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new polish MSBS assault rifles

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ShotaroPL #1 Posted 31 August 2014 - 03:57 PM

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Surefire 60 Round Mag:

0:29 o kurw... :wink:

its weapon for Project TYTAN - Polish Future Soldier program

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvuErYcKurM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zCFvBxtkJg#t=64

Type: Assault Rifle
Place of origin: Poland
 
Manufacturer: Łucznik Arms Factory
Specifications
Weight: 3.7 kg (8.2 lb) normal, 3.4 kg (7.5 lb) bullpup
Length: 980 mm (39 in) normal, 720 mm (28 in) bullpup, folding stock extended

Cartridge: 5.56×45mm NATO
Action: Gas-operated short stroke, rotating bolt
Rate of fire: 700–750 rounds/min
Feed system:

30 or 60 round Magpul PMAG


Edited by ShotaroPL, 31 August 2014 - 06:09 PM.


ShotaroPL #2 Posted 31 August 2014 - 04:51 PM

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Tytan at a turning point

Brigade General Janusz Bronowicz, Chief of the Armoured and Mechanized Troops Department, Polish Land Forces Command talks to SoldierMod about plans for Poland’s Tytan and Mini-Tytan

 

Poland’s soldier modernisation programme (SMP) has a long history. The first future soldier concept was created in the early 1990s at the Military University of Technology (WAT) in Warsaw. However, it was only in 2006 that the Polish Ministry of Defence (MON) formulated an Outline Staff Target (OST) and started a programme called the Personal Battle System (Indywidualny System Walki) or ISW Tytan. The name derives from Ancient Greek mythology, where Titans were a race of giant deities.

In 2006, four Task Groups were also created. Their areas of responsibility were: integrated equipment, armament and sights, electronics, opto-electronics and software and personal protection (ballistic, mechanical, environmental and NBC). The Task Groups’ work, combined with the experience from Poland’s deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan from 2004, resulted in the creation of a pre-feasibility study (PS) as well as the establishment of staff requirements (SR). The aim of the ISW Tytan soldier modernisation programme was to create from scratch, a system of systems, with all new soldier weapons and equipment – an electronically-packed uniform and helmet, C4I system, computer and power source integrated within the vest.

This objective was very ambitious and long-term, however in 2009 the Polish Land Forces Command officials realised that the OST from 2006 had become outdated and needed to be updated. The dissolution of the Task Groups in 2008 following the creation of the PS and SR was subsequently found to have been unwise because of a lack of cohesion, compatibility and personal continuity in the next phases of research and development (R&D). Moreover, Army planners were now, also considering an evolution in the organisation of mechanised platoons, designed specifically for expeditionary units. Instead of the platoon consisting of three wheeled or tracked infantry fighting vehicles (IFV) based sections, they wanted to introduce a platoon of four, smaller IFV-based sections, the last section being responsible for fire support and equipped with a 40mm grenade machine gun and 60mm mortar. This new order of battle will undergo a six-month testing phase, beginning in the second half of the 2009. Last, but certainty not least, the Polish Army needs the new future soldier system as quickly as possible. In response, the concept of a minimal requirement ISW Tytan – so called Mini Tytan – was created. According to Brigade General Janusz Bronowicz, Chief of the Armoured and Mechanized Troops Department, Polish Land Forces Command (DWL), the Mini Tytan will be a basic version of the Polish future soldier system, consisting mainly of currently issued weapons such as the 5.56 mm wz. 96 Beryl assault rifle and wz. 96 Mini Beryl carbine, 7.62mm UKM-2000 machine gun and other equipment including the legacy ballistic/tactical vest, EOTech HWS.552 holographic sight, MU-3 night vision goggles and new battledress uniform which is field tested now. These in turn may also become the backbone of the future ISW Tytan. By combining these current elements of armaments and equipment, with GPS and a personal radio issued every soldier, General Bronowicz believes that the minimal requirement Tytan, designed for expeditionary forces, can be achieved straightforwardly.

General Bronowicz said that the Mini Tytan (named version A) may be available in 2009 and could be issued to the sixth rotation of the Polish Military Contingent in Afghanistan (PKW Afghanistan) and – which is equally important – can be easily modified and upgraded, with new modules easily added either to replace older systems or in time, extend system capability.

There are several research and developed projects in Poland which can be easily combined with ISW Tytan, for example a new rifle, the system MSBS-556, 5.56 mm assault rifle which consists of a common receiver in either a ‘Classic’ and bullpup design, new 8.6 mm (.338 for Lapua Magnum) sniper rifle, the Alex-338 as well as a semi-automatic sniper rifle in the same calibre or hybrid thermo-night vision goggles known as PCO Fusion.

The standard variant of the Tytan (version B) will be designed for mechanised soldiers, and the most advanced variant (version C) will be designed for reconnaissance and special units as well as boarding teams.

General Bronowicz added there are still many questions to discuss and evolve regarding Tytan, for example decisions on whether Tytan will be issued at company or platoon level. He added that Mini Tytan or Tytan itself will be a system developed primarily for expeditionary, not nationally based units, and that there were no situations during Polish deployments to Iraq or Afghanistan where an entire company was in action.

General Bronowicz said that the Polish Land Forces Command fully understand the importance of the soldier modernisation programme to the Polish Army, and added that ISW Tytan is one of the Land Forces’ priority programmes in 2009, with funds having already being allocated.

A definitive decision regarding the spiral system development of ISW Tytan and Mini Tytan has not yet been made, although Polish Land Forces Command has received an unofficial green light from the Polish Ministry of Defence.

Industry perspectives

When the PS and RS for the ISW Tytan were completed, the Warsaw based company CNPEP Radwar, part of the Bumar Group signed a co-operation agreement with France’s Sagem who produce the FELIN SMP. Radwar wanted to interest the Polish Army in a system called Ulan-21 or Lancer-21, developed on the basis of Sagem’s expertise but with only limited participation by Polish companies. In the middle of 2008 they organised a presentation of the Ulan-21 on the military testing ground in Nowa Deba.

In 2009 in the Bumar Group also created a consortium which included PCO, PSO Maskpol, CNPEP Radwar, OBR SM Tarnow, FB Lucznik and ZM Tarnow, addressing four capability groups: personal soldier’s C3I system, uniform provision and protection, reconnaissance and command C4I system and weapons and ammunition, responsible for creating Bumar’s future weapons system based on staff requirements should an open tender be issued. The head of this initiative is Tomasz Miroslaw from Bumar. The system is also dubbed Ulan-21 but has nothing in common with the Radwar proposal. Poland’s defence industry decided that, if the Polish Army made a decision to issue a request for information or to begin an open tender, it would create its own soldier modernisation programme, based mainly on Polish solutions not foreign ones.

Remigiusz Wilk

 

and more for titan:

 

The bolt-action Sniper Rifle Alex-338is fed by cartridge 8,6x70mm (.338 Lapua Magnum). The latest material achievements, tactical and ergonomic needs of users were taken into consideration during the process of the rifle construction. Very powerful cartridge 8,6 mm enables to get long range and high efficiency of firing (high accuracy). The Rifle is designed for precision shooting to living targets at the distance 2000m and to the lightly armoured targets at the distance 1000m and for any other military missions.

Main characteristics:

  • high efficiency of firing (high accuracy),
  • low recoil force (reduction by 50% due to the muzzle brake),
  • free-floating barrel,
  • small weapon length (bull-pup system) in comparison with the rifles constructed in classical system (with the same overall barrel length in both    systems),
  • high manoeuvrability (low weight, size, centre of gravity located above the pistol grip),
  • trigger mechanism with very high reliability (low inertia of firing mechanism components),
  • bolt which is resistant for „dry” firing – without shell in cartridge chamber,
  • option for execution of rifle acc.to the Client’s requirements.

     

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

================================================================================

The bolt-action 7,62 mm Sniper Rifle "BOR" is fed by cartridge 7.62 mm x 51 of NATO standard. The latest material achievements, tactical and ergonomic needs of users were taken into consideration during the process of the rifle construction.The Rifle is equipped with a universal mounting rail for optical devices and additional set of mounting rails for other devices (such as night- vision device and other accessories). The weapon has an effective muzzle brake, folding bipod and rear support.

The Rifle is designed for precision shooting at the distance of 1200m to living targets and lightly armoured military equipment.

Main characteristics

 
  • high efficiency of firing (high accuracy),
  • low recoil force (because of muzzle brake),
  • free-floating barrel,
  • small weapon length (bull-pup system) in comparison with the rifles constructed in classical system (with the same overall barrel length in both systems),
  • high manoeuvrability (low weight, size, centre of gravity located above the pistol grip),
  •  trigger mechanism with very high reliability (low inertia of firing mechanism components),
  • bolt which is resistant for „dry” firing – without shell in cartridge chamber.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

================================================================================

The 40 mm Multi-Shot Grenade Launcher RGP – 40 is a semi-automatic, six-shot weapon using  40 mm x 46 NATO grenades. It has an integral cartridge drum with six  chambers with a length of 140 mm, which allows to use a wide variety of ammunition, including special types. The weapon is fully adapted both for right and left handed gunners. It is equipped with adjustable butt and universal mounting rail for attaching collimator sight. On the barrel cover there are three rails for mounting additional accessories. During the firing from the RGP – 40 it is possible to cover with fire an area of 20x60 meters in a few seconds at a distance of up to 400 m (600-800 m), without the loading the weapon. Taking into consideration weight, rate of fire and reliability, RGP – 40 is in the same class as the other similar grenade launchers produced in the world.

The 40 mm Multi-Shot Grenade Launcher RGP – 40 is intended to eliminate and disable manpower, destroy military devices, buildings, light armoured vehicles and create smokescreens and any other non-lethal actions.

Main characteristics:

 
  • high rate of fire,
  • effective range from 600m to 800 m (depending on ammunition type)
  • high accuracy,
  • high efficiency of firing,
  • low weight,
  • high manoeuvrability,
  • high quality of performance,
  • the possibility of using different types of ammunition.

 

 

 

 

 

================================================================================

The 7,62 mm General-Purpose Machine Gun UKM 2000is fed by 7,62 mm x 51 NATO ammunition in M13 disintegrating belt. It is produced in four versions: infantry version (UKM 2000 P with fixed butt),landing version (for landing troops- UKM 2000 D with folded butt), tank versions: UKM 2000 C –right feedingand UKM 2000 CL –left feeding.

The UKM-2000C/CL versions with electro-trigger do not have butt, pistol grip and mechanical sights and can be mounted on tanks, infantry combat vehicles and other armoured vehicles.

The 7,62 mm GPMG UKM 2000 is intended for fighting manpower, military stations and equipment on every terrain and in any weather conditions, both during the day and night.

Main characteristics:

 
  • very good tactical and technical characteristics which allow for effective firing at a distance of 1500 m,
  • high rate of fire 700 – 850 rds./min.
  • high reliability,
  • the GPMG UKM 2000 is made of high quality materials which are conformable with Polish and European military standards,
  • one of the few GPMGs constructed after 2000,  
  • it can be used in various types of Armed Forces,
  • it is equipped with Picattiny rail in accordance with MIL STD-1913 on which any optical equipment (sights, night-vision devices, grips, pointers, flashlights, etc.) can be mounted,

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

================================================================================

 

 

The WKW Tor or Wilk (Wolf) is a modern anti-materiel and/or sniper rifle which is being produced in Poland by factory Zakłady Mechaniczne Tarnów. WKW Tor stands for Wielkokalibrowy Karabin Wyborowy or Large Caliber Sniper Rifle. Its military designation in Polish army is known as the Tor. This rifle was developed between 2000 and 2004 and the first selected units in the Polish army apparently received Wilk/Tor rifles in around 2005 onwards.The 12.7mm round's specifications are standard .50 BMG; that is 2,850 feet per second and 13,350 ft-lb of energy (the 12.7mm SLAP is rated at 4,000+ feet per second.) When firing the 12.7mm SLAP (Saboted Light Armor Penetrating round), the TOR can defeat up to .9 inches of armor at 1,200 meters. 

 

 

 

Polish Land Forces want to have more than 40 thousand Titans


Edited by ShotaroPL, 02 September 2014 - 01:14 PM.


ShotaroPL #3 Posted 02 September 2014 - 12:46 PM

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and few words about MSBS:

 


Edited by ShotaroPL, 02 September 2014 - 01:24 PM.


Razor1uk #4 Posted 02 September 2014 - 01:11 PM

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The prototype MSBS rifle in the vid looks outwardly similar to the Magpul Masada carbine/rifle (which has been renamed because Israel complained). I like the switchable ejection system/method.

Edited by Razor1uk, 02 September 2014 - 01:17 PM.


ShotaroPL #5 Posted 02 September 2014 - 03:33 PM

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yeah, apparently one of the American experts on presentation of MSBS says: "It looks similar to Masada ACR but this is the thing what ACR should be". :wink:

Edited by ShotaroPL, 02 September 2014 - 03:36 PM.


ShotaroPL #6 Posted 08 September 2014 - 10:17 PM

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another movie with MSBS :)

 



Razor1uk #7 Posted 11 September 2014 - 07:26 PM

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One other question, are they generally chambered for Nato or Soviet style rounds, 5.56mm/7.62mm or 5.45/7.63mm?

Thought I'd ask after that last vid, where some of the magazine apertures seemed quite AK like - perhaps I saw an old AK in the montagé of clis though....



Animistic #8 Posted 11 September 2014 - 08:40 PM

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Poland stronk!

 

About 5.56×45mm NATO isnt that cartride proven to be bit too weak at long distances and in urban combat and also in dense forests? I would rather see future rifle have bullet with more power than that. In afganistan they often at long distance fighting prefer even old M14s/DMR with their more powerful rounds as fighting happens often with long ranges.

 

Otherwise looks like solid run of the mill modern weaponry, nothing that stands out or is that special, but does the job certainly.

 

When will Poland take in use those funny looking stealth tanks? PO-1 or something like that.



ShotaroPL #9 Posted 12 September 2014 - 03:40 PM

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yeah 5.56mm is weaker, muricans say that, but maybe they say about lighter 3,56 g model 5,56 M193. Here you can fast change barrel and take 5,56 SS109 4,0 g - thats more powerful. Maybe this second dont have this problems and its nice in long range/obstacles, i dont know. btw exchangeable barrels is nice thing cause you dont must take to battle total different weapons. When you want jump from heli you take for soldiers short barrels and when battle conditions change you need only long barrels. Dont need 2 diferent heavy rifles taking up much space (logistics!).

you talk propably about PL-01

  

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PL-01

(this is not tank but armoured fighting vehicle) A full prototype is estimated to be completed in 2016, and should the project be finalised and approved following evaluation, mass production is scheduled to begin in 2018.

I dont know if production will start, but i hope so. (money politics) cause Poland bought 3 months ago another 119 Leopards 2A5, and we waiting now for 70 AH-64 Longbows or Eurocopter Tigers and AGM-158 Joint Air-to-Surface Standoff Missile (JASSM) from muricans (this is expensive OP crap ^^)

 


Edited by ShotaroPL, 12 September 2014 - 03:51 PM.


Razor1uk #10 Posted 13 September 2014 - 07:17 AM

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With a tank/IFV/Armoured Support Vehicle concept like that, if its likely to be close to that, its no wonder some peoples nation are rushing for more power over others now, before they come online/in-service....

...let alone any other possibly still secret 'future armoured vehicle' concepts from other EU nations tank makers/developers etc.


Edited by Razor1uk, 13 September 2014 - 07:24 AM.


keyres #11 Posted 14 September 2014 - 10:01 PM

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The problem with MSBS is that it's been rumored, talked and gloated about since 2008 IIRC.

 

And I'm a bit skeptic about the PL-01 too... In 2010 there was project Anders (IMO more interesting than PL-01), and it's dead ever since.

But to be perfectly honest I'm kinda more interested in history of weaponry, so I didn't exactly follow this stuff. Maybe it was all logical decision making and good vibes :tongue:.



Razor1uk #12 Posted 16 September 2014 - 10:07 PM

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The P 01 does seem very similar in the 'kit looks to the Romanian tanks concpet running on an Turan/Turen chassis (something' between a 1970's era 'modernised' T-59 and T64 in looks and wheel spacing,) from around the '08 to '09 times.

MkH #13 Posted 18 September 2014 - 10:29 AM

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The MSBS looks like a proper modern assault rifle: straight barrel line, modern materials, fully ambidextrous, modular, simple to field strip. If the trigger and pointability are good too and reliability excellent, what more could you want? Not sure though why Poland would go with an indigenous design, when there are so many other excellent modern assault rifles available.

Edited by MkH, 18 September 2014 - 10:35 AM.


Jrgrid #14 Posted 19 September 2014 - 07:09 PM

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The sure fire video looks like a modified ACR by bushmaster.

Edited by Jrgrid, 19 September 2014 - 07:11 PM.


ShotaroPL #15 Posted 27 September 2014 - 11:21 AM

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13.09.2014

GROM Challenge 2014

distance: 20km

 

Gepard 2014


Edited by ShotaroPL, 03 October 2014 - 09:10 PM.






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