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T-54 needs hull nerfing.


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Search_Warrant #41 Posted 04 August 2014 - 12:44 AM

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Its the fact that medium has everything i have and MORE! thats what im getting at. he doesent suffer in any aspect. armor? speed? mobility? gun? he suffers from nothing!. while my scout gets nerfed hp/armor/decent but no T8 alpha gun that other T8 mediums get too. i get camo on the move. so what? coridoor maps and everyone has 400 viewrange (some more than scouts) i give up allot for my crappy minor posatives. T-54? gives up nothing.

Edited by Search_Warrant, 04 August 2014 - 12:45 AM.


War_of_Genius #42 Posted 04 August 2014 - 12:59 AM

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View PostSearch_Warrant, on 04 August 2014 - 12:44 AM, said:

Its the fact that medium has everything i have and MORE! thats what im getting at. he doesent suffer in any aspect. armor? speed? mobility? gun? he suffers from nothing!. while my scout gets nerfed hp/armor/decent but no T8 alpha gun that other T8 mediums get too. i get camo on the move. so what? coridoor maps and everyone has 400 viewrange (some more than scouts) i give up allot for my crappy minor posatives. T-54? gives up nothing.

 

Don't drive LTs then. Why don't you use T-34-2 instead?

I can fully understand your dissapointment regarding LTs, but not yur argument T-54 is OP. Its turret was heavily nerfed it provides not high pen and little gun depression. It is not that easy to play afterall.

 

My av. Tier IX MT dmg:

 

T54E1: 2577 (classic autoloader OPness)

Patton M46: 2421 (All ouy need is gundepression and dpm)

Centurion 7/1: 2137 (I actually liked that one)

E-50//PanhterII 2126 (my very first Tier 9 MT loved it. Half the stats are made in Panther II when it was still Tier IX)

WZ 120: 2052 (I hated it with all my heart)

T-54: 2004 (OKish inaccurate gun and little gundepression)

Leopard ProstatA: 1807 (Again, I hated it, no gun depression, no armor, no dpm, just nothing)

((Lorraine: 1783 irrelevant, I drove it when it was still Tier 8.))

 

As u can tell by my dmg values, I am not the best MT driver out there and I am sure there are players who are able to wreak havoc in each of them.

 

Also: The average player on vbaddict does not seem to handle T-54 all that well:

 

-> T-54 is not OP.

--> LTs need a lot of loving by WG. 9.3 is said to bring general LT buff, so let's wait and hope.


Edited by General_Jack_D_Ripper, 04 August 2014 - 01:03 AM.


L0ddy #43 Posted 04 August 2014 - 01:36 AM

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View PostDarkblood96, on 03 August 2014 - 09:53 PM, said:

Make a russian tank practically immune to the lower tier tanks and noone bats an eye.
Make a german tank's turret bouncy and everyone loses their minds

 

^^^ spot on

 

every time i see one of these invulnerable Romulan Deathstar hovercraft (t54,wz120,t61,t62a,430,141,121) heading in my way, I reload gold... but they usually teleport in behind me:teethhappy:



Sturmtiger_304 #44 Posted 04 August 2014 - 02:05 AM

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View Posthedi2222, on 03 August 2014 - 11:33 PM, said:

I quite find the centurion 7/1 to be able to defeat the T-54 easily .

 

Goldspam hulldown T-54 will win 9/10 times against a cent 7/1 unless you somehow magically take out his gun with every shot.



cherry2blost #45 Posted 04 August 2014 - 06:11 AM

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View PostSturmtiger_304, on 04 August 2014 - 01:05 AM, said:

 

Goldspam hulldown T-54 will win 9/10 times against a cent 7/1 unless you somehow magically take out his gun with every shot.

 

Centurion 7 in a one on one with T54 has no chance.... I have 1400 games in cent 7.... never managed to win a one on one with T54... APCR bounces frontally.... regularly due to ability to angle due to agility... gold ammo penetrates any part of the Cent 7.... and believe me every shot that hits cent 7 in random from t54 is gold....so I change to gold round... due to rounded turret and extreme angles....be lucky to get 80HP. ..oh and he can fire 3 of those auto penetrating gold rounds for every 2 of mine....so t54 OP? No not really....


Edited by cherry2blost, 04 August 2014 - 06:12 AM.


divinity_123 #46 Posted 04 August 2014 - 06:33 AM

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View Postcherry2blost, on 04 August 2014 - 06:11 AM, said:

Centurion 7 in a one on one with T54 has no chance.... I have 1400 games in cent 7.... never managed to win a one on one with T54... APCR bounces frontally.... regularly due to ability to angle due to agility... gold ammo penetrates any part of the Cent 7.... and believe me every shot that hits cent 7 in random from t54 is gold....so I change to gold round... due to rounded turret and extreme angles....be lucky to get 80HP. ..oh and he can fire 3 of those auto penetrating gold rounds for every 2 of mine....so t54 OP? No not really....

Centurion 7 is not a close combat tank. Why would you do what you are not good at?



cherry2blost #47 Posted 04 August 2014 - 07:07 AM

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View Postdivinity_123, on 04 August 2014 - 05:33 AM, said:

Centurion 7 is not a close combat tank. Why would you do what you are not good at?

 

So you are hull down in cent 7 doing what you are supposed to do... T54 stand off just showing rounded turret... auto bounce for cent 7... spamming sniper gold rounds that auto pen every part of cent 7 turret... sorry but you forgot to tell the t54 that the Cent was stand off only...


Edited by cherry2blost, 04 August 2014 - 07:08 AM.


divinity_123 #48 Posted 04 August 2014 - 07:26 AM

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View Postcherry2blost, on 04 August 2014 - 07:07 AM, said:

So you are hull down in cent 7 doing what you are supposed to do... T54 stand off just showing rounded turret... auto bounce for cent 7... spamming sniper gold rounds that auto pen every part of cent 7 turret... sorry but you forgot to tell the t54 that the Cent was stand off only...

The flat part of the turret is only less than 230 mm. You can penetrate with your silver.

In the worst case, shoot gold into his turret and penetrate.

Furthermore, in a hulldown situation, you can always move around and turn your turret randomly to reduce the chance of getting penetrated. If you stay still, then blame yourself.



Sisarot #49 Posted 04 August 2014 - 08:00 AM

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Forum being it's typical stupid self.

 

T-54 is by far the strongest T9 in the game. If it would be moved as it is to T10 then it would still be a good tank. 

 

But no, forum is full with silly hipsters who upvote any stupid "KV-1S is balanced because of X reason" thread, but downvote any thread that makes a valid point. 



cherry2blost #50 Posted 04 August 2014 - 08:25 AM

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View Postdivinity_123, on 04 August 2014 - 06:26 AM, said:

The flat part of the turret is only less than 230 mm. You can penetrate with your silver.

In the worst case, shoot gold into his turret and penetrate.

Furthermore, in a hulldown situation, you can always move around and turn your turret randomly to reduce the chance of getting penetrated. If you stay still, then blame yourself.

 

 

Lol how little you know the Centurion 7.... gold is HESH good luck penetrating ANY part of T54 with that stuff...moving turret....ok drive it against T54 and see how well that works...E100..LFP Centurion penetrates 8/10...only way to penetrate a T54 is from side or rear... good luck having T54 show either of those parts to a Centurion 7...

 

But as usual forums are full of USSR defenders... why else is clan wars full of Russian top tiers... or why in T6 companies KV1s is king... tier 8 IS3 is king... T10 T54 or T62a is king?

 

We all know the Russian bias.... so why deny the truth... OP made a valid point about the T54. Regardless of the fact he shouldn't be face to face with a medium in a light... but T9 heavies and mediums SHOULD be able to deal with T54 in some way but are unable to do so... due in no small part to troll armour and ridiculous 330 penetration HEAT. ...


Edited by cherry2blost, 04 August 2014 - 08:29 AM.


tajj7 #51 Posted 04 August 2014 - 08:25 AM

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View Postwims80, on 03 August 2014 - 10:14 PM, said:

The T-54 has 201mm pen. It's easily the worst pen of all the tier 9 tanks in the game. The other tier 9 tanks have between 10% and 30% more penetration

 

Yeh but low pen is it's ONLY weakness and it then gets a 350mm penetration cHEAT round to completely negate that one weakness. 

 

That is about a 60% increase in penetration, no tank in the game has such benefits from a premium consumable and most have far more weaknesses than the T-54.

 

The cHEAT rounds need removing on the T-54, give it an APCR round with around 240 pen and the tank instantly becomes a lot more balanced. 

 

View PostSturmtiger_304, on 04 August 2014 - 02:05 AM, said:

 

Goldspam hulldown T-54 will win 9/10 times against a cent 7/1 unless you somehow magically take out his gun with every shot.

 

A Cent 7/1 can beat a T-54 quite easily in a close brawl if the T-54 isn't spamming heat. 

 

I've found the APCR goes straight through UFP of the T-54 and the Cent 7/1s UFP is about 240mm effective and the Turret front can also bounce a T-54 quite easily (especially as the T-54 is shooting up being lower than the Cent 7/1).  

 

If he's hull down it's not as easy but you can still pen the turret as since the HD update the T-54 turret is a lot weaker, plus the Cent will have a lot of places where it can fire and the T-54 can't.

 

Only thing that needs changing on the T-54 is the cHEAT round, remove it from the tank give it a much lower pen APCR or APDS premium round and the tank is weaker. 

 

 



cherry2blost #52 Posted 04 August 2014 - 08:32 AM

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HEAT rounds are what makes this thing unbalanced... remove the HEAT and the tank is just a fast, troll armoured medium... which is IMO a decent balancing act....

Firstcasuality #53 Posted 04 August 2014 - 08:40 AM

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In direct brawl t-54 would win 9/10 against centurion 7/1 simply because of dpm.

In hulldown brawl it's tricky. Centurion turret is quite tough even with cHEAT amo i rarely pen mantlet. Basicly only way is to pen right above mantlet and i get lot of bounce there. While centurion with it's acurate gun can shoot me right on front turret part near gun witch is pretty flat and around 230mm armor sure i will bounce occasionaly but otherwise it's lot of RNG dependent.

Overall i consider t-54 good tank but it's not OP as people suggest. Good frontal armor is just myth and any tier 9 and 10 have no problems pening it.

 

 



Alteisen #54 Posted 04 August 2014 - 08:53 AM

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View PostSearch_Warrant, on 04 August 2014 - 12:19 AM, said:

I told you. getting to the side of a T-54 is impossible. he has scout mobility and agility! dont u think I TRIED get to his side armor? pretty sure a T8 should go threw the front of a T9 medium easy. especially with 189pen! T9 mediums fair enough i might bounce.  but that one tank is immune to scouts trying to damage him due to its jack-of-everything. its like giving my WZ-132 200 effective frontal and i just angle slightly to bounce high caliber guns. its exactly like that. its not fair. while ur at it give my WZ 200+ turret. then restamp it to T-54-132 and you got the picture.

So why are you engaging a T-54 frontally anyway? If you can't pen his hull, shoot at the cupola. Failing that, do a Forrest Gump and RUN.



divinity_123 #55 Posted 04 August 2014 - 08:53 AM

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View Postcherry2blost, on 04 August 2014 - 08:25 AM, said:

Lol how little you know the Centurion 7.... gold is HESH good luck penetrating ANY part of T54 with that stuff...moving turret....ok drive it against T54 and see how well that works...E100..LFP Centurion penetrates 8/10...only way to penetrate a T54 is from side or rear... good luck having T54 show either of those parts to a Centurion 7...

 

But as usual forums are full of USSR defenders... why else is clan wars full of Russian top tiers... or why in T6 companies KV1s is king... tier 8 IS3 is king... T10 T54 or T62a is king?

 

We all know the Russian bias.... so why deny the truth... OP made a valid point about the T54. Regardless of the fact he shouldn't be face to face with a medium in a light... but T9 heavies and mediums SHOULD be able to deal with T54 in some way but are unable to do so... due in no small part to troll armour and ridiculous 330 penetration HEAT. ...

Gold shell is HE, that means perma pen (deals damage).

If you know t54 so well, why you cannot outplay it. I just don't know why.

It is just funny to blame everything to russian bias. Maybe you can look at my stats and explain to me why I can do equally well in my other nations?



hgjwz #56 Posted 04 August 2014 - 08:57 AM

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T-54 is strong maybe even too strong but its defo not strong because it has some extra hull armor compared to most mediums :teethhappy:

Oh ya and from game design point i always thought meds were supposed to be the ultimate counter for light tanks ?


Edited by hgjwz, 04 August 2014 - 09:00 AM.


tajj7 #57 Posted 04 August 2014 - 08:58 AM

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View Postcherry2blost, on 04 August 2014 - 08:32 AM, said:

HEAT rounds are what makes this thing unbalanced... remove the HEAT and the tank is just a fast, troll armoured medium... which is IMO a decent balancing act....

 

Yep this, remove the HEAT you balance the tank.

 

 

View PostFirstcasuality, on 04 August 2014 - 08:40 AM, said:

In direct brawl t-54 would win 9/10 against centurion 7/1 simply because of dpm.

In hulldown brawl it's tricky. Centurion turret is quite tough even with cHEAT amo i rarely pen mantlet. Basicly only way is to pen right above mantlet and i get lot of bounce there. While centurion with it's acurate gun can shoot me right on front turret part near gun witch is pretty flat and around 230mm armor sure i will bounce occasionaly but otherwise it's lot of RNG dependent.

Overall i consider t-54 good tank but it's not OP as people suggest. Good frontal armor is just myth and any tier 9 and 10 have no problems pening it.

 

 

 

DPM is only good if you pen, that's why I said if he isn't using cHEAT the Centurion can win, the Cent will pen pretty much every shot if it can see all of the T-54 because it can go through any part of the hull (and a lot of the turret), whereas the Cents turret and UFP can reliably bounce standard T-54 shells, so if you keep your front towards the T-54 you can bounce a good proportion of his shots nullifying his DPM. . 

 

I've been rushed several times recently in my Cent 7/1 by T-54s and beaten them quite comfortably in close quarters engagements, the T-54 is fast and agile but enough to stop a Cent 7/1 keeping it's front towards the target as it's pretty agile itself.

 

However they have each time used standard shells (presumably because they think the Cent is a soft target) and with 210mm of pen and shooting from a lower angle they bounced about half their shots. I even beat one T-54 that was on full health whilst I only had 750, he bounced like 5 shots on me

 

Does help that my Cent 7/1 has rammer + vents + BIA so my reload is 9.9 seconds giving me a DPM around 2350. 

 



XxLegionsxX #58 Posted 04 August 2014 - 08:59 AM

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t-54 should be balanced whit great armor, great speed, bad gun ( kinda) but HEAT shell made in hell by stalin himself have the power to penetrate every enemy of the great URSS

imo HEAT 330 pen and stupid 700 engine HP is what makes this tank op

EVEN THE FRICKING TIER 10'S HAVE ONLY 580 HP ENGINES ( the t-54 copy)

it's ok if a tank has bad speed but good armor..or good gun but bad mobility...you get the point you shoud lose something....

but t-54 has only the gun bad...and Premium rounds are in the game...yeah GG WG

wz-120 is more balanced whit the 100 mm gun... 215 pen and gold whit "only" 265! ( 2,9 sec aiming time sucks i know )

ok the t-54 IRL fired HEAT but the wz-120 never had the 122mm so STFU and change HEAT or nerf it

all the unicoms (that i heard) say that the t-54 is OP

they should change the name to OP-54

 

 

i have to say that the nerf to the turret armor was nice ( and needed)

but next time don't engage a t-54 from the front....whit a scout



chaosddd #59 Posted 04 August 2014 - 09:02 AM

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OP, light tanks are very challenging to play and certainly not made to take on the best brawling T9 medium in the game. Hell, even a T7 medium will probably kill you in a dog fight, how would you expect to overcome a T-54?! Scout slaughtering is what most medium tanks do really well. 

 

T-54 is a great tank but it has its weaknesses. Standard pen is very low and HEAT shells while OP in some situation (e.g. vs E100) are very bad in others (e.g. vs a hull-down Cent 7/1 (good luck penning the spaced mantlet)). Armour is only reliable against <210 pen or so and most enemies you encounter have way more. Turret was recently nerfed and is very unreliable now.  

 

I have played also the Cent 7/1 and even before the UFP buff, it was as good as the T-54, although in a completely different way. Both are brilliant tanks, but for different reasons. 



dennez #60 Posted 04 August 2014 - 09:16 AM

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Classic.. Tier 8 scout taking on a tier 9 medium frontally and whines on the forum.. :facepalm: Can't we just go back to arty whine threads?

If you're in a WZ-132 and run into a T-54 there's one good option.. GTFO.

BTW T-54 armor really isn't that OP. Turret got nerfed to crap and the hull armor won't save you in the 90% tier X matches it gets.

 






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