK you need special privileges to edit images on the official WoT wiki...
Actually you may be right, I never looked into it before but looks like they have a fixed editor team, although I'm not sure if they have done any serious work on the wiki since beta.

azakow #49 Posted 20 October 2011 - 03:32 PM

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Thanks for the effort to make these diagrams.
Looking at the X axis, I noticed that it is still per percentile, meaning that a single percentage point is displayed. Other diagramms do not have an axis description.
Moreover the total sum of XP needed to reach 100% of a secondary crew skill cannot be retrieved from the diagrams.

There was a question, whether there is a difference between tanks, hence diffenrent influence on the training.
IMO there is.
Two data samples:

VK2801:
100% primary skill, 0 battles (tank academy crew)
ACT on
100% 1st  secondary skill, no data available
100% 2nd secondary skill, 343 battles, total earned XP 309507, win rate 64%, survived 26%
100% 3rd no data available

M24 Chaffee
100% primary skill, 0 battles (tank academy crew)
ACT on
100% 1st secondary skill, 203 battles, total earned XP 170428
100% 2nd secondary skill, 561 battles, total earned XP 489057, win rate 61%, survived 30%
100% 3rd no data available

Both tanks are in the same tier and started at the same conditions.
The XP needed to complete the 2nd secondary skill varies by about 180000 earned XP.
IMO, this is alot.

GoldenGnu #50 Posted 20 October 2011 - 04:11 PM

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@azakow
How did you get your "total earned XP" stats?
The only way to be sure, is to write down the XP from the battle report after each and every battle...
Stats does not show "First victory of the day (2x XP)" and other XP specials, that adds 5x XP etc.

What you have discovered is that the stats in-game are wrong - by a lot!

If you want to understand this topic, I strongly suggest that you read the entire thread :)

Also, need to know the total sum of XP needed to reach 100% of a secondary crew skill
Try WotXP (Made by me)

pier4r #51 Posted 28 October 2011 - 07:39 PM

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View PostcmdrTrinity, on 09 October 2011 - 03:38 PM, said:

Nice thread :)

If I had found this a week ago I wouldn't have made my own...  ^^

http://forum.worldof...training-model/

Ah! Another forum-stuff skilled tanker! ;) +1

rafalek21 #52 Posted 08 December 2011 - 04:56 AM

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View Postbarabaf, on 06 June 2011 - 06:41 PM, said:

xp you need to go to the next % is : xp=50*(100^(1/100))^k
k being the % you are
For secondary skills replace the 50 in the above formulae with 100, 200 or 400

xp=50*(100^(1/100))^k - bolded part of formula is constant, its about 1.0471285481 ~~1.047(1.05 makes to big difference), so final formula can be simplified:
xp= 50*1.047^k for primary skill, 100*1.047^k for secondary skill etc.
or 50*1.0471285481^k if you like numbers.

GoldenGnu #53 Posted 08 December 2011 - 11:30 AM

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@rafalek21
Just for the fun of it I made a comparison.

Conclusion:
1.0471285481 is the same as (100^(1/100))
1.047 is not the same as (100^(1/100))

I like numbers  ;)

Primary (50-100)
Spoiler                     
Secondary Skill 1 (0-100)
Spoiler                     
Secondary Skill 2 (0-100)
Spoiler                     
Secondary Skill 3 (0-100)
Spoiler                     


Snib #54 Posted 08 December 2011 - 11:37 AM

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Since this thread came back up, let me repost something I had posted in another thread to refute a statement made by Overlord that bonus XP does not go to the crew. It also shows nicely how accelerate crew training works:

View PostHomer_J, on 25 November 2011 - 05:16 PM, said:

Kind of hard to prove the x2 does apply to skills but until someone can prove otherwise I'll say it does.  :blink:
Actually while we have the test server, here's the proof that Overlord is wrong, compare the secondary skill levels:

Fresh 100% crew, 2 battles played for 870 average XP, accelerated crew training OFF, not doubled, crew reached 31% secondary:

Spoiler                     

Fresh 100% crew, 1 battle played for 485 XP, accelerated crew training ON, DOUBLED, crew reached 48% secondary, with the first crew member (commander) reaching 61% because of accelerated crew training:

Spoiler                     

As you can see, the double XP gets attributed to the crew both directly and then again indirectly for accelerated crew training.

PS: Test server gives additional x10 bonus XP on every battle in case someone is wondering about the fast progression.

Terran_wrath #55 Posted 08 December 2011 - 11:46 AM

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Mhm, that's nice and helping me.
+1

thx m8

GoldenGnu #56 Posted 08 December 2011 - 11:55 AM

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View PostSnib, on 08 December 2011 - 11:37 AM, said:

here's the proof that Overlord is wrong

Good work!  :Smile_honoring:

Hummus #57 Posted 08 December 2011 - 05:59 PM

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Also nice to know: when you have rapid crew training on the crewmember with the lowest skill lvl will get the full bonus.
A mate of mine found this out when he got a 10k expi game, and one crew member gained 21% more then the others. (his crew was all at 99% of their main skill, and it was during the first win gets you times 5 expi days. So he got a 2k epi battle -->times 5 --> 10k expi. And 4 of the 5 crewmembers went to ~2% in their new skill, but one of them went to 23% :) )

rafalek21 #58 Posted 08 December 2011 - 06:11 PM

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View PostGoldenGnu, on 08 December 2011 - 11:30 AM, said:

@rafalek21
Just for the fun of it I made a comparison.

Conclusion:
1.0471285481 is the same as (100^(1/100))
1.047 is not the same as (100^(1/100))

I like numbers  ;)

Primary (50-100)
Spoiler                     
Secondary Skill 1 (0-100)
Spoiler                     
Secondary Skill 2 (0-100)
Spoiler                     
Secondary Skill 3 (0-100)
Spoiler                     

I know that 1.047 is not the same as (100^(1/100)), but i need only approx exp for next lvl, +/-100 exp for first secondary skill is accurate enough for me.

Btw. with 4 skills(primary and 3x secondary) 1.0471285 is accurate enough (38199 exp for 99-100% for 4th skill)

skyd #59 Posted 08 December 2011 - 10:14 PM

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View Postrafalek21, on 08 December 2011 - 04:56 AM, said:

xp=50*(100^(1/100))^k - bolded part of formula is constant, its about 1.0471285481 ~~1.047(1.05 makes to big difference), so final formula can be simplified:
xp= 50*1.047^k for primary skill, 100*1.047^k for secondary skill etc.
or 50*1.0471285481^k if you like numbers.

the better way to simplify a formula is to remember your maths;)
a^b^c simplifies to a^(b*c)

100^(1/100)^k is the same as 100^(k/100).. if you are familiar with writing i.e. 75% as 0.75 (mathematicians do it this way..) the term will simplify to

100^k  (k beeing between 0 for 0% and 1 for 100%)

wow.. that's simple.

GoldenGnu #60 Posted 12 December 2011 - 01:22 PM

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@Hummus
Great information...

@rafalek21
1.0471285 FTW

@skyd
100^(k/100)?




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