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Pz.38(t) NA


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Frenzier #1 Posted 09 June 2011 - 11:57 PM

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So when i heard about the Pz.38(t) NA i was curious to wich gun it would have since the Pz.35(t) and Pz.38(t) had guns only used by them, so i was disapointed when i found out that it would use the  5cm KwK 39 L/60, so i did some searching and i found this prototype 3.7cm L/70 but i have no idea of the penetration characteristics, my idea was adding to this tank a sniper gun, comparable to the soviet 45mm VT-42.

I also found this one 4.2 cm Pak 41, it says: Armour penetration: 87 mm (3.425 in) at 500 m (550 yards). Seems to be a lot of penetration, this could be like a smaller version of Gun 7,5 cm KwK 41 L/58 konisch wich is unique to the VK3601(H).  I dont know if there is a kwk counterpart, also i dont know what is the true difference between PaK and KwK and why basicaly Pak versions are better, so maybe someone could explain to me...

ollivier #2 Posted 10 June 2011 - 12:53 AM

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PaK: PanzerabwehrKanone, which is a rough translation toAnti Tank Gun
KwK: KampfwagenKanone, which is a a rough translation to Fighting Vehicle Cannon
FlaK: FlugabwehrKanone, which is a rough translation to Anti-Plane Gun

VGA #3 Posted 10 June 2011 - 12:55 AM

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What does the L stand for ? Length ? In what measurement ?

Frenzier #4 Posted 10 June 2011 - 12:57 AM

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View Postollivier, on 10 June 2011 - 12:53 AM, said:

PaK: PanzerabwehrKanone, which is a rough translation toAnti Tank Gun
KwK: KampfwagenKanone, which is a a rough translation to Fighting Vehicle Cannon
FlaK: FlugabwehrKanone, which is a rough translation to Anti-Plane Gun

Thats doesnt answer my question, i already knew that, what i mean is what makes a Pak not able to be fitted into a tank turret.

Frenzier #5 Posted 10 June 2011 - 01:04 AM

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View PostVGA, on 10 June 2011 - 12:55 AM, said:

What does the L stand for ? Length ? In what measurement ?

(Yes its lenght in calibers, 1 caliber is 25.4mm, so L/70 would be 1778mm) <--- This is wrong sorry XD

L/70 means the lenght of the barrel is 70 times the caliber of the gun in this case 37mm

Larunnon #6 Posted 10 June 2011 - 01:08 AM

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View PostFrenzier, on 09 June 2011 - 11:57 PM, said:

I dont know if there is a kwk counterpart, also i dont know what is the true difference between PaK and KwK and why basicaly Pak versions are better, so maybe someone could explain to me...

As the one bevore said. PaK is the "Panzerabwehrkanone"(Anti-Tank-Gun) and KwK is "Kampfwagenkanone" (somethin for Tanks itself)

PaKs have been basicaly moving guns, nothing more. Something like this:
Spoiler                     

With the invention of new and bigger Tanks the PaKs had to get bigger, so the calibre got bigger and the Gun itself too. The increase of weight brought the need about to build PaKs that could move for itself and the German TDs were Born. The versions that are mounted on normal Tanks are not the guns in original, they had to be modified to fit into the superstrukture or Turret of the spezific tank. This Guns ar the KwK version. I cant tell you why they have better or worse stats in WoT. In Reality they should have better reloading time and better accuracy just for the fact that the length of the tube was long eneaught for the accu and something else fpr the reloading time (rammer or something)  :mellow:

hope i helped you :)


View PostFrenzier, on 10 June 2011 - 01:04 AM, said:

Yes its lenght in calibers, 1 caliber is 25.4mm, so L/70 would be 1778mm

Sry, but that is wrong.

Quote

German Wikipedia http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaliber (If you want to search the english article)
Bei Rohrwaffen wie Kanonen von Kampfpanzern oder Artilleriegeschützen beschreibt die Kaliberlänge die Länge des Rohres im Verhältnis zum Kaliber. Eine Kanone mit 55 Kaliberlängen und einem Kaliber von 120 mm ist dementsprechend 55 × 120 mm = 6600 mm lang.

Tranlation:  (Calibre)L/(ratio) 88mm/L100 would be: 88mm Diameter of the Shell, 100x88mm = 8800mm = 8.8 Meters Barrel length.

Frenzier #7 Posted 10 June 2011 - 01:44 AM

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View PostLarunnon, on 10 June 2011 - 01:08 AM, said:

As the one bevore said. PaK is the "Panzerabwehrkanone"(Anti-Tank-Gun) and KwK is "Kampfwagenkanone" (somethin for Tanks itself)

PaKs have been basicaly moving guns, nothing more. Something like this:
Spoiler                     

With the invention of new and bigger Tanks the PaKs had to get bigger, so the calibre got bigger and the Gun itself too. The increase of weight brought the need about to build PaKs that could move for itself and the German TDs were Born. The versions that are mounted on normal Tanks are not the guns in original, they had to be modified to fit into the superstrukture or Turret of the spezific tank. This Guns ar the KwK version. I cant tell you why they have better or worse stats in WoT. In Reality they should have better reloading time and better accuracy just for the fact that the length of the tube was long eneaught for the accu and something else fpr the reloading time (rammer or something)  :mellow:

hope i helped you :)




Sry, but that is wrong.



Tranlation:  (Calibre)L/(ratio) 88mm/L100 would be: 88mm Diameter of the Shell, 100x88mm = 8800mm = 8.8 Meters Barrel length.

Yes you are damn right i always felt my idea of it had something wrong, altough i read it somewhere and maybe i got it all wrong, thank for speaking the truth :D

Dr_Schmerz #8 Posted 10 June 2011 - 02:10 AM

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The biggest problem of the Pz38 nA is still that hes completely not comparable as TIER VI tank. He should be TIER IV like the Leopard - that would be more fair.

Frenzier #9 Posted 10 June 2011 - 02:25 AM

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View PostDr_Schmerz, on 10 June 2011 - 02:10 AM, said:

The biggest problem of the Pz38 nA is still that hes completely not comparable as TIER VI tank. He should be TIER IV like the Leopard - that would be more fair.

But he is Tier IV like the Leopard. He is really almost like a Leopard you must have got something wrong.

Its exactly making it stand out from leopard what im trying to do by giving it a different gun option.

Dr_Schmerz #10 Posted 10 June 2011 - 01:48 PM

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ups sry ,it was late yesterday - i never mind of that tank and just overviewed it shortly.

director #11 Posted 11 June 2011 - 08:55 AM

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View PostDr_Schmerz, on 10 June 2011 - 02:10 AM, said:

The biggest problem of the Pz38 nA is still that hes completely not comparable as TIER VI tank. He should be TIER IV like the Leopard - that would be more fair.
you probably wanted to say this :

Posted Image

no comment :)

Frenzier #12 Posted 11 June 2011 - 02:25 PM

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View Postdirector, on 11 June 2011 - 08:55 AM, said:

you probably wanted to say this :

Posted Image

no comment :)

I guess you dont like the fact tier IV scouts enter in battles upto tier X, i dont see anything wrong with it, infact a scout in a Tier X that does what he is suposed to do can be the deciding factor between a victory and a defeat.

director #13 Posted 11 June 2011 - 06:19 PM

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pz38 doesnt have speed as lepopard to scout. He have same visibility range as those high tiers tanks. Most drivers are neewbies which don't have camo and bino and those high tiers have them. So there is not much point to scout with him. I do good scout job with him only in prohorovka, malinovka and stepes. Other maps are not good for PZ38NA with high tiers oponents but muchmaker puts him in many matches like this one. In hes tier battles he can do hes job good but it is still one of worst tier 4 tanks.

Good for me that i  finished my grind with him.

theking497 #14 Posted 14 June 2011 - 11:45 PM

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the thing i find is that when the pz38NA gets in a match in his own tier it´s 5cm gun rapes most stuff if the driver knows what he is doing same goes for the leopard but i would want to see an 5cm autocanon 3cm autocanon 42mm pak41 spotting 87mm penetration at 500 meters enough to ruin most heavys side or engines. or the 5cm auto "fires 3 round burst in to heavys back good luck with that engine fire xD"

Waggel #15 Posted 15 June 2011 - 12:10 AM

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Yes! More powerful auto-cannons, I agree. That 42mm sounds nice too.

I don't see it happening though. Those guns would probably be to OP in low tier battles.

50PoundSledge #16 Posted 29 June 2011 - 02:35 PM

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Hi!

I bought a 38nA a few days ago and I'm posting here because this tank needs improvement. It's the biggest pile of crap I've seen on the battlefield. Before that I played the 35t (tier 2), which is a very strong tank, and the 38t (tier 3), which is pretty cool and a nice allrounder.

Now to the 38nA, the problem is, it has LOWER armor than the 38t, which is stupid already, but even worse is that about 2 of 3 hits, you chain is destroyed and you can't do anything but to wait for the repair and due to NO ARMOR on this tank the second hit means death. I probably played about 20 (random) games with this tank and I don't think I got a single kill with it. Usually I play against tier 5-8, which makes it impossible to do anything useful because after a single hit, you're dead and even scouting is not possible because those higher tier tanks having a higher range of sight.

The only improvements to the 38t are the speed, which is NO improvement because the acceleration is worse and therefore you never reach your max speed, your even less agile and the gun, which is an improvement, but due to the fact, that your getting killed by single shots I never was able to do more than 60% damage to any other tank (in my tier, gun doesn't penetrate higher tier armor).

I had really fun in this game until now, but I really consider stop playing this game. Again, not a single kill in this tank, this is just plain stupid and I don't really know, why such a weak tank is put into battles with tier 5-8.

I'm also playing a tier 4 artillery (Grille), so I know how important scouting is, but with this tank it's just impossible. I got often killed with a single shot by medium tanks AND i couldn't even see them.

I hope the developers read in the forum (I'm new here and don't know how the system works around here) but I really can't take it anymore with this tank. If this doesn't change, I'm out of here and probably everyone who uses 38nA.

Frenzier #17 Posted 29 June 2011 - 07:54 PM

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View Post50PoundSledge, on 29 June 2011 - 02:35 PM, said:

Hi!

I bought a 38nA a few days ago and I'm posting here because this tank needs improvement. It's the biggest pile of crap I've seen on the battlefield. Before that I played the 35t (tier 2), which is a very strong tank, and the 38t (tier 3), which is pretty cool and a nice allrounder.

Now to the 38nA, the problem is, it has LOWER armor than the 38t, which is stupid already, but even worse is that about 2 of 3 hits, you chain is destroyed and you can't do anything but to wait for the repair and due to NO ARMOR on this tank the second hit means death. I probably played about 20 (random) games with this tank and I don't think I got a single kill with it. Usually I play against tier 5-8, which makes it impossible to do anything useful because after a single hit, you're dead and even scouting is not possible because those higher tier tanks having a higher range of sight.

The only improvements to the 38t are the speed, which is NO improvement because the acceleration is worse and therefore you never reach your max speed, your even less agile and the gun, which is an improvement, but due to the fact, that your getting killed by single shots I never was able to do more than 60% damage to any other tank (in my tier, gun doesn't penetrate higher tier armor).

I had really fun in this game until now, but I really consider stop playing this game. Again, not a single kill in this tank, this is just plain stupid and I don't really know, why such a weak tank is put into battles with tier 5-8.

I'm also playing a tier 4 artillery (Grille), so I know how important scouting is, but with this tank it's just impossible. I got often killed with a single shot by medium tanks AND i couldn't even see them.

I hope the developers read in the forum (I'm new here and don't know how the system works around here) but I really can't take it anymore with this tank. If this doesn't change, I'm out of here and probably everyone who uses 38nA.


You seem to be very pissed off... well i played with 38na and with leopard, it is very comparable to leopard but is only better than leopard in viewrange as far i can tell i didnt get the crews to 100% so i cant tell how good mobility really is, well when you say 38na has less armour than 38t you are wrong.... it has more... a lot more... only in the rear hull it has 5mm less... wich doesnt really make any difference... you obviously havent understood how to play with a scout tank.... it is a spotter in high tier battles, not a damage dealer so you shouldnt fire your gun unless you know for sure you can penetrate, wich are the rear hulls of a few tanks and most artys... now if you land in a high tier battle... you should learn where in each map are strategic spotting positions, you will use speed to get there fast and spot enemy before he gets too close, you should use the binocular telescope to get the assured 500 meters spotting range... wich is the maximum. Just standing still behind a bush and doing nothing else can win a battle.... but you gotta learn how to do it.... and its not in 20 battles with that tank that you will learn. Also there are other strategys, for example 1 that i use to usualy great sucess is that you need to wait and look carefully at map, you know there are only 15 enemys tanks... so you count them on map as they are spotted... you learn their poitions and sooner or later usualy you will realise where there is a breach in enemys frontline trough wich you can rush and get the enemy artys... also many but many times victory can be decided by that tank that decideds to go back to defend flag and shoot the enemy that is capping... you shoot its tracks and you deal damage, thats more than enough to break cap and possibly win the game... also you can just stick with other bigger tanks and harass enemys tanks when they are too busy with your bigger mates, just shooting their weak spots like gun, comander´s cupula, tracks, driver´s window,etc is irritating and possibly far more effective than you might think to get that enemy killed.  Now you threatening to ragequit this game... is just pathetic... first the tank has no REAL problems... it could be better, but its not that bad.... you probably would be raging about other tier IV scouts if you had played them... they all go up to tier X battles and they pretty mutch all share the same "problems"... you obviously still need to learn a LOT in this game, because you are gettng this game in a very wrong way.... now all i sayd is to help you... but im expecting you to take me the wrong way... do as you please... i have sayd all this from personal experience, i may not be very kind in my words but neitheir where you in my point of view when you sayd all these "blasphemys" XD about Pz.38(t) NA :D

Also this post is about the idea of giving Pz.38(t) NA a new gun and nothing else...

50PoundSledge #18 Posted 30 June 2011 - 12:03 AM

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You're right, only the armor on the back side is worse then the tier 3 model, still I don't understand why this is the case.

Aditionally I don't really understand how you think that I could afford binoculars with a tier 4 tank. I don't have the money for that but the tier 5-8 tanks, that I have to fight, can.

Still the tank is very slow on turning and I just played one more game with it today, guess what, I got hit by another light tank and my chain broke...great tank!

I already know the tactics you talk about and but they only work in very few matches. I won one round with this tank by escaping some slow heavies and taking their flag, but you can't do that in any game. Sometimes the enemy team doesn't have a tier IV light tank and so I can't hide because my team needs support. Actually having an 38nA in the team is like a handicap.

CaptainMastiff #19 Posted 03 July 2011 - 11:32 PM

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View PostFrenzier, on 11 June 2011 - 02:25 PM, said:

I guess you dont like the fact tier IV scouts enter in battles upto tier X, i dont see anything wrong with it, infact a scout in a Tier X that does what he is suposed to do can be the deciding factor between a victory and a defeat.

What's wrong with it is the reward for a successful game is minuscule to what that tier X is going to get in XP and Credits. If it is such game breaking style of play then the scout should be handsomely rewarded too. I managed to hit 678XP with my Luchs before and that was after clocking 4 kills and scouting out 9 of the team and surviving to the end. Even then for the work that I did that was pretty piss poor to what the KV at the top would of had for his 3 kills.

I can AFK in a KV/Tiger and get more XP than artillery that actively participates.

I love my Luchs but I dread to think how bad the Leo is going to be when the game decides that pulling me into a tier X game will be all fun, considering there are many complaints on the forum already about how close you are to a 0% profit when using the Leo, it appears to be the tank of choice when you really have nothing else to drive.

BraveSteelDragon #20 Posted 01 September 2011 - 08:36 AM

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Folks

I am a (insane) 38nA user (700+ matches), because i STICKED to it.

A tank is NEVER good form when you buy it, so you can only wait to get the hand at it and to get the crew at a better % so you have increased performance...

By far, i sticked to my 38nA, i had FUN with it, i improved my overall manouvering skills (infact now if i'm lucky i can tackle-tickle a maus and void the fire of a KV wih derp gun), and this helped my overall use of the superior tanks (VK3001(P) as one).

So, all this "38nA is a <insert adjective here>" blah blah, is useless, as the tank itself is good (even better than leopard, imo), and it's all up to the driver making the 38nA suck or not.

Quote

Hi!

I bought a 38nA a few days ago and I'm posting here because this tank needs improvement. It's the biggest pile of crap I've seen on the battlefield. Before that I played the 35t (tier 2), which is a very strong tank, and the 38t (tier 3), which is pretty cool and a nice allrounder.

Now to the 38nA, the problem is, it has LOWER armor than the 38t, which is stupid already, but even worse is that about 2 of 3 hits, you chain is destroyed and you can't do anything but to wait for the repair and due to NO ARMOR on this tank the second hit means death. I probably played about 20 (random) games with this tank and I don't think I got a single kill with it. Usually I play against tier 5-8, which makes it impossible to do anything useful because after a single hit, you're dead and even scouting is not possible because those higher tier tanks having a higher range of sight.

The only improvements to the 38t are the speed, which is NO improvement because the acceleration is worse and therefore you never reach your max speed, your even less agile and the gun, which is an improvement, but due to the fact, that your getting killed by single shots I never was able to do more than 60% damage to any other tank (in my tier, gun doesn't penetrate higher tier armor).

I had really fun in this game until now, but I really consider stop playing this game. Again, not a single kill in this tank, this is just plain stupid and I don't really know, why such a weak tank is put into battles with tier 5-8.

I'm also playing a tier 4 artillery (Grille), so I know how important scouting is, but with this tank it's just impossible. I got often killed with a single shot by medium tanks AND i couldn't even see them.

I hope the developers read in the forum (I'm new here and don't know how the system works around here) but I really can't take it anymore with this tank. If this doesn't change, I'm out of here and probably everyone who uses 38nA.

Hell, man, no offense, but what the hell you do with that tank? Did you RUSH with it?
38nA is not rusher, that's why it doesn't have a good acceleration (and the acceleratiuon gets better as the driver % improves, mind you).
Think of the convention that "Light Tank = 100% Rusher Scout", because 38nA can fit much better in other roles.....
For instance, when you're in big matches, just drive behind the big boys (behind, not INFRONT), wait for the enemy lgihter tanks to die, and then go kill the arty (if any), otherwise try to go to cap.... this, is called TACTICAL thinking.



Quote

Actually having an 38nA in the team is like a handicap.

Not realy, when i'm in the right conditions, i can turn the tide of the match.
I once even made a Grille Team-Kil a JPanther xD (and we won because the grille was the last one standing and he rage quitted).
Also, while the 5cm gun can't pen theass of a heavy, that doesn't mean that you can't at all (in a few words: AIM  BETTER AND SMARTER, and use HE sometimes :P )

At the end 38nA is a good tank, you just need to stick to it, and SUFFER (like i did xD)