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9.3's american LTs' weakness?


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CursedPudding #1 Posted 11 September 2014 - 07:48 AM

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Is the fact that they have 25 mm frontal hull armor and similar armor of the turret. Which means pretty much every tier 7+ tank can use HE and do full damage when it goes in killing them super fast. I know that T71 already has the same weakness, Ru251 will have it too, but AMX 13 90 has 40 mm armor at front and turret WZ 131 and 132 also have enough armor, which is enough to block HE's penetration, New russian LTs won't have this weakness. Even 9.2 Chaffee has 38mm at front of the turret.

 

So, do you guys think that this is will be a weakness and balancing factor which will keep them from being too strong?. T49 and M41 mainly. Seeing how good their damage dealing potential seems to be. Or is He still too unreliable for it to be a threat? I mean, i've had a chance at using HE on T21's frontal turret and it sometimes didn't work. I'd like to hear from someone who shot more HE's than i did because i don't have enough experience using it on LTs.



ParEx #2 Posted 11 September 2014 - 07:57 AM

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I dont think lots of people will fire HE at them to be honest.

 

High Tier tanks have long reload and there is usually more than one enemy around, so I dont think there will be a HE shell loaded when  a light tank pops out. So the first hit will usually be a AP for sure.

If the enemy has enough time to focus on the light tank and switch to HE ammo, the light tank has done something wrong.

 

Plus many tanks dont have more than 2...3 HE Shells for special situations. So the ammount of HE shells in a game is quite limited.

Just think of the scouts right now, how many HE shells do the eat? How many HE shells do the german turret TDs get shot with? Not many I believe.

May change, though.

 


Edited by ParEx, 11 September 2014 - 07:59 AM.


azakow #3 Posted 11 September 2014 - 08:48 AM

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View PostCursedPudding, on 11 September 2014 - 08:48 AM, said:

Is the fact that they have 25 mm frontal hull armor and similar armor of the turret. Which means pretty much every tier 7+ tank can use HE and do full damage when it goes in killing them super fast. I know that T71 already has the same weakness, Ru251 will have it too, but AMX 13 90 has 40 mm armor at front and turret WZ 131 and 132 also have enough armor, which is enough to block HE's penetration, New russian LTs won't have this weakness. Even 9.2 Chaffee has 38mm at front of the turret.

 

So, do you guys think that this is will be a weakness and balancing factor which will keep them from being too strong?. T49 and M41 mainly. Seeing how good their damage dealing potential seems to be. Or is He still too unreliable for it to be a threat? I mean, i've had a chance at using HE on T21's frontal turret and it sometimes didn't work. I'd like to hear from someone who shot more HE's than i did because i don't have enough experience using it on LTs.

Let me remind you on the first rule of LTing: Do not get hit!

In case I get hit, it currently is 2/100 that use HE shells and this is mostly in tier 7 max matches.

Anything else is wasted energy and time!


Edited by azakow, 11 September 2014 - 08:52 AM.


ParEx #4 Posted 11 September 2014 - 10:34 AM

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For me the new Tier8 Lights will be the perfect target for my FV4202's HESH. Yeahaw. :justwait:

 



CursedPudding #5 Posted 11 September 2014 - 11:05 AM

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View Postazakow, on 11 September 2014 - 09:48 AM, said:

Let me remind you on the first rule of LTing: Do not get hit!

 

Hehe, yeah, that's a great advice, i'm trying to do that, but, i'm not that good and still have a lot to learn in the LT ways. Still, with the new LTs having such a great potential damage, i'm sure, everyone driving them will be tempted to do damage more often, which means taking more risks, for example if i know that winning 1 vs 1 against enemy medium/heavy/TD may be the only way to win a battle and i can see that i have a chance i will end up risking getting hit. Or another LT without autoloader, or just a regular medium will try to rush me when driving M41 with clip of regular ammo loaded and unloads HE on me, things might get hairy. Well 2/100 using HE sounds good lolz. I'm still going for M41 at least and it won't bother me that much even if more ppl will use HE.

 

View PostParEx, on 11 September 2014 - 11:34 AM, said:

For me the new Tier8 Lights will be the perfect target for my FV4202's HESH. Yeahaw. :justwait:

 

 T54 Lightweight will ding you :tongue:


Edited by CursedPudding, 11 September 2014 - 11:07 AM.


azakow #6 Posted 11 September 2014 - 12:12 PM

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View PostParEx, on 11 September 2014 - 11:34 AM, said:

For me the new Tier8 Lights will be the perfect target for my FV4202's HESH. Yeahaw. :justwait:

 

I have been kill by such, but also survived several times in AMX 1390 or WZ-132, so HESH is no garantee.

 

View PostCursedPudding, on 11 September 2014 - 12:05 PM, said:

 Hehe, yeah, that's a great advice, i'm trying to do that, but, i'm not that good and still have a lot to learn in the LT ways. Still, with the new LTs having such a great potential damage, i'm sure, everyone driving them will be tempted to do damage more often, which means taking more risks, for example if i know that winning 1 vs 1 against enemy medium/heavy/TD may be the only way to win a battle and i can see that i have a chance i will end up risking getting hit. Or another LT without autoloader, or just a regular medium will try to rush me when driving M41 with clip of regular ammo loaded and unloads HE on me, things might get hairy.

Patience and timing vs. temptation and taking risks, the former leads to success, the latter to destruction and frustration.

LT commanders must perform a strict housekeeping on their own HP pool at all times.

(Make sure you put your best US crew into the M41.)



Muratti #7 Posted 11 September 2014 - 07:58 PM

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I think the new LTs should worry about ramming more then HE. Im sure the E50s wont leave you alone.

CursedPudding #8 Posted 12 September 2014 - 06:33 AM

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True, true, but ramming was always a threat to LT's healthpool, and every LT can be rammed for huge damage, maybe excluding Awful Panther. Vulnerability to HE from front, is something new american LTs along with Ru251 will have, but a lot of other LTs don't have. And one doesn't exclude the other, E50 can hit me with HE for 500 damage and then ram to death. Still i think ramming will happen even less often than being shot with HE, i mean you're faster than MT and you have to keep moving.

Edited by CursedPudding, 12 September 2014 - 06:34 AM.


azakow #9 Posted 12 September 2014 - 06:49 AM

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View PostMuratti, on 11 September 2014 - 08:58 PM, said:

I think the new LTs should worry about ramming more then HE. Im sure the E50s wont leave you alone.

All LT should be worried about ramming at all times.

On the other hand, some of them shall consider ramming as an option to fight other LT.

I currently do so when Fighting AMX 13x in my CN LT. I have trained Controlled Impact skill on the driver for defense and offensive purpose. Even if you don't, those AMX 13x are always a good target for ramming once you have 20+ tones of weight on  any vehicle class.

Have a look at their weights. The "fatest" star here is the Aufkl. Panther.

Spoiler

 

View PostCursedPudding, on 12 September 2014 - 07:33 AM, said:

True, true, but ramming was always a threat to LT's healthpool, and every LT can be rammed for huge damage, maybe excluding Awful Panther. Vulnerability to HE from front, is something new american LTs along with Ru251 will have, but a lot of other LTs don't have. And one doesn't exclude the other, E50 can hit me with HE for 500 damage and then ram to death. Still i think ramming will happen even less often than being shot with HE, i mean you're faster than MT and you have to keep moving.

Really, do not worry about HE when commanding an LT.

As said before, worry about any hit.

In case of opportunity, a skilled player will shot and ram and maybe have a HE shell for you as second serving.

 

Do not be blinded by your top speed on the data sheet.

The only thing that helps when threatend to be rammed is your agility at a speed of 20-30 Km/h.

This means your driver must be trained in Clutch Braking, Off Road and for defensive/offensive in Controlled Impact.

And now you are getting to the point where you would like to have 4+ skills on you LT crew, because you will need camo for defensive and Smooth Ride offensive purposes as well, don't you.

This also tells us why AMX 13x are good targets for ramming, because most of them are "bricks on tracks".


Edited by azakow, 12 September 2014 - 08:45 AM.


Search_Warrant #10 Posted 12 September 2014 - 10:08 AM

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Indeed. love ramming LT's with WZ-132. maybe ill get T54LT for better rammer seeing as tho its top speed got increased by 10 last patch

CursedPudding #11 Posted 12 September 2014 - 08:25 PM

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Ramming LT's with LT's, didn't think of that :confused:, yeah, ramming might be more of a problem than i thought. And LT with the combination of best power-to-weight ratio and hull traverse will have the best chance for avoiding ramming, so M41 should be quite good at it :glasses:. I see that T54LT will be the new E50M of ramming among light tanks :trollface:  given how popular Awful Panther is/will still be, we can count it out.

Search_Warrant #12 Posted 12 September 2014 - 08:41 PM

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T54LT is the second highest weighted LT after the update. i hope they keep buffing its speed (and gun or somet) so i can hardcore anti scout ram them.

Garrison2012 #13 Posted 27 September 2014 - 12:45 AM

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The T37s weakness is its utter uselessness. Maybe it will better with the top gun but it earns so poorly even on a win that is long way off.

DeathByDribbling #14 Posted 29 September 2014 - 10:38 AM

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View PostParEx, on 11 September 2014 - 11:34 AM, said:

For me the new Tier8 Lights will be the perfect target for my FV4202's HESH. Yeahaw. :justwait:

 

 

You'll hit the tracks half the time and do 150 damage.

Edited by DeathByDribbling, 29 September 2014 - 11:45 AM.


dennez #15 Posted 30 September 2014 - 09:28 AM

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You should never expect to have any armor on a LT. I can't even be arsed to lookup any armor values on any LT.

Only speed, agility and camo matter (and the gun ofc).. And yes, a shitty Leopard with it's machine gun will totally rek your T37 if you get caught out.



lokkagutt #16 Posted 30 September 2014 - 11:48 AM

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View Postdennez, on 30 September 2014 - 10:28 AM, said:

You should never expect to have any armor on a LT. I can't even be arsed to lookup any armor values on any LT.

Only speed, agility and camo matter (and the gun ofc).. And yes, a shitty Leopard with it's machine gun will totally rek your T37 if you get caught out.

 

Well this basically! And to go further. Armour is really not important anyhow. "All" other attributes are more valuable\important. WOT like 2+ years ago armour was a valuable stat, but nowadays its pretty pointless. My 2 cents anyways

RNGD #17 Posted 04 October 2014 - 01:29 AM

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I ve just started with the M37 and it is broken as hell lol. I mean you can be hull down, perma-autoloader gun, insane aiming times and okish accuracy with top gun and even without perfect skills in crew and spotter set up it does 2k DPM? having 0 armor is the least they did to keep something so broken balanced. And the tier 7? it looks even worse, it does even better DPM. I played some 500 battles with t71 I could go in and have a go with a heavy tank most of the times but the rld of the clip gave time to the enemy to help the heavy tank or perhaps I would do a mistake. Besides, why even use the autoloader when you can sustain a better DPM with the single shot gun.

I will enjoy playing with this line for as long as it is not hit by the batnerf.

P.S:only 20 games in M37 and I got 1k HP dmg, 600 assistance and I only now got the large gun



Hotwired #18 Posted 12 October 2014 - 04:30 AM

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View PostParEx, on 11 September 2014 - 10:34 AM, said:

For me the new Tier8 Lights will be the perfect target for my FV4202's HESH. Yeahaw. :justwait:

 

 

Yeah.... no

 

For all the times 105mm premium HESH pens there's too many other times where it hits something that mysteriously neutralises 210mm of pen and it does naff all.

 

APCR (aka standard ammo on a FV4202) has a higher chance to do damage on anything that isn't a perfect flat, thin armour plate.

 

How many times has ANYONE been accused of ripping up a game with 105mm HESH. It's the premium shell least likely to give you an advantage in the game.



MetalManiac69 #19 Posted 12 October 2014 - 02:09 PM

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FV4202 also has HESH for regular HE ammo too (105mm pen, IIRC)

Hotwired #20 Posted 12 October 2014 - 05:21 PM

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It does.

 

The gripe is still that HESH is a very bad premium round, compared to "same damage, buffed pen" premium rounds.

 

You cannot for example use HESH where you could use standard ammo. It's not a better standard round but a better HE round and 105mm HE at T9/10 has very very few appropriate targets. Same goes for the 120mm HESH but those tanks get APCR as premium instead.






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