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The Swedish King tiger mystery


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Biffes #21 Posted 31 July 2011 - 12:13 PM

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View Postjimboz84, on 05 July 2011 - 10:50 PM, said:

Hi folks.



The engne on this beast and the 1943 onwards Panther was the V12 Maybach HL 230 P30. This is a big engine and puts out much smoke on start up and when the engine is under load (moving the tank). I know this because I am currently restoring a Panther 'G' that I found and recovered in a river whilst swimming and on holiday in East Germany. The way the exhaust is vented through the standard exhaust pipe creates a huge black cloud above the tank which when in a hidden position is a dead giveaway. The field mod we see on the above Tiger II is an attempt to prevent this by venting the exhaust streight back and thus creating the large giveaway cloud above the tank.



So which tank is it? I reckon that it is one of the prototypes that was pressed into service at the end of the war and taken off as a prize by the French.

James

i really would like to see some photos of your Panther G.

Lepr0n #22 Posted 26 March 2012 - 03:19 PM

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oh look at that! Great pic samspade!

Zythius #23 Posted 13 April 2012 - 09:32 PM

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As far as I know "drivhjulsaxel" translates into a drive shaft or something, and not sprockets.

It's kinda sad that a lot of WW2 equipment went to waste - it is by far the most intriguing conflict in our time. It's also quite interesting how they were exploring new technologies all the time, but still weren't more advanced than big hefty v12 engines and massive carburetors (I need a Merlin engine btw..) :D Well, some had fuel injection, but that was also pretty basic.

The massive german battleship Tirpitz was sunk by british bombers in a norwegian fjord, and we used her for road work (bridges, fences, etc).

Sadzior #24 Posted 06 May 2013 - 02:54 AM

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View PostLepr0n, on 02 July 2011 - 10:43 AM, said:

Greetings. This is a great little story, and a shame in the end,as the tank was destroyed. But the mystery has not yet been solved, as it was not a normal tiger 2. I'll provide a link to the original post on the swedish tankhistorical society, but i thought in everyone's interest, to translate it, and see if someone know something of use to finding which tank it was.

Enjoy your read, and apologies in advance for possible grammatical errors and wrongs, as i translated it rather quickly.

*= my own words


Which Kingtiger did Sweden get from France in 1947?

Sweden sent a delegation to france in sep-okt 1946 with interest in buying a number of german tanks for testing. Sweden had applied for permission todo so with the Us government. The german tanks of interest was owned at the time by the french.

Upon visiting a tankdepot in Versailles they inspected 3 Panthers, and later they took a roadtrip with french officers to Normandie, where close to Vimontiere, they inspected at Kingtinger. [/size]
It was completely burnt out, and in poor condition, and was meant to be used as a duck in firing excercise. it was of no interest.

The day after howerver, they had a meeting with their french hosts, who presented the Swedish delegation with a gift of 1 panther of their choice, and that they would find another Tiger II that would meet the requirements they wanted, and that when found it would also be presented as a gift.

The swedish military attaché made several requests to hasten this in 1947, and by the end of august 1947, the French told they had know found a tiger II that was in good condition.
The tiger was at the time in Gien, south of Paris.
It arrived on the 27th of november, and after inspection it was sent to the tankschool in Skövde, where it was examinated and noted in the books.
















































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Landing in Sweden.


















































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arrived at Skövde, without tracks

It was taken into the workshop for an overhaul, and a grenade was discovered between the valvecover on top of the engie. The shop is evacuated and a team later concludes that grenade was a misfire, and its transported away and blown up. *(a way to disable/abandon the tank?)
The tank is put into shape and is being testet. After just a short period of tests, the carriersprocket? (*original swedish word drivhjulsaxel) broke so the tank could not turn. it was only possible to drive straight.

































































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Restored, driving around in Skövde, Sweden

it was suggested and decided that the 88 gun would be removed from the tank, incase Sweden could purchase ammunition that would fit and try it out.
in april 1949 it is decided to shoot at the tiger and a sherman with live ammunition. The turret was later removed and sent to another gunrange for further tests.

"I saw the gun of the kingtiger in a storage in 1950 in connection with excercies in Karlsborg", says Sten Korch (*no clue who he is). Rumour had it that Swedish Bofors had taken it and still had it in the 70's.

The original author of this story contacted bofors and asked about the gun in 1997, and was told that durin a "cleanup" of the shooting range, the gun had been retrieved and destroyed, just 2 days prior to him asking :sad:


So. In an attempt to identify the Tiger, the author penpalled with Wolgang Schneider, author of (Tiger in Combat I and II), and has one of the worlds biggest collection of tigertank photos.
The tiger should be from 1st company s Pz Abt 503, that fought south of Caen, or from Pz Abt Fkl 316, which worked under PanzerLehr regiment 190. He tried to identify the tank and came to the conclusion that it most likely was Pz Abt Flk 316 Tank no 12.


But in a later letter, Wolfgang found other photos of the tanks of Fkl 316 and could exclude this particular tank.
This means that the tank is still unidentified, but its most probably from Pz Abt 503 1st company.

*But here is the most interesting stuff if you ask me, and should be a clue to find where it belongs.
































































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The swedish kingtiger was quite unusual! It had the porscheturret, with the early version of the barrel, made in one piece,snorkel! and unusal tailpipe construction

The author is still working on this, and what better way to help him out, than by making a post here.
Nice story, methinks, and study the pictures, since its not a regular tiger II. Perhaps there is someone out there with more pictures of this tank, or stories. Since it looks quite unusal.

Cheers!


Link to original post:  http://www.sphf.se/sphf2.htm

ps: if they got the panther, and where the sherman came from, and if they too are blown to bits, is unknown sofar.


I got some intressting info about this damaged drivesprocket.
First when tiger travelled into the Sweden it was in  military workshops of the Malmen airbase near Linköping.
It was in working condition, and some of base mechanics took a unlegitimate joyride on it, with ended by collision with one of buildings.
Than final drive and drive sprocket on one side has been damaged and during further road transport to test grounds in Axvall ( later location of tank museum) it broke down.
Decission was made to tow tiger by 2 american made towing vehicles(im not sure if it was catterpillar tractors or artillery tractors).
Towing went very slow and painfull and they used sherma tanks from same convoy to help. One of those shermans broke down during tigers weight.
Finally on place tanks was used to artillery projectile testing, minefield testing (sherman, on display chatch fire during it but made it home on part of working engine)
It says that missiles and anti tank infantry weapons such as Carl Gustaf was tested on hull.
Im not sure if it possible tiger was in Karlsborg because it was a site to artillery regiment not a testing ground like Axvall, but on another hand it lies about 100 km from axvall or closer.
Its possible that he ment testing of kwk cannon by Bofors , or he mixed up locations of Karlsborg and Axvall or maybe tiger was repaired after all.
It was never raported if tiger was repaired after transport accident.

Tiger was scrapped finally and only remains in Axvall collection was turrets rear hatch with penetration marks after testing (probably dropped off turret during test shooting) and maybach complete engine with is on display (was in Axvall anyway).
Intressting thing was a KWK gun was in Bofors untill about 10 years ago and it was made some tryes to get it to museum but finally i think it went to scrapyard.
Bofors was very much intressted of parametres and manufacturing procedure of this gun ...
I got this story from Axvall museum personnel.
There was some photos showing it sliding down from road wall during towing, but i cant find them on the net...
I found one photo from towing...
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Edited by Sadzior, 06 May 2013 - 03:26 AM.


Sadzior #25 Posted 06 May 2013 - 03:31 AM

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Another photo with remaining engine and hatch
Posted Image

Mantelman #26 Posted 06 May 2013 - 12:10 PM

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View PostGies84, on 05 July 2011 - 12:55 PM, said:

thats not unusual we lost the war and had no army for a few years all the military equipment was either scrapped for resources or taken by the victors i dont even know if one of our museums got a tiger or tiger 2 but i think we dont have one but im not sure

There are one Tiger II (since 30years) and one Tiger I (since 1month) in the german tank museum in Munster.

Sotahullu #27 Posted 06 May 2013 - 04:46 PM

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Well, Sweden is quite secrective about the time during WW2 and post-war.

For example, during Lapland War couple of German planes made emergency landing on Swedens side of the Tornioriver and when officials asked about them the answer was "What plane?". And they also apparently salvaged couple German half-tracks and French tanks if it was close to border.

Paythos #28 Posted 30 May 2014 - 07:48 AM

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Sorry for diging up old thread :hiding: but anyone was looking here ?

Propably one mystery about that Tiger II looks is solved ...



riseagain #29 Posted 14 June 2014 - 11:50 AM

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That article is old and the photo I posted earlier proves the 'Swedish' TII was the one  that was photographed on trials  in Germany. The rear exhausts are unique and thus this TII was not one of the fkl (316) Tigers.




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