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Pz. Kpfw. III - Cant penetrate anything as of Oct16, 2014


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SABOTinurface #1 Posted 16 October 2014 - 06:15 PM

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I got a Pz. Kpfw. III (German tier 4 medium tank) and it's got 3.7cm, 5cm, 7.5cm cannon options.

The game seems to run on two simple parameters: Penetration & Damage. If your penetration value is greater than the target's armor (front/side/rear) where it got shot, then the shot penetrates and deals damage. If not, the dmg is discarded.

 

It's funny how the most important part - projectile speeds & range is discarded in this game, but that makes it easy for the kids.. no reticle and no caring about how fast it'll get to the target as everything travels at uniform? speed. One thing IRL is important while designing imaginary cannons though - as the caliber goes up, penetration *doesn't* go down. That's the problem behind me spending time here *typing*. (Pz. III)'s cannons are weak and it's making this tank useless. It's armor is already weak as everything seems to penetrate through.

 

3.7 was useful back when I was fighting against tier 1 tanks, it is utterly useless as it can't penetrate anything now (and it's perhaps not supposed to either, I don't know why it's even there.. anyway.. moving on...) I'm not even including its stats since it's not even worth talking about.

 

5cm was pretty useless too, as 90% of the time you shoot light tanks and you'd hear "we didn't even scratch that" "it didn't penetrate" etc etc, but it *sometimes* does the job when you manage shooting the targets in the rear. Overall, this was way less than satisfactory, as there are many low tier tanks which have no difficulty whatsoever shooting you right in the face from the front and penetrate with 2mm cannons with every shot. The 5cm cannon has the stats (AP: dmg70 penetration60) (HE: dmg90 penetration25)

(You can see these stats in battle if you hold ctrl and move cursor over your ammo selection '1' '2' '3' buttons)

 

After researching and mounting the 7.5cm cannon we've been looking forward to, the one that'll save us from the shame of dealing no dmg at all through the whole fight, what do we get: A cannon even worse than the 5cm one. Now it *always* says "it didn't go through" "we didn't scratch..." even when you pull off an absolutely brilliant ambush and score 2 hits at a light tank in the rear with AP ammo. The 7.5cm cannon has stats (AP: dmg110 penetration43) (HE: dmg175 penetration38)

 

You should look into fixing stupid *simple* stuff like these.

 

________________________________________________

Semi-off topic stuff about the game:

 

Btw fyi when you shoot a tank in the side with AP ammo, it can't be repaired on the field in 10 seconds. It takes heavy wrenches to hold a track in place so it doesn't fall and crush you while you're working to put them back together. It takes a crane to move a track that fell on the ground. And you don't do that during a firefight. An immobilized tank is as good as dead. But in here, you shoot a target in the tracks, tank takes no dmg and in 5-10? secs it's moving again. What *should* happen is, depending on the trajectory ofc, the shot should damage the tracks if it would and then move on to getting in the hull.

 

There seems to be some errors in general about armor and penetration topics too. You use an ammo that's supposed to penetrate a Pz. I C for instance in the front hull. It says it didn't penetrate, you shoot it in the sides, says it ricocheted, then the guy starts shooting you with his 2cm? cannon through your 60mm? front hull and your engine starts burning. That's just stupid. Irl when you shoot a tank in the turret with apds, it goes *up*, and any crew inside gets shreded with shrapnel, except maybe the driver. Ofc here we've got lower calibers but 7.5cm still should go through except for maybe 15+ cm steel casting. *The game* doesn't have to be close to reality. Here in a softcore game like this, it's ok to limit the dmg so ppl won't get knocked out with a single hit but wth is up with not being able to penetrate 3cm hull with 7.5cm ap ammo? That just kills the fun.

 

I've come to these conclusions in about 30+ hours game play.


Edited by SABOTinurface, 16 October 2014 - 06:19 PM.


guest273 #2 Posted 16 October 2014 - 06:55 PM

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1) +1 because you seem to have a point.

2) fuk off wall of text!

3) I've heard this tank is amazing with gold spam. That is your only option unless Junior tank companies come alive again...

 

Edit: I recommend that you play this tank in platoons with 2 tier 4 TD's or 1 arty and 1 TD - try spotting for them. Pz III is only a nice brawler if the max tier is 4.


Edited by guest273, 16 October 2014 - 06:56 PM.


Hedgehog1963 #3 Posted 17 October 2014 - 10:24 AM

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As far as the PzIII goes you do need to learn where to hit enemy tanks.  Auto aim is not your freind.

 

As for the repair system, well early on in the game -  about 20 - battles I found myself horrified at the repair sustem, particularly the way tracks repaired themselves.  I soon calmed down when I realised that this  is an arcade game losely based on tank vs tank combat.  It has very little to do with reality.

 

Yes, the PzIC.  If you put premium ammo in you can clean up.  The nature of the game.


Edited by Hedgehog1963, 17 October 2014 - 04:51 PM.


niick #4 Posted 17 October 2014 - 03:31 PM

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Block Quote

 as the caliber goes up, penetration *doesn't* go down

 

That's very interesting. Would you mind to show me real 7,5 cm KwK 37 penetration values compared to 5 cm KwK 39 L/60? Because I'm sure as shi­t it doesn't have higher penetration. It's a low velocity artillery cannon intended to fire high explosive shells and this is what you should do my dear armchair general.



Khitan #5 Posted 18 October 2014 - 12:34 PM

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With the 5cm and gold spam you can have great fun.

But its an expensive hobby. I play it on and off as its a nice challenge to play.



Hedgehog1963 #6 Posted 18 October 2014 - 07:44 PM

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Well I wasn't going to say "use premium ammo," but if you do load up 75 mm HEAT.  Kapow!

 



Ulfhedinn_ #7 Posted 18 October 2014 - 08:25 PM

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I would say that actually auto-aim is the Pz3's best friend, along with the 50mm. Imo the Pz3 is a tier 4 Cromwell, it isn't meant to sit and exchange fire, it's better to keep it moving. Never platooned in it but I've killed 10 in my Pz3 when it's been top tier with the 50mm on a couple of occasions. Go flank, lock on auto-aim, drive past them while firing, on to the next one, work up the flank till you're firing on the middle packs rears or are into their arty. Circle of death lots if you don't kill them on the drive-by. Drive by works in Pz3 when it's top tier as your front armour is very stonk, and the closer you get to them, being off to their side but heading straight on your front armour is well angled. And as you pass them you're getting onto their weaker sides & rear, just pew pew away. Gold ammo can help when facing higher tiers but if you can get on rear & sides can still do ok with normal ammo, and even with normal ammo it's one of the few tanks that can pen a Matilda or PzB2 quite easy (but there you do have to pick where you're aiming, like into the holes in the Matilda side skirts). 

 

My equipment for Pz3 is optics (to help me flank & in forward positions and so I'm better able to play scout when bottom tier), rammer (cuz pew pew works) and suspension (to stop me getting tracked as keeping moving is important). Although I guess I should probably drop the suspension for vents for a bit better view range & reload.

 

And re pen doesn't go down as caliber goes up, well that's dependent on the velocity of the shell, dictated by the length of the barrel.



Ulv_Jaeger #8 Posted 06 November 2014 - 05:13 PM

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View Postniick, on 17 October 2014 - 02:31 PM, said:

 

That's very interesting. Would you mind to show me real 7,5 cm KwK 37 penetration values compared to 5 cm KwK 39 L/60? Because I'm sure as shi­t it doesn't have higher penetration. It's a low velocity artillery cannon intended to fire high explosive shells and this is what you should do my dear armchair general.

 

I have data from WW2 ballistics: Armor & gunnery. I'll list the values WoT, 100m, 500m.

 

75L24 APCBC 43 60 55 

75L24 HEATB 87 87 87

75L24 HEATC na 115 115

 

50L60 AP        67  100 79

50L60 APC     na   96 79 <---- ballistic cap helps pen at range

50L60 APCR  130 149 108

 

So yes you're correct, the Hi velocity L60 does have better pen stats overall than the Kwk 37, however all the values in WoT are patriotic interpretations and neither gun should be as woeful as presented in WoT, with the KwK  37 75L24 being a viable anti tank gun for it's epoch, all tough suffering first strike accuracy due to the relatively hi arc and subsequent range errors.

 

The Pz.III's guns, like all the German guns, are in need of having their data updated. It's time WG stopped using 30 deg Flack ammo data, and went with something more akin to it's own Russian data using actual tank ammo.

 

The OP is correct that there are many metrics missing from the game that should take priority over Floss and Gloss, such as more detail in shell ballistics, aerodynamic differences in shell types (HEAT at range should be a night mare to aim and use), and the effects of slope vs shell type (yes AP bounces more often than APCBC) and caliber where bigger shells bounce more against sloped armour and shatter at higher velocities (Shooting a 122mm stronk shell at close range might not be the right approach after all). 



panzeraustirol #9 Posted 06 November 2014 - 05:26 PM

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I hated 7.5. I had it on Bruchwagen 2 and VK 30.01 H. The most awful gun in the game... :unsure:

XPuntar #10 Posted 09 November 2014 - 12:49 AM

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50L60 really do need a buff for T4 tanks.

 

It is just asinine that WG is so stubborn to actually balance the game.

 

And "short 88" should also be taken under serious look as it is just retarded that 3 other nations have 160mm+ pen and 240+ damage guns at tier 6, while German's tanks need to suffer from 132mm penetration if player want to use "alpha" gun on tier 6 and/or tier 7 medium tank!

 

25% of RNG only compound the effect of lacking penetration. And facing 2 tier higher tanks at tier 6/tier 7 make the experience even more frustrating.

 

Shooting tier 8 and tier 9 tanks with 135 damage gun is just pathetic and yet there is still "dings galore" unless player is willing to just spam premium ammo! (And it is still quite ineffective due to required shots to make worthwhile damage, while player is subject to "one shot kills")



Rabid_Turnip #11 Posted 09 November 2014 - 01:38 AM

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View Postpanzeraustirol, on 06 November 2014 - 05:26 PM, said:

I hated 7.5. I had it on Bruchwagen 2 and VK 30.01 H. The most awful gun in the game... :unsure:

 

It's a fun derper on the Pz.IV A, but crap above tier 3.

 

Ulv_Jaeger is 250% right when he says that basically every German gun needs a huge buff.



tumppi776 #12 Posted 11 November 2014 - 07:03 AM

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DPM wise PZIII is on par to t5 bar the pen. If it had more pen with AP it would be totally OP.

 

Using 5cm gun is your best choice. Take 10 gold ammo and rest AP. with 2.3s reload fire couple AP to see whether you can pen or not - if no then:

 

option 1) relocate and try to flank - pen is enough for the sides of most targets but never heavies. AP has pen to take all targets from rear.

option 2) switch to GOLD ammo. Still with KV-1(s)/Churchill's  you'll have to aim frontal weakspots.

option 3) keep firing AP and fail

 

Equip.: Vents, Gun Rammer, free choice

 

Pz III :> 550 games played at 56% winrate


Edited by tumppi776, 11 November 2014 - 07:06 AM.


jeffrey_mk2 #13 Posted 18 November 2014 - 11:14 AM

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I like the pziii , the gun isnt really that good but I don't care.

I use it a lot to ram other vehicles , annoy/distract the enemy.

Its quite good at ramming tanks :harp: I recently got my ace tanker.



lemthepimpmeard #14 Posted 21 November 2014 - 12:43 PM

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I have the 5cm KwK L/60 on mine, that gun is utter pants on the D.W.2 because while the Pz.III is a fast and agile little thing, the D.W.2 is a lumbering pseudo-heavy which requires a heavy diet of APCR to be useful. I wouldn't consider the 7.5cm as the penetration is too low.

 

Pz.III however, is different. Sure it isn't overloaded in the armour department (if you want that, Tilly is your girl) but it can nip around the battle putting shots into people and then bugger off somewhere else. It does require some use of APCR when bottom tier, but the 130mm pen the gold ammo gives is more than adequate for anything you're likely to face and the agility can get you out of trouble in a hurry. Add vents and a rammer to get a very fast reload, automatic extinguisher because it's German, and have fun.

 

It's the first tier IV tank I bought and I still have it simply because it's such fun to play.



knoxySR #15 Posted 31 December 2014 - 07:31 PM

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I think its a great fun tank with probably the worst gun selection in the game without a doubt.  Its great for teaching you to flank and great in tier4 until you come up agents things you cant pen without spending 2k every time you click mouse and even then its a total gamble and this gets hit with tier 6 games more then anything were it's just a tank for sitting looking at the enemy. 

 

The regular ap "supposedly" has a max of 88 pen, man no way in hell this has a 88 pen iv never ever managed once to pen a kv1 without gold. 

 

That 50cm is the best gun for it and even then its unless most of the time without gold. The view range is great as well as the turning and the speed but the thing that drives me insane is the tracks, iv never played a tank that's tracks come off as much as this.



Beast_of_Schechin #16 Posted 03 April 2015 - 12:23 PM

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This tank should fire HE exclusively when using 7,5cm. It's like mini-howitzer. Thinly armored tier-peers would melt, and you can manage to damage almost anything else - while damaging modules, tracking or killing crew.

 

When firing 5cm gun  - a lot of APCR ammo supply is advised.



Eokokok #17 Posted 03 April 2015 - 12:43 PM

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Such a pointless post... If you don't like the mechanics of an online arcade shooter not being sim-ish enough you don't play it. Not a single thing you wrote holds any value TBH - 5cm might be bad, but it still can pen most thing. Using howitzer with bad accuracy mixed with AP is a sure way for utter fail. Not even gonna bother with the rest of generic 'this game is not a sim' things you wrote.




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