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Losing streak: how long will this farce continue?

MM unbalanced is8 losing unfair

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Njiki #1 Posted 03 August 2014 - 01:53 PM

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Dear tankers,

 

I have been playing WoT for quite a while now. Just as all of you, I know the game is rigged to some extend, but I always accepted the predetermined losing matches intended to balance out the successes of the previous matches, because until a few weeks ago, they were always followed up by more fair, balanced and interesting matches.

 

Just to make things clear, I don't consider myself one of the best players around, but I always used to have a death/kill ratio of about 1/1 and a similiar damage given/taken rate. Not excellent, but not as bad as many others. That is, I am usually not the first one to get myself killed and always aim to take the best advantage of terrain objects and play the tanks to their individual strengths. 

 

As I said, unfair losses are part of the game. In some matches you have to accept your tomato role, as in others you are happy to eliminate an underarmored, under gunned tank yourself. Fine.

 

Nobody hates to lose a fair and balanced match, or a 15-8  loss for that matter. However, since a week or so I started to experience endless losing streaks (if anyone is interested, I'll be happy to upload screenshots), for example: last week the following pattern occured: 7 losses, 1 win, 5 losses, 2 wins, 8 losses, 1 win, 4 losses, 2 wins. Similar battle ourcomes occured on Thursday and Friday with an overall winning rate of 27% (on Friday) over 23 matches. Typically, these matches take place as follows: battle starts, I drive to a strategic point, see all the imbecils disregarding the mini map, heavies camping behind arty, scouts who refuse to scout, and in the blink of an eye I see a score of 6-0 for the enemy team on the score board and soon find myself surrounded by 3+ enemy tanks because all my fellow tanks on the same flank just vapourised into thin air. Over 75 % of the losses suffered end in 2 - 4 minutes. Precisely aimed close range shots are miraculously missed and I even experienced my IS-8 top gun shell bounce of the back of a T29. I had multiple 0 damage 'critical hits' on obvious weak spots, even 2 times on arty vehicles. "est popadanie", "das muss weh tun" but no damage. Friendlies get ammo racked, while not the maximum dmg is dealt when the enemy is penetrated. The few wins that I got as some kind of compensation often felt just as phony as the losses suffered, many of them where just as unbalanced monster victories (15-2, 15-4 etc).

 

What makes the losing streaks so utterly frustrating, is the WG policy that all players (excellent or horribly bad) should have win-loss rates of around 50%. If you are in "danger" of exceeding this line, you will be placed into prefixed automaticly losing teams until you are back at: what win rate? at what point will it stop, what can you do to break this pattern? Players who deliver outright sh*t performances will be placed in "less challenging" battles, just not to get demotivated by their own undewhelming play. Players who actually want to play strategicly get pusnished by getting sloughtered as compensation for structural ill performers' losses. This is demotivating, and a pity, because the game itself is awesome.

 

If it is necessary to have these prefixed monster loss matches, it is alright, but it would be nice not to distribute them in such a long sequence. It takes all the pleasure from the game, as SKILL plays no role in such on beforehand lost battles. I hope this problem gets dealt with in future patches. Until then, does anybody know how break the sequence of endless monster losses? Or maybe the T32 and IS-8, my current tanks, have some kind of automatic low win rate?

 

 

 

  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 



_Antipathy #2 Posted 03 August 2014 - 02:01 PM

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Yet some go over 60% WR.

Njiki #3 Posted 03 August 2014 - 02:18 PM

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View Post_Antipathy, on 03 August 2014 - 03:01 PM, said:

Yet some go over 60% WR.

 

Sure, some do, but that is no prove that this is not a structural issue. The +/- 50% is the official game model, and that is wrong in my opinion.



Yag0 #4 Posted 03 August 2014 - 02:25 PM

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View PostNjiki, on 03 August 2014 - 01:53 PM, said:


What makes the losing streaks so utterly frustrating, is the WG policy that all players (excellent or horribly bad) should have win-loss rates of around 50%. If you are in "danger" of exceeding this line, you will be placed into prefixed automaticly losing teams until you are back at: what win rate? at what point will it stop, what can you do to break this pattern? Players who deliver outright sh*t performances will be placed in "less challenging" battles, just not to get demotivated by their own undewhelming play. Players who actually want to play strategicly get pusnished by getting sloughtered as compensation for structural ill performers' losses. This is demotivating, and a pity, because the game itself is awesome.

 

If it is necessary to have these prefixed monster loss matches, it is alright, but it would be nice not to distribute them in such a long sequence. It takes all the pleasure from the game, as SKILL plays no role in such on beforehand lost battles. I hope this problem gets dealt with in future patches. Until then, does anybody know how break the sequence of endless monster losses? Or maybe the T32 and IS-8, my current tanks, have some kind of automatic low win rate?

 

 

 

 

You are just talking nonsense here.

There is no secret algorithm, it is statistics and skill/effort.



Stein____Adler #5 Posted 03 August 2014 - 02:30 PM

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If the game is rigged how come I can get good winrates even when playing solo and you cant ?

Do I get better RNG than you ? I am pretty sure thats not the case.

 

Look at it this way:

 

For most players winning/losing a match is like flipping a coin - 50/50

now go flip a coin 10 times, theres a mediocre chance you will have 8-2 or 7-3 or whatever

now go flip it 4200 times and you get to around 50%

 

coin rigged ? dont think so.



Njiki #6 Posted 03 August 2014 - 03:06 PM

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View PostYag0, on 03 August 2014 - 03:25 PM, said:

 

You are just talking nonsense here.

There is no secret algorithm, it is statistics and skill/effort.

 

Defenitely do not agree on this one. What role do skill and effort play if your team mates structurally die like flies in the first moments of the game? 

Even  a very skilled player can do nothing if he is suddenly surrounded  by 4 enemy tanks because the others get themselves killed straight away, especially when facing 10 second reloading times.  Unfortunately, the likelihood of being teamed up with such idiots increases when you are to win over 50%.

 

View PostVeediR, on 03 August 2014 - 03:30 PM, said:

If the game is rigged how come I can get good winrates even when playing solo and you cant ?

Do I get better RNG than you ? I am pretty sure thats not the case.

 

Look at it this way:

 

For most players winning/losing a match is like flipping a coin - 50/50

now go flip a coin 10 times, theres a mediocre chance you will have 8-2 or 7-3 or whatever

now go flip it 4200 times and you get to around 50%

 

coin rigged ? dont think so.

 

VeediR, thank you for confirming what I was trying to state in my initial post. When you flip the coin 4200 times, as I did, I get a win rate of 50%. When I am about to win more, I start getting curious losing streaks. Probably over 95% of the players have stats of around 50%, which proves my point. After a better than average series players are placed "more challenging matches" as WG calls it. In practice, these are matches that deliver the necessary outcome to stay around the 50% win rate in the long run.

 

I am happy you get good win rates and enjoy the game as it is.

 



Stein____Adler #7 Posted 03 August 2014 - 03:08 PM

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View PostNjiki, on 03 August 2014 - 03:06 PM, said:

VeediR, thank you for confirming what I was trying to state in my initial post. When you flip the coin 4200 times, as I did, I get a win rate of 50%. When I am about to win more, I start getting curious losing streaks. Probably over 95% of the players have stats of around 50%, which proves my point. After a better than average series players are placed "more challenging matches" as WG calls it. In practice, these are matches that deliver the necessary outcome to stay around the 50% win rate in the long run.

 

I am happy you get good win rates and enjoy the game as it is.

 

 

Give me the source of the statement "After a better than average series players are placed "more challenging matches"" please.

 



Marlekin #8 Posted 03 August 2014 - 03:14 PM

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View PostNjiki, on 03 August 2014 - 02:53 PM, said:

 

Just to make things clear, I don't consider myself one of the best players around,

 

 

We all play the same game, bro.

 

On the same server. We get the teams drawn out of the same player pool, with the same tomatoes and crappy teams. But just because of that, everyone is equal. We all share the same problem. This is why I never believe players who will tell me that they cant have good games because of bad teams.

 

This game is simply about how you as one player can affect the games you're in. Despite the teams and tomatoes, there are still plenty players who will do allright even in a defeat. They will affect their matches and sometimes even carry their team to a win. Its not impossble, plenty players do it already. 

 

This is what you must do, too.



Valvalecia #9 Posted 03 August 2014 - 03:16 PM

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Focus on your personal performance rather than your teams, as it's much easier to affect. Then, when you improve your wr will raise with you.

Njiki #10 Posted 03 August 2014 - 03:22 PM

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View PostBreitenfeld1631, on 03 August 2014 - 04:16 PM, said:

Focus on your personal performance rather than your teams, as it's much easier to affect. Then, when you improve your wr will raise with you.

 

Absolutely! That is what I always do!



Yag0 #11 Posted 03 August 2014 - 04:14 PM

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View PostNjiki, on 03 August 2014 - 03:06 PM, said:

 

Defenitely do not agree on this one. What role do skill and effort play if your team mates structurally die like flies in the first moments of the game? 

Even  a very skilled player can do nothing if he is suddenly surrounded  by 4 enemy tanks because the others get themselves killed straight away, especially when facing 10 second reloading times.  Unfortunately, the likelihood of being teamed up with such idiots increases when you are to win over 50%.

 

 

As said "show me the proof".

 

For that matter, explain to me the business sense of including such algorithms to game software?

As it seems to punish better players thus disincentivize the base, anti promoting your own game?

 

Got any more theories, dull Sunday could do with the levity :)



Negated #12 Posted 24 October 2014 - 02:28 AM

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View PostNjiki, on 03 August 2014 - 02:53 PM, said:

Dear tankers,

 

I have been playing WoT for quite a while now. Just as all of you, I know the game is rigged to some extend, but I always accepted the predetermined losing matches intended to balance out the successes of the previous matches, because until a few weeks ago, they were always followed up by more fair, balanced and interesting matches.

 

Just to make things clear, I don't consider myself one of the best players around, but I always used to have a death/kill ratio of about 1/1 and a similiar damage given/taken rate. Not excellent, but not as bad as many others. That is, I am usually not the first one to get myself killed and always aim to take the best advantage of terrain objects and play the tanks to their individual strengths. 

 

As I said, unfair losses are part of the game. In some matches you have to accept your tomato role, as in others you are happy to eliminate an underarmored, under gunned tank yourself. Fine.

 

Nobody hates to lose a fair and balanced match, or a 15-8  loss for that matter. However, since a week or so I started to experience endless losing streaks (if anyone is interested, I'll be happy to upload screenshots), for example: last week the following pattern occured: 7 losses, 1 win, 5 losses, 2 wins, 8 losses, 1 win, 4 losses, 2 wins. Similar battle ourcomes occured on Thursday and Friday with an overall winning rate of 27% (on Friday) over 23 matches. Typically, these matches take place as follows: battle starts, I drive to a strategic point, see all the imbecils disregarding the mini map, heavies camping behind arty, scouts who refuse to scout, and in the blink of an eye I see a score of 6-0 for the enemy team on the score board and soon find myself surrounded by 3+ enemy tanks because all my fellow tanks on the same flank just vapourised into thin air. Over 75 % of the losses suffered end in 2 - 4 minutes. Precisely aimed close range shots are miraculously missed and I even experienced my IS-8 top gun shell bounce of the back of a T29. I had multiple 0 damage 'critical hits' on obvious weak spots, even 2 times on arty vehicles. "est popadanie", "das muss weh tun" but no damage. Friendlies get ammo racked, while not the maximum dmg is dealt when the enemy is penetrated. The few wins that I got as some kind of compensation often felt just as phony as the losses suffered, many of them where just as unbalanced monster victories (15-2, 15-4 etc).

 

What makes the losing streaks so utterly frustrating, is the WG policy that all players (excellent or horribly bad) should have win-loss rates of around 50%. If you are in "danger" of exceeding this line, you will be placed into prefixed automaticly losing teams until you are back at: what win rate? at what point will it stop, what can you do to break this pattern? Players who deliver outright sh*t performances will be placed in "less challenging" battles, just not to get demotivated by their own undewhelming play. Players who actually want to play strategicly get pusnished by getting sloughtered as compensation for structural ill performers' losses. This is demotivating, and a pity, because the game itself is awesome.

 

If it is necessary to have these prefixed monster loss matches, it is alright, but it would be nice not to distribute them in such a long sequence. It takes all the pleasure from the game, as SKILL plays no role in such on beforehand lost battles. I hope this problem gets dealt with in future patches. Until then, does anybody know how break the sequence of endless monster losses? Or maybe the T32 and IS-8, my current tanks, have some kind of automatic low win rate?

 

 

 

  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You are so very right.... don not listen to all em fanbois and their "Tinfoilhat" statements many of em are below average IQ and living in total bliss RL anyway!

The game is very rigged indeed and that is how it is nothing to do about it and it is properly the right way to manage a "free for all " game.

One good advice would be to "dont care about it" and to not care about WR everyone knows that people that dont platoon nor go to t2 and pad will not likely have a good WR (here i am thinking about if one later on would like to join a good clan and would think that WR would come into play. ).

 

WG have made a compensation for the xp issue when loosing. Many missions is about getting xp 1.5 if u r in the top "lets say 3" so this should settle that issue (WG aint as unfair as they are greedy)

 

Just go out and do your best - deal a lot of damage and rate ur games by that ONLY. Wins doesnt matter anything if you did low damage.

 

Its all about dat Damage!!!

 

 

my last session all tier 9

Wins/Battles:         6 (22)    (27.3%)

But my wn8 was 2600 and avg. dam 2300.

 

regards

 

 



1ncompetenc3 #13 Posted 24 October 2014 - 02:33 AM

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View PostTMAce, on 24 October 2014 - 03:28 AM, said:

 

You are so very right.... don not listen to all em fanbois and their "Tinfoilhat" statements many of em are below average IQ and living in total bliss RL anyway!

The game is very rigged indeed and that is how it is nothing to do about it and it is properly the right way to manage a "free for all " game.

One good advice would be to "dont care about it" and to not care about WR everyone knows that people that dont platoon nor go to t2 and pad will not likely have a good WR (here i am thinking about if one later on would like to join a good clan and would think that WR would come into play. ).

 

WG have made a compensation for the xp issue when loosing. Many missions is about getting xp 1.5 if u r in the top "lets say 3" so this should settle that issue (WG aint as unfair as they are greedy)

 

Just go out and do your best - deal a lot of damage and rate ur games by that ONLY. Wins doesnt matter anything if you did low damage.

 

Its all about dat Damage!!!

 

 

my last session all tier 9

Wins/Battles:         6 (22)    (27.3%)

But my wn8 was 2600 and avg. dam 2300.

 

regards

 

 

 

LMAO

 

Do tell us in which way this game is "very rigged". And make it original; there's plenty of potatoes who claim the game is rigged but it usually boils down to "I am stronk playerer becus I say so and WG hates me". That inane crap gets boring.

By the way, high average damage and low win rate is a pretty good indication that you're doing damage to the wrong targets at the wrong time.



Xino9922 #14 Posted 24 October 2014 - 09:03 AM

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Wat? :ohmy:

 

My stats for recent days:

  Most recent    
Performance Rating: 1,570 (+0.7)        
Efficiency Rating: 997 (+0.2)        
WN7 Rating: 1,434 (+1.0)        
WN8 Rating : 1,858 (+1.7)        
Battles: 22        
Win Rate: 59.09% (+0.02%)        
Average damage: 1,123 (+1.0)        
Average experience: 815 (+0.7)  
Played some battles in tier 9-10, but mostly in tier 5-7...

Edited by Xino9922, 24 October 2014 - 09:03 AM.


daddlar #15 Posted 24 October 2014 - 09:53 AM

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Related: http://forum.worldoftanks.eu/index.php?/topic/422810-god-awful-win-streaks/

 


Edited by daddlar, 24 October 2014 - 09:56 AM.


nikkosx #16 Posted 26 October 2014 - 04:54 PM

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Dear WOT prioducers and developers,

 

I experenced in last 6 months a strange feeling. You are acting like a unskilled arbiter or a corrupt one. I fond myself mostly in uncapable teams with no chance to win for long time.

Putting in the same game a team with mostly poor players and other side mostly silled ones you do nort encourage nobody to play anymore. My stats decresed constantly from 50.4% down to 49.98 as it is now. 

For sure I'm not the best player ever but I don't think it is right to have all the time bad MM. I'm thinking to consider not to play this game I loved in the past, anymore, and this is result of your bad way to design match making without taking into consideration rates for players or balance between tanks. All this is killing all pleasure to play.

Moreover you tolerate boot players and those are using codes ingame. 

I think you want to reconsider redesingning this game so the pleasure to be real and chances equlibrate. I don't want to think you are doing this against some nations with no simpathy in actual politics. I don't want to extend this ideea, but please do not act anymore in a soviet way of doing things.

And I don't want to hear some answers in SerB manner, with no respect for your customers cause then I will permanently delete this game and I will convice also my friends to do like me.

 

Thank you!



AShinobi84 #17 Posted 22 December 2014 - 07:16 AM

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Hello, I experience such streaks too, but I managed to forget them, mainly by playing fun tanks like

KV-2 or FV304 because even if I lose I have hilarious moments. Therefore I stop dramatysing and I see that there are also winning streaks that are present in this game.



ursixx #18 Posted 22 December 2014 - 08:52 AM

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average and proud 

K_A #19 Posted 22 December 2014 - 12:38 PM

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Maybe the fact that you do a lot worse in your IS-8 and T32 (1000 damage per battle average for both) than you're supposed to do in order to sustain a 50% win rate is somehow affecting your win rate? In a heavy tank if you do less damage than your own hit points, you're not going to get 50% win rate over a large sample of games.

 

Also, "After a better than average series players are placed "more challenging matches" as WG calls it."

 

What people think this means is that if you win a lot, you start getting doofus teams full of cauliflowers and 4-year-olds. THAT IS NOT TRUE! MM is rigged to balance BATTLE TIERS on your tanks, not team performance or win chance (win chance isn't even calculated by WG ever, anywhere). Balancing BATTLE TIERS means that if your 20 last games in one given tank with regular +/-2MM have been 10 top tier games, 6 middle tier games and 4 bottom tier games, MM will start to put you in bottom tier games to achieve a 33%/33%/33% ratio between top, mid, and bottom tier games.

 

Being top tier you usually have better games and you can influence the battles more even when your team is bad, so you might've had some nice winning streaks during those 20 games, but being thrown in the game as a bottom tier tank your chances of influencing the battle are smaller and you might start to feel like you can't do anything about your team being bad.



Yag0 #20 Posted 22 December 2014 - 12:39 PM

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View Postursixx, on 22 December 2014 - 07:52 AM, said:

average and proud 

 

Good 1st post.

Find your way to The Bar thread and join in :)







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