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Is the M41 Walker Bulldog another pure example of Power Creep?


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IH8MEDS #1 Posted 15 September 2014 - 06:31 PM

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As I'm watching QB's "review" on the M41 Bulldog, I just realized something - this thing COMPLETELY outguns Medium tanks of the same tier!

 

Now, this is not the first LT with an autoloader - the AMX 13 75 was the first, but usually you don't consider it a threat in your Tier 7 MTs.

Then came the T71, which is IMO more dangerous than the AMX 13 75, but it's still pretty balanced (AMX drivers might contradict me here)

 

But... with the M41 Walker Bulldog you have

 

1) More penetration than most of the Tier 7 MTs (bar the Panther & T-34-1)

2) Enough shells in the clip to completely waste a Tier 7 MT (which AFAIK neither the AMX 13 75 nor the T71 do not have)

 

So... really, since when do LTs hunt down MTs? Shouldn't it be the other way around?!

 

Now, really, with THAT firepower and THAT mobility... doesn't this thing make Tier 7 MTs obsolete? I know it gets much harsher MM, but it still meets Tier 7 tanks, right?

We all know that Tier 7 MTs suffer anyhow in the form of MM weight, since in Tier 9 games you have very little opportunities to actually do something, but this thing is, as I said, much faster AND has greater firepower than any of your Tier 7 MTs.

 

P.S.: I was about to also compare the AMX 13 90 against Tier 8 MTs, but in my experience they're not THAT much of a nuisance.


Edited by IH8MEDS, 15 September 2014 - 06:31 PM.


tomatoRNGmaster #2 Posted 15 September 2014 - 06:36 PM

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This is how WG deals with the fact many people don't consider light tanks to be viable any more. Rather than changing maps to allow light tanks to actually scout for their team, they just put bigger guns on the light tanks. It's kind of endearing to see just how misguided they are.

War_of_Genius #3 Posted 15 September 2014 - 06:37 PM

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U should compare LTs to MTs one tier above, since they have the same MM. Walker Bulldog <-> Tier 8 MT comparison.

MeetriX #4 Posted 15 September 2014 - 06:37 PM

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Time will tell and after that nerf/buff.:popcorn:

VeryRisky #5 Posted 15 September 2014 - 06:41 PM

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Well from the look of the stats it will be better without the Autoloader.

Joat #6 Posted 15 September 2014 - 06:42 PM

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Well, the armor on the bulldog is crap which may help a bit. I think we have to wait until 9.3 goes live to see how it really performs since all the tests have been done on the test-server which is an artificial environment.

IH8MEDS #7 Posted 15 September 2014 - 06:43 PM

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View PostGeneral_Jack_D_Ripper, on 15 September 2014 - 07:37 PM, said:

U should compare LTs to MTs one tier above, since they have the same MM. Walker Bulldog <-> Tier 8 MT comparison.

 

OK, fine, I see your point, but - this thing DOES see Tier 7 tanks, right?

 

l.e.: I'm pretty sure Comet & T43 owners would glee in sheer joy if their guns had 175 average pen...


Edited by IH8MEDS, 15 September 2014 - 06:45 PM.


Dan_Abnormal #8 Posted 15 September 2014 - 06:46 PM

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10 shell clip sounds good on paper, but you need 18 seconds to unload those into a single tank, there's no chance of shooting something for 18 seconds that will either:

 

A) just sit there and let you shoot it for 18 seconds without better angling/moving to cover.

 

B) not shoot back, and in 18 seconds likely to shoot back many times, making a full clip trade a bad idea.

 

It's a nice tank, but on the scale of insane OP power creep it barely registers when we have stupid stuff like WTF100 and T57.



VeryRisky #9 Posted 15 September 2014 - 06:47 PM

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View PostIH8MEDS, on 15 September 2014 - 06:43 PM, said:

 

OK, fine, I see your point, but - this thing DOES see Tier 7 tanks, right?

 

http://ftr.wot-news.com/2014/09/11/9-3-mm-table/

It sees tier 6 tanks in battle tier 8 battle.



IH8MEDS #10 Posted 15 September 2014 - 06:53 PM

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Quote

10 shell clip sounds good on paper, but you need 18 seconds to unload those into a single tank

 

1) My guess is that most good players will ditch the autoloader gun for the single shot one. Since the reload difference between shots is only 1 second AND you have a steady stream of fire with the normal gun... I think you will still out-DPM a Tier 7 MT

2) Why a single tank? Watch QB's review - I know that the test server is, as many have put it, a completely artificial environment, but nobody forces your hand to pump your shells in just ONE target. You can spread out the damage if you think that's for the better.



Dan_Abnormal #11 Posted 15 September 2014 - 06:54 PM

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View PostIH8MEDS, on 15 September 2014 - 06:53 PM, said:

Quote

10 shell clip sounds good on paper, but you need 18 seconds to unload those into a single tank

 

1) My guess is that most good players will ditch the autoloader gun for the single shot one. Since the reload difference between shots is only 1 second AND you have a steady stream of fire with the normal gun... I think you will still out-DPM a Tier 7 MT

2) Why a single tank? Watch QB's review - I know that the test server is, as many have put it, a completely artificial environment, but nobody forces your hand to pump your shells in just ONE target. You can spread out the damage if you think that's for the better.

 

I was answering the claims in the OP.

 

Why do I need to watch a QB review for a tank I've played myself?

 

Trading shots with something like a Comet/T-43 is just dumb beyond words.


Edited by Dan_Abnormal, 15 September 2014 - 07:38 PM.


IH8MEDS #12 Posted 15 September 2014 - 06:55 PM

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Just saying, he showcassed a perfect opportunity of spreading out the damage to other targets, not just focusing it on a single one

Dan_Abnormal #13 Posted 15 September 2014 - 06:55 PM

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I didn't mention focussing one tank, you did in the OP.

Edited by Dan_Abnormal, 15 September 2014 - 07:38 PM.


nautalihas #14 Posted 15 September 2014 - 06:57 PM

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Tier 7 mediums have always been gimped compared to other classes. LTs were superior on the tier the moment 13 75 came around.

noobwotplayer #15 Posted 15 September 2014 - 07:14 PM

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View PostGeneral_Jack_D_Ripper, on 15 September 2014 - 06:37 PM, said:

U should compare LTs to MTs one tier above, since they have the same MM. Walker Bulldog <-> Tier 8 MT comparison.

 

 

Exactly as he said. If the Walker Bulldog will outperform T8 meds, it has to be insanely OP, compared to the T71. If it will not outperform T8 meds, then it's not OP. Most of the current LTs are clearly UP, compared to other classes. This is why they are not played by the masses. Just because WG is releasing new LTs that may perform better than the old ones, it doesn't mean that suddenly LTs are OP and they will kill everything.


Edited by noobwotplayer, 15 September 2014 - 07:20 PM.


Combatbacon #16 Posted 15 September 2014 - 07:20 PM

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VK30.02D and Comet can both easily produce over 2k DMG per min, no light tank should never under any circumstances under estimate either of these especially VK or any other medium tank. No light tank can be a substitute for medium tank.

War_of_Genius #17 Posted 15 September 2014 - 07:20 PM

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View PostIH8MEDS, on 15 September 2014 - 06:43 PM, said:

 

OK, fine, I see your point, but - this thing DOES see Tier 7 tanks, right?

 

l.e.: I'm pretty sure Comet & T43 owners would glee in sheer joy if their guns had 175 average pen...

 

So u get my point, nontheless u still compare Tier 7 LTs with Tier 7 MTs?

 

I am sure Comet & T43 owners would glee in sheer joy if their guns had 240mm penetration like STA-1 or Indien Panzer. Or maybe they would like to have Tier 9 (which they meet) TD guns with 276mm pen?

So?

Comparing completely different vehicles with completely different MM on the basis of being in the same Tier is just wrong. Chaffee eats every Tier 5 MT for breakfast. POWERCREEP!!!111einseinself. Oh wait, it is a rather old tank wich can draw Battletier 11


Edited by General_Jack_D_Ripper, 15 September 2014 - 07:25 PM.


Slyspy #18 Posted 15 September 2014 - 07:26 PM

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We won't really know how the new tanks perform until they go live and all the excitment over the new toys has died down. The test server is chock full of light tanks at the moment, just as the live server will be for a week or two after release.

M1tchy #19 Posted 15 September 2014 - 07:30 PM

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Having played the Bulldog a load on test server, I like it a lot, so expect to see loads of them around when 9.3 goes live, but expect a lot of tears and a nerf pretty quickly I reckon.

 

The T49 and it's derp gun is evil. That will be around plenty as well.



DiMtopia #20 Posted 15 September 2014 - 07:39 PM

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View PostDan_Abnormal, on 15 September 2014 - 08:46 PM, said:

10 shell clip sounds good on paper, but you need 18 seconds to unload those into a single tank, there's no chance of shooting something for 18 seconds that will either:

 

A) just sit there and let you shoot it for 18 seconds without better angling/moving to cover.

 

B) not shoot back, and in 18 seconds likely to shoot back many times, making a full clip trade a bad idea.

 

It's a nice tank, but on the scale of insane OP power creep it barely registers when we have stupid stuff like WTF100 and T57.

 

came here to say this.

the clip will only come in handy when you meet solitary targets that you can outmanoeuvre and kill within one clip. and this will happen quite rarely i reckon.

fun tank? probably. OP? definitely not.






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