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The major fault of stages 1 and 3


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knightM #1 Posted 08 December 2014 - 10:04 PM

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So if you haven't figured it out yet.......

 

The amount of points you gain both for player and clan ranking is decided by your enemies. If enemy clans do not want to fight you, you will get less points and "loose". 

 

Biggest example of this in stage 1 was obviously FAME in Spain where all clans around decided to lift not to fight them (there is own thread about it).  But it was happening more or less to at least 1/4 of all clans during that stage and it will happen again in stage 3. 
Certainly it is not a good concept, having to rely on your enemies wanting to fight you to win.

 

(Stage 3 is basically Stage 1 with some multipliers cause the convoys in stage 1 had way too low point gain.)


Edited by knightM, 08 December 2014 - 10:12 PM.


kuul222 #2 Posted 08 December 2014 - 10:40 PM

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But why strong clans dont fight whit each other? Why should weaker clans want to give points to strong clans when thy know thy have allmost 0% win change.

Monster95alpha19 #3 Posted 08 December 2014 - 11:00 PM

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View Postkuul222, on 08 December 2014 - 09:40 PM, said:

But why strong clans dont fight whit each other? Why should weaker clans want to give points to strong clans when thy know thy have allmost 0% win change.

 

on one hand..you are right..if they want to get out of the way of some clans, they can...on the other hand, its kind of BS that you can Leave The Map without any penalty of time...i mean, if you want to leave the map, then you should be able to land after 2-3 days and not in the next turn ( if it allows it )

Kantti #4 Posted 09 December 2014 - 08:39 AM

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View Postkuul222, on 08 December 2014 - 09:40 PM, said:

But why strong clans dont fight whit each other?

 

Because there is no point! For example if we'd go all-in against KAZNA, the most reasonable thing they could do, would be to deny our fights and try to advance full speed to other directions. In that case they'd get battles, but we couldn't (just facing 0 chip KAZNA provinces).

Alteisen #5 Posted 09 December 2014 - 09:11 AM

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View PostKantti, on 09 December 2014 - 07:39 AM, said:

 

Because there is no point! For example if we'd go all-in against KAZNA, the most reasonable thing they could do, would be to deny our fights and try to advance full speed to other directions. In that case they'd get battles, but we couldn't (just facing 0 chip KAZNA provinces).

Unfortunately I think that everyone sensible will also do the same thing and the stage will be won by who can find more opponents to battle. 

 

Do encounters get the multipliers?

 



DrZurkon #6 Posted 09 December 2014 - 11:42 AM

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View PostAlteisen, on 09 December 2014 - 09:11 AM, said:

Do encounters get the multipliers?

 

 

Yes.

 

Click in your profile: http://worldoftanks....y/user/history/ - and do a mouse over over the points awared. You will see the formula. You can see G was 1.0 all previous games so far. It will be between 1.5 and 3.75 the upcoming eight match days. (T will stay 5.0 for all games on WM, including encounters).

 

Dr Z



Thrombozyt #7 Posted 09 December 2014 - 02:13 PM

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So what we would actually need is a clan ELO ranking for the campaign. All clans start at 2 and for a win in a landing tournament, the winning clan takes 2% of the losing clans ELO and for a win on the map the winning clan takes 10% of the clan ELO.

First two stages revolve around territory control and are used to get the ELO rankings in a reasonable order. The end of stage multiplier are awarded to clans having the most ELO instead of accumulated FAME.

Third stage has a fame point multiplier depending on the ELO of the involved clans. I suggest the sqrt of ELO1*ELO2 in order to reward battle between equal clans more. This way if KAZNA has an ELO of 15 and RSOP has ELO of 15 as well, all fights between them carry a 15x multiplier while KAZNA only gets 4x if it picks on a ELO 1 clan.

 

Et voila - incentive for big clans to fight each other in all stages (to build ELO) and especially in the last stage (to grow FAME).

 

You could actually get fancy and start the ELO ranking 4 weeks prior to campaign start to have it pre-equilibrated for the real deal and then award a FAME bonus for taking down a clan with a higher ELO (bonus would be equal to 10% of the ELO difference)



Kantti #8 Posted 09 December 2014 - 10:01 PM

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Problem there is that the map is crowded, you cannot know for sure where you can find the sought-after High-ELO opponents and if you can reach them at all as movement is slow on CW map. It takes too long to leave map and try to reland near potential high-elo enemy even with leave map -button.

LucRed #9 Posted 10 December 2014 - 04:05 AM

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There is an easier way to avoid such a situations. Just make provinces doing Fame. Fighting for provinces where some will generate more and some will generate less (indenpendent from gold amount). I was seeing many times clans avoiding us in fight or entering battle with one tank just to make us doing low fame bonus winning first time on a map.

 

Ofc... stronger clans then will fight each other for fame.



knightM #10 Posted 10 December 2014 - 12:24 PM

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View PostKantti, on 09 December 2014 - 10:01 PM, said:

Problem there is that the map is crowded, you cannot know for sure where you can find the sought-after High-ELO opponents and if you can reach them at all as movement is slow on CW map. It takes too long to leave map and try to reland near potential high-elo enemy even with leave map -button.

 

 

Well the overuse of leave map button is the main reason we have had quite a lot of issues with points ever since 2nd campaign.

 

Things that can be done to reduce the problems (apart from removing the button completely):

 

- can be used only during a specified time period, for example between 01:00 and 09:00 (so after all battles are finished and before revolts pop up), this removes the issues with leaving after loosing battle (remember world on fire?) or leaving after enemy puts chips

 

- using it places all chips into cooldown (adding 1 day between landings), additionaly the cooldown can be extended to 2 days or (what would be the best) is that you can use all chips immediately  but only on the other map (Event map - Global map), on same map they are frozen

 

Implementing specially the second rule isn't hard at all and would reduce quite a high number of issues that have been there since its introduction

 

------------------------------------------------

 

@LucRed

During "Twillight of the Gods" event the VPs were connected to provinces only in Asgaard, and result was that 70%+ of all VPs gained in Asgaard were done without a single fight, with clans just avoiding each other to get free VPs. You could also see this again now in Stage 2 with clan FPs for forts and approaches.

 

Some variant of "clan ELO" that Thrombozyt suggested sounds like the best idea so far. Note that even now you get 10% more points if you fight clan with more FPs than you, but that is way too low bonus to matter.


Edited by knightM, 10 December 2014 - 12:27 PM.


NoirLotus #11 Posted 10 December 2014 - 01:31 PM

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Clans refusing to fight is a huge PitA on this campaign.

 

Since it began, my clan managed to arrive 5 times in a battle with owner, but 3 times the owning clan refused to fight, while they had 15 chips on the territory so technical victory but ZERO fame points.

 

WG should really do something to avoid this kind of situations ...



Gharirey #12 Posted 11 December 2014 - 11:01 AM

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View PostNoirLotus, on 10 December 2014 - 01:31 PM, said:

Clans refusing to fight is a huge PitA on this campaign.

 

Since it began, my clan managed to arrive 5 times in a battle with owner, but 3 times the owning clan refused to fight, while they had 15 chips on the territory so technical victory but ZERO fame points.

 

WG should really do something to avoid this kind of situations ...

I presume the issue is a bit different in your case than for FAME or KAZNA. I would guess that a lot of your unopposed landings were due to clans using their stacks to attack neighbouring provinces where more battles were to be had rather than sitting in place. It's an obvious decision: if you stay on your landing zone you get 1 battle at best (you might even get unlucky and the finalists screw you with a draw) but if you move your stack, you are likely to find a province attacked by multiple clans where you can get 2 or 3 battles.



knightM #13 Posted 11 December 2014 - 11:05 AM

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He wrote they had 15 chips there, though if you only do a landing you can not know that.

 

I am quite sure though that this problem with clans "refusing" to fight is happening more or less to anyone, either in terms of not entering battle or moving chips away.

It's just that people from clans like mine usually scream more about it.






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