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What does Artillery add to the game?

Arty Artillery Balance OP

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_Antipathy #21 Posted 10 August 2014 - 12:57 PM

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View PostHawky802, on 10 August 2014 - 04:16 AM, said:

People always say to avoid artillery by moving around but sometimes this just isn't possible. For example i was playing my Dicker Max on Karelia assault, not wanted to camp base ridge (we were attacking) I moved to the north of the map I put a good shot into a KV-3, I knew i was spotted so I start doing unpredictable movements but poor old Fat Max just cant move quickly, I was then obliterated by a G.W Panther. I then proceeded to rage like an imbecile like you described.

 

So there you were aware (sadly mostly people wouldn't think about it) and did the right thing. That's good ^^ 



Darth_Clicker #22 Posted 10 August 2014 - 01:06 PM

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View PostLeadbucket, on 10 August 2014 - 01:44 PM, said:

I'm just an average player and have never claimed otherwise.

I'm not the one who's claiming that arty changes the game for the better....that's you......with your 47% WR. Why is your WR not better....because you are not effective enough in arty....so your damage is a moot point if it doesn't win battles.

Although lots of damage is nice it, is not the only way to win, knowing when to deal it and who to deal it too is more important.

My last 1000 battles say 61%......yours 46%.......and your 4.71 average, considering you are playing arty at mostly higher levels, wouldn't even add up to the HP of an IS-3.


So, according to your logic,SPGs can carry a battle...a support vehicle is actually the main force in the battle.  You need to get a clue.  Oh, and I never claimed that you were anything better than an average player.  I am not sure where your first statement is coming from.

 

Is the only reason that you are attacking my stats is because you can not stretch your brain enough to come up with anything meaningful to contribute?

 

Arty does not change the game for the better because it is part of the game.  The game does not exist without arty.  Live with it or play a different game.  Solitaire and Tetris do not have SPGs.



Kolmiopaavo #23 Posted 10 August 2014 - 01:09 PM

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View PostBkc1965, on 10 August 2014 - 02:06 PM, said:

Arty does not change the game for the better because it is part of the game.  The game does not exist without arty.  Live with it or play a different game.  Solitaire and Tetris do not have SPGs.

 

Artyless matches are not uncommon, and they play absolutely fine.



Darth_Clicker #24 Posted 10 August 2014 - 01:12 PM

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View PostLeadbucket, on 10 August 2014 - 01:44 PM, said:

I'm just an average player and have never claimed otherwise.

I'm not the one who's claiming that arty changes the game for the better....that's you......with your 47% WR. Why is your WR not better....because you are not effective enough in arty....so your damage is a moot point if it doesn't win battles.

Although lots of damage is nice it, is not the only way to win, knowing when to deal it and who to deal it too is more important.

My last 1000 battles say 61%......yours 46%.......and your 4.71 average, considering you are playing arty at mostly higher levels, wouldn't even add up to the HP of an IS-3.


And one other thing.  The stats of yours that I compare with mine still say that I am a better player than you.  Your stats in those two categories are clearly inferior to mine....lol.



Eila_Juutilainen #25 Posted 10 August 2014 - 01:46 PM

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I'm only gonna say one thing here: matches without arty are just as campy as matches with them, and please don't claim that it's not true because we all know that people will camp as much as they can. It's a viable tactic if done right, after all. Baiting the opponent into fighting on your terms is just about the smartest thing ever.

 

My first Ace Tanker match in STA-1 was last week and it was a horrible 11-minutes campfest. I was in the exact same spot for about 90% of the game and so were most my opponents, because attempting to move generally resulted in getting shot for both parties. While I did end up with a pretty amazing score (shooting at tier X = profit), it was the most boring match I had all month. At least getting steamrolled has some excitement.

 

TL;DR - Arty neither promotes nor deters camping, because tomatoes are gonna camp no matter what you do. They're selfish and cowardly.


Edited by Eila_Juutilainen, 10 August 2014 - 01:47 PM.


spitting_bob #26 Posted 10 August 2014 - 02:03 PM

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Several games during the last days where the game went to a stalemate because no one could advance without getting shot at by tanks, no arty was in play. Arty would have solved the issue as you can't camp on known locations.

I think arty in many cases deters camping.

 

 



Kolmiopaavo #27 Posted 10 August 2014 - 02:13 PM

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View PostEila_Juutilainen, on 10 August 2014 - 02:46 PM, said:

 

 

Baddies camp regardless of the anything, thats true. However its about the amount of good active players who are trying to win the game. Lets say normally in tier 10 games it would be 4-6, but artillery cuts this amount to 1-2.

 

I didnt claim that artyless matches dont have camping, i just stated that they work absolutey fine, as he indirectly claimed that without arty the game wouldnt work, which is completly untrue.

 

 

 


Edited by Kolmiopaavo, 10 August 2014 - 02:13 PM.


_Antipathy #28 Posted 10 August 2014 - 02:17 PM

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There's also the problem that people only see Arty from the point of view of the victim: Arty killed me, nerf it!

But they hardly ever see what Arty does in battle, like killing spotted enemies, eliminating campers, etc.



BravelyRanAway #29 Posted 10 August 2014 - 02:51 PM

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View PostBkc1965, on 10 August 2014 - 01:06 PM, said:


So, according to your logic,SPGs can carry a battle...a support vehicle is actually the main force in the battle.  You need to get a clue. 

Actually...you prove that it can't.

View PostBkc1965, on 10 August 2014 - 01:12 PM, said:


And one other thing.  The stats of yours that I compare with mine still say that I am a better player than you.  Your stats in those two categories are clearly inferior to mine....lol.

I'm sure everyone is lining up to achieve a 47% WR like yours.

Players with high damage and low WR in heavies are usually players that camp a lot but deal damage after the rest of their team is dead.

But with regard to arty, just one hit can get your own HP in damage ...in battle the rest of you team is at the front exchanging shots which will bring down their damage dealt v's damage recieved while you sit at the back, not in the line of fire. But while you're playing mostly at T9 and T10 your average would not be enough to kill a T9, it means you are not doing enough to justify driving arty at that level.

Keep your head in the sand.

 

 



WolfOfCampscapel #30 Posted 10 August 2014 - 02:55 PM

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View PostCarycyn, on 10 August 2014 - 09:47 AM, said:

these forum threads really shouldnt be used to discuss with arty players.

(as in answerung to their arguments)

So these threads should only be used by the arty whiners. Bzzt. Wrong.



Eila_Juutilainen #31 Posted 10 August 2014 - 03:27 PM

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View PostKolmiopaavo, on 10 August 2014 - 03:13 PM, said:

 

Baddies camp regardless of the anything, thats true. However its about the amount of good active players who are trying to win the game. Lets say normally in tier 10 games it would be 4-6, but artillery cuts this amount to 1-2.

 

I didnt claim that artyless matches dont have camping, i just stated that they work absolutey fine, as he indirectly claimed that without arty the game wouldnt work, which is completly untrue.

 

 

I wasn't replying to you personally, but making a general statement. While I don't collect statistics on it, over the last year I have experienced no notable difference between matches without arty, or matches with a few. I also don't think it reduces the amount of good players that actively try to win, but the only evidence I have is anecdotal.



Darth_Clicker #32 Posted 10 August 2014 - 04:02 PM

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View PostKolmiopaavo, on 10 August 2014 - 03:13 PM, said:

 

Baddies camp regardless of the anything, thats true. However its about the amount of good active players who are trying to win the game. Lets say normally in tier 10 games it would be 4-6, but artillery cuts this amount to 1-2.

 

I didnt claim that artyless matches dont have camping, i just stated that they work absolutey fine, as he indirectly claimed that without arty the game wouldnt work, which is completly untrue.

 

 

 


I indirectly claimed that the game would not work without arty?  Indirect is an understatement.  It is so indirect that it is not even my words nor is it at all what I inferred.  Those are your words Master Mole, not mine. Please do not try to drag me into your Mole-bong induced hallucinations again.

 

The only battles I have been in without arties are the tier 1 and 2 battles before I got my first arty.  The game works just fine with arties in it.  It happens every day.

 

If you want to play the game with no arties in the battle, you already have that option.  There are no spgs at tier 1.  With the close mindedness and immature attitudes towards who should be allowed to play the game and how the game should be played I think playing at tier 1 would be a stress-free endeavor for some of you.  There is your solution!  Arty free WOT exists!!!   Enjoy.



Kolmiopaavo #33 Posted 10 August 2014 - 08:55 PM

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View PostBkc1965, on 10 August 2014 - 05:02 PM, said:

The only battles I have been in without arties are the tier 1 and 2 battles before I got my first arty.  The game works just fine with arties in it.  It happens every day.

 

Yes, it works surprisingly well with it. However it doesent mean the product cant be improved even further.

 

View PostBkc1965, on 10 August 2014 - 05:02 PM, said:

If you want to play the game with no arties in the battle, you already have that option.  There are no spgs at tier 1.  With the close mindedness and immature attitudes towards who should be allowed to play the game and how the game should be played I think playing at tier 1 would be a stress-free endeavor for some of you.  There is your solution!  Arty free WOT exists!!!   Enjoy.

 

Oh the irony...



Darth_Clicker #34 Posted 11 August 2014 - 05:23 AM

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View PostKolmiopaavo, on 10 August 2014 - 09:55 PM, said:

Oh the irony...

How ironic...



MajorLanger #35 Posted 11 August 2014 - 05:37 AM

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View PostBkc1965, on 10 August 2014 - 06:19 AM, said:

What does Artillery add to the game?  It adds enjoyment for me.  It is much more enjoyable for me compared to playing a tank.  Why?  Because I like the challenge that arty offers beyond what tanks offer.  Arty is different and special- Special Purpose Gun...

 

Dude, it's SELF PROPELLED GUN, not Special Purpose gun. Self propelled means it's on a motor-driven chassis instead of being dragged by a lorry. And besides a good tank commander also has his eyes on the minimap, especially those with fast supportive tanks, who might be able to go help there in time. And often enough it proved more sufficient than another piece of artillery.



Darth_Clicker #36 Posted 11 August 2014 - 05:47 AM

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View PostKolmiopaavo, on 10 August 2014 - 09:55 PM, said:

 

Yes, it works surprisingly well with it. However it doesent mean the product cant be improved even further.

 

Improvement is very often an opinion.  Some of the anti arty crowd think that removing SPGs would be an improvement.  I am sure others think that less armor protection and hit points on heavies would be an improvement.  Less speed on some tanks.  Less damage per minute on some tds (which is higher at tier x than a tier x arty).  How about the obj. 140 and it's capability of delivering 3817hp of damage per minute?  The most damage per minute in Arty world is 3062 with the BC 155 58!  The obj 140 is clearly over powered.  Now it is clear why you have the most battles in it.

 

So why only focus on one "improvement"?  Or, do you think the game is perfect except for SPGs?

 

 



Search_Warrant #37 Posted 11 August 2014 - 06:58 AM

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It adds fear of moving from a solid object.

Seedling #38 Posted 11 August 2014 - 09:41 AM

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View PostKolmiopaavo, on 10 August 2014 - 12:19 AM, said:

 

I decided to check how hard it was to play a tier 10 arty, as you claim. My contribution surely added a lot to the enjoyment of the other players, and i for sure enjoyed it as well. Not forgetting about the fact that i had to use all the skills i have under my belt to do what i did in that game.

 

Firing nothing but gold and you can't even break 5k damage on a T92 (for Gore's Medal and High Caliber)...

Don't get me wrong, it's a damn nice result as far as arties go, don't see that often. But it's not like the 10-15k damage you can pull off in mediums, heavies and TDs on a good day.

For a bane of tanks, you did surprising little damage (barely 2 shots worth). Compare it to that T30 who did the most damage but didn't even get a High Caliber... I guess you confirmed that arties are in no way overpowered... just freaking annoying, like that ridgecamping TD beyond visual range.



mirage77 #39 Posted 11 August 2014 - 09:51 AM

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View PostLeadbucket, on 10 August 2014 - 01:14 AM, said:

There are very few good arty players in WoT. Most are really bad and having to rely on those to actually hit anything would for the most part be a fruitless endeavor. 

I never insult arty players in game....I accept the fact that WG have placed them in the game and play accordingly.

But I do believe that there would be better game play without arty. Which was kinda proven when they first nerfed arty, as in the first few weeks after the arty nerf game play was more fluid when the number of arty players had dropped off substantially.


The more fluid games lasted just for 2 or 3 months. After that the camping was, and is much worst. Not only that, but i think the level of players is also much worst now. It's very common now to see almost all players in a team go to 1 side and camp there and lose the game very fast. Before update 8.6 that almost never happned.

As you can guess i'm a big arty fan :biggrin:.



Raid_ #40 Posted 11 August 2014 - 09:55 AM

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Many moons have passed since the great nerf, when the artillery roamed the battlefield and killed the white man in the open.

It was way to strong. Agree. But for now, it only features lucky players. Missing 5 shots, fully aimed at a bloody static and very stronk IS8? Really, he/she did not move even a bit?

Is this to keep deep-red-IS8 playing, or just to piss me off ?

We shoud have kept artillery with a small nerf to accuracy or a medium nerf to damage, and limit them to a max of 2 per game or side, should have done the work... instead of getting a whole branch of tanks to almost complete uselessness.

 

-pro: insta-kill Waffenträgers, making them rage hard in chat, ability to eat, drink, get coffee from the bakery store next road, read news on ipad, watch a movie while playing and talking with others on TS

-con: frustration, frustration, frustration, unreliability for the tanks we try to support, did I mention the horrible repair cost and low XP get, even with one of those rare 3k damage situations?!

 

 

And yes I am just "above average player" ad of WN8.But to all those "YOU GOT NO SKILL YOLO NO SKILL L2P TROLLOLOL" guys appearing here, tell me, what to improve on my artillery skills, when the grenade just keeps refusing to hit a static target?

 

Edit: 4 games. 620 XP. Lost all 4 barely. Team got completely screwed, and I could not do a single thing, because I just did not hit anything.

Edit2: 5th game. 3 shots. 0 damage. Fully aimed. 670 xp.

 

 

Todays stats. 

First game: Centurion 7, 1k damage, loss

Second: Centurion 7: 4k damage, won

Rest: Artillery GWE100

 

Edit3: Battle 7: I fired 7 shots. 2 direct hits, 5 splash. 3200 Damage...

 

So I managed to get 6 games, with almost no hit. and game 7, hitting with every shot. This is just Random crap.

Final solution to this: Artillery sold. 3400000 Credits to spend on a tank, useful to my team.


Edited by Raidmm, 11 August 2014 - 10:27 AM.





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